Scorn, intolerance and graciousnesss.

[Tez3]

Ok, this is a rant, turn off now if you can't be bothered to read it.

Am I alone in noticing that recently on MT posts seem to be more scornful than we are used to? It seems to me that there is an air of 'shouting' and instant criticism about many threads at the moment from wanting 10 year old boys lynched to castigating people for posting on the health forum through to bad tempered posts about peoples arts.
It's become a bugbear and I have a feeling some 'veteran' posters may not have posted for a while because of this. We seem to have more posters too with the little red bit rather than the nice green rep bit.
Perhaps it's just me, perhaps it's winter approaching but I find it a bit depressing that we can't post more graciusly and still tell it how we see it.

Rant over. :uhyeah:

I was going to post a poll with an option to say..yeah it's just you! but don't know how to lol!

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Thankfully the US only runs presidential elections every 4 years, otherwise it'd be a constant.

 

[MJS]

Ok, this is a rant, turn off now if you can't be bothered to read it.

Am I alone in noticing that recently on MT posts seem to be more scornful than we are used to? It seems to me that there is an air of 'shouting' and instant criticism about many threads at the moment from wanting 10 year old boys lynched to castigating people for posting on the health forum through to bad tempered posts about peoples arts.
It's become a bugbear and I have a feeling some 'veteran' posters may not have posted for a while because of this. We seem to have more posters too with the little red bit rather than the nice green rep bit.
Perhaps it's just me, perhaps it's winter approaching but I find it a bit depressing that we can't post more graciusly and still tell it how we see it.

Rant over. :uhyeah:

I was going to post a poll with an option to say..yeah it's just you! but don't know how to lol!

Personally, I think a little 'heat' from time to time is good for the forum. Of course, more heat is allowed in some areas such as the Study, TGD and thing of that nature, but as long as the posts conform to the rules of the forum, as I said, there is nothing wrong with a little heat.

People will disagree, no matter how much, you, me or anyone else, likes it. And again, this is a good thing, as this place would be pretty stagnant, if with every post, everyone either all said yes or all said no, with no other options in between.

As far as the lynching goes....I was part of that thread you're talking about. IMHO, I think the majority of the times, its a natural reaction, even if the person really isn't the cold blooded killer they make themselves out to be.

Another thing to keep in mind is this...this is an internet forum, where chances are, 98% of the people here will never, ever speak on the phone, speak in person or meet each other. The exception being things such as the MT Meet and Greet, people who request others to come to their school for a seminar or the handful of people that I've spoken to on the phone, or met in person, ie: other forum mods, a member who came to a camp my Arnis group was holding or a member that was a few hours away on a business trip, and I met him half way for a visit and breakfast. Other than that, I will probably never 'talk' to anyone else, other than on the forum. So...all that being said, I think there are some cases, where people need to lighten up, because they're taking things waaayyy too personally. I mean, if people are getting that upset over something that they read on a martial arts forum, man, I hate to think about how they are in real life.

Of course, if posts are that offensive to people, by all means, report them. They will always be looked at, but action may not always be taken, depending on the decision of the mods. For example...I've seen people post in a heated thread, asking why the mods havent stepped in and done something. Well, much like a police officer, they can't be everywhere all the time. So if things are being missed, they need to be brought to the attn. of the mods, via reporting the post, PMing a mod, etc.

Enough ranting from me. I'm off to cruise the forum.

 

[CoryKS]

Gracious, but you're intolerant of scorn!

 

[RandomPhantom700]

I do know at least one MT member who stopped posting for that very reason, but it was a long time ago, not due to the more recent rise in...hostile posts, I guess we'll call it?

My thoughts are that much of it is due to the current stress of the times. Facing national or global crises such as the current economic situation, there will be an underlying tension afffecting any discourse. This also serves to make subjects addressed by The Study much more heated.

Thankfully, there are some threads which are able to maintain civility, even despite its sensitive topic. This_one comes immediately to mind.

 

[MJS]

Of course, something that always leave me scratching my head is this....member A makes a rude, scornful post. Member B finds that post offensive, so he reports that post to the mods.......but then he returns fire with a rude post of his own. *Shrug* Thats never made any sense to me. Guess B wasn't that offended after all.

 

[sfs982000]

I agree that certain topics are going to generate more heat than others (politics, religion, etc....). That's not to say that you can't heated discussions and still be respectful. Differences of opinion can be a great thing and bring up points that a person wouldn't normally consider. When it comes to subjects involving the various martial arts styles like anything else there is always going to be someone out there that doesn't like the way one style does their thing (ATA TKD, being a prime example that I've seen on many forums). I study ATA TKD and have enjoyed myself so far and for where I'm at it was the best school in the area. That's not to say that I agree with everything ATA does 100 percent (but that's for another thread). I guess the point that I'm trying to make is that we shouldn't take things so personally regarding certain subjects and certainly shouldn't launch personal attacks or have to put up with personal attacks from anyone. That is one thing in my opinion that sets this forum apart from others I've looked at, was the level of maturity I've seen in alot of the postings.

