School Administration no longer reasonable?

[Ceicei]

There have been more and more accounts of "school administration" seeming to throw reason out and not using common sense. The list of stories go on and on and on.

The latest to the string is this story on CNN is a student being punished for relieving himself in classroom because his teacher refused to give him a hall pass to go to the bathroom. Why should he be punished if it is the teacher who wouldn't allow him to go?

http://www.cnn.com/2007/EDUCATION/05/01/classroom.urination.ap/index.html

For once, I'd like to have the media say something good about school administration. It often appears that the worst stories are frequently shown. It is coming to the point I actually am getting tired of checking the education section.

- Ceicei

 

[terryl965]

Our media like most folks only know how to responsed to bad moments. The good ones are not headline material.

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

Our media like most folks only know how to responsed to bad moments. The good ones are not headline material.

Yes all of the good