 

[MJS]

I agree that certain topics are going to generate more heat than others (politics, religion, etc....). That's not to say that you can't heated discussions and still be respectful. Differences of opinion can be a great thing and bring up points that a person wouldn't normally consider. When it comes to subjects involving the various martial arts styles like anything else there is always going to be someone out there that doesn't like the way one style does their thing (ATA TKD, being a prime example that I've seen on many forums). I study ATA TKD and have enjoyed myself so far and for where I'm at it was the best school in the area. That's not to say that I agree with everything ATA does 100 percent (but that's for another thread). I guess the point that I'm trying to make is that we shouldn't take things so personally regarding certain subjects and certainly shouldn't launch personal attacks or have to put up with personal attacks from anyone. That is one thing in my opinion that sets this forum apart from others I've looked at, was the level of maturity I've seen in alot of the postings.

Emphasis mine! Couldn't agree more with that. I mean, people should be able to disagree and still be civil about it, without having to call the other person a stupid *******, or something of that nature.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Person A posts something "bad"
Person B take exception, reports said post, then publicly smacks Person A.
Person b then complains about moderators who "unfairly punished him for sticking up for his beliefs".

Person B will sometimes then go on a tear, rehashing the matter in thread after thread. B then complains of "moderator bias" or "over moderation".

B sometimes then goes to other sites and whines, being certain to leave out anything that would show them to be an idiot. Other B's join in.

B will sometimes then come back, sign up as C & D and go after A, because they are "mature".

Sometimes it's person C who sees the mod warning, believes every post is ment just for them, who launches a complaintfest at anyone they think is staff.

The dynamics of this stuff is interesting. What I find most interesting is that if the people doing most of the explosive complaining would take 10 seconds to reread what they just fired out in an emotional fit, we'd have 50% less problems.

 

[Carol]

Thank heavens for that EDIT button.

I think its saved me a pile of infractions. :lol:

 

[CoryKS]

Person A posts something "bad"
Person B take exception, reports said post, then publicly smacks Person A.
Person b then complains about moderators who "unfairly punished him for sticking up for his beliefs".

Person B will sometimes then go on a tear, rehashing the matter in thread after thread. B then complains of "moderator bias" or "over moderation".

B sometimes then goes to other sites and whines, being certain to leave out anything that would show them to be an idiot. Other B's join in.

B will sometimes then come back, sign up as C & D and go after A, because they are "mature".

Sometimes it's person C who sees the mod warning, believes every post is ment just for them, who launches a complaintfest at anyone they think is staff.

The dynamics of this stuff is interesting. What I find most interesting is that if the people doing most of the explosive complaining would take 10 seconds to reread what they just fired out in an emotional fit, we'd have 50% less problems.

I think you're about 80% of the way toward writing a script to replace us all.

 

[Jenna]

I think maybe when people believe passionately in something, they find it difficult to curb their zeal in arguing their point. I think sometimes that may come over as being ill-mannered and ungracious and but perhaps it is not always intentional?? Plus this being online-only, we have [smilies excepted] no accurate way of discerning a poster's true intention.

Of course otoh, there are genuine hostiles in every corner of every interacting society, it just happens that online forums are perhaps easy hideouts to bunker down into and launch out little hate-mortars.. boom! boom! I still like it a lot here at MT because it is one of the least hostile environments I have been on.. in my experience, other sites people's initial contact will be a badly veiled sneer for even having the audacity to exist even as a little harmless posting entity in their space.. meh!

And but yes, you are right to rant dear Tez.. see if everybody took your lead and had a little cathartic rant that was not directed in anyone's face then there should be a lot less surreptitious hostility, backbiting and general dickheadery elsewhere on the forum And so you get my vote dear Tez .. +1!! and a **Coupon for 2x FREE Drinks at the Bar**
Thank you for posting,
Jenna xoxo

 

[bluekey88]

Tez, you're not alone in your assessment of the atmosphere on MT lately.

I don't have much to add than this bit of advice I received from a mentor many moons ago.

As a counselor, he told me, we often find ourselves seeing people at their worst. They will say and do things that make you want to scream "WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH YOU!?!?!" As their therapist, we have to sit there, take it all in, help them make sense of it and help them through their difficulties and be an agent of change for them. This means we will have to say difficult things to difficult people who might not want to hear it.

Hear;s the trick he said....you can say anything you want....anything....to anyone. It's all in HOW you say it. When you master that, you'll be one hell of a therapist.

So...here I am, working on that mastery. That advice stays with me everyday. I can speak my mind. I can say what I watn...however it's my responsibility to say what I want in a way that others will hear it. Anything else is egotistical self-stroking (talking to hear myself speak),

Maybe if we all take up this practice the civility level will improve here.

Peace,
Erik

 

[Steve]

After writing the post below, I'm going to just start off saying you guys may just want to skip it. It's 3 parts rant and maybe 1 part whining. Tez, you've touched on something that I've been mulling over myself. Partly because I've specifically been trying to temper my own attitude as I've become increasingly grouchy on the boards.

What has really been wearing on me lately is how quickly people are categorized. On the boards, it's become commonplace to insult a person indirectly. Direct insults are against the rules, but indirect insults are everywhere. I can't say, "Tez, I think you're a stupid twit." That's bad. But Tez can say, "I like tea." I can then freely say, "Anyone who likes tea is a stupid twit." I'm picking on Tez because she started the thread and I happen to think that she's very nice. Replace tea with a martial arts style or a political/sociological opinion and you've got almost every thread in the study and many outside of it.

I try to speak plainly, believe it or not, and when people are insulting "around" me, it makes me crazy. That's precisely why I melted down on Big Don a few months ago, and also why I find I'm posting less often. While I know it wasn't the most mature course of action, I figured at the time I'd just lay it out rather than speak behind my hand.

Where I would once dive into a thread and enjoy discussing things on the board, I seriously consider now whether I want to even get started by voicing my own two cents, knowing that most of the responses I'll make in the thread are more to defend myself, to keep my own words from being intentionally distorted or my position from being stretched so far that I appear to be an extremist stereotype.

 

[sfs982000]

I think maybe when people believe passionately in something, they find it difficult to curb their zeal in arguing their point. I think sometimes that may come over as being ill-mannered and ungracious and but perhaps it is not always intentional?? Plus this being online-only, we have [smilies excepted] no accurate way of discerning a poster's true intention.

Of course otoh, there are genuine hostiles in every corner of every interacting society, it just happens that online forums are perhaps easy hideouts to bunker down into and launch out little hate-mortars.. boom! boom! I still like it a lot here at MT because it is one of the least hostile environments I have been on.. in my experience, other sites people's initial contact will be a badly veiled sneer for even having the audacity to exist even as a little harmless posting entity in their space.. meh!

And but yes, you are right to rant dear Tez.. see if everybody took your lead and had a little cathartic rant that was not directed in anyone's face then there should be a lot less surreptitious hostility, backbiting and general dickheadery elsewhere on the forum And so you get my vote dear Tez .. +1!! and a **Coupon for 2x FREE Drinks at the Bar**
Thank you for posting,
Jenna xoxo

Well put Jenna. It's amazing the tunnel vision that a person (myself included) gets when they're passionate about a particular subject.

 

[Jenna]

I think I would hate for more good people to leave MT because of some thoughtless, albeit prevalent posting. I would say do not leave because of the bad ones and but rather STAY because of the good ones!! I have noted quite a few people [some just new on here and some around for longer] who impress me so much because they combine a passion, an intellect and a flawless argument with common sense and a touch of personality. Yes I have seen all these things individually and but I have also noted all these traits simultaneously in several individuals posting here. And so I would say again do not leave on account of the monkeys, stay because of the wise owls.. that is just my Confucius-abridged philosophy for the day And anyway, doesn't a smidge of ill-manners create controversy, drive up posts and then translate into quick-hit site ranking and all that stuff? I do not know, maybe that is cynical? Jenna x

 

[Tez3]

It's not the heated arguments or disagreements that bother me as most will know I'm not adverse to a good argument but it's more the scornful tone of some posts, it's not even on the argumentative ones. It's not the passionate arguments or that people feel strongly as most of the things I find like this are on threads that aren't about issues at all.
I don't mind a clever insult or put down to be honest, what I can't stand is the little snide comments that seem to be creeping in. Someone posts a video of themselves doing someone, it may not be good it may even be laughable in our eyes but whereas tactful, constructive comments were posted now some seem to be downright scornful. The poor poster who maybe is lamentably, woefully bad but has tried their best feels totally gutted instead of being encouraged to find out how to do things properly. It's possible to be totally misguided but be genuinely trying to do something.
It's the same with some of the arts threads, we all do things differntly even within same styles but the scorn is creeping in there too. It's perfectly possible to have opposing views and express them without it turning into a snidefest! Things like the ages of black belts are going to to have different possibly passionate views but one can say 'I hate this with a passion' without another saying 'well how could you possibly understand, your style is pants anyway'. Another thing is posting up a query and someone says well how stupid of you to be asking that. If you think it's stupid to ask for advice why say so, have a bit of tact and ignore. Why make someone feel bad needlessly?

I do love MT, thats why I stay and why I care.

 

[Ken Morgan]

I understand where TEZ is coming from, and I believe what everyone else has said holds merit, we can get very passionate about certain subjects, nationality, religion, politics and the like. I don’t see this forum any different then any other in that regard. There are misunderstandings and there is down right nastiness all over, the nature of impersonal communication.

One thing I look at is the “Thanks” and “Thanked” scores. We I see someone who posts a great deal but can’t be bothered to thank someone for a good post, or like wise isn’t thanked for many posts, I wonder why. It may not have any value, but I do wonder.

 

[Tez3]

There's many brilliant posters on here and they can tell you how completely wrong they think you are, why they think that way, what they think and why they think all in a civilised post that makes good reading. It makes you think to rise to the challenge of answering them in a like manner. On the arts threads they can explain how you have got things the wrong way round or whatever but still encourage you. The majority are like that thank goodness!
I know we are the 'internet' etc but we are a wee bit special here on MT!

 

[Stac3y]

Someone posts a video of themselves doing someone,

Um...Tez....I think that may be on a different forum. :uhyeah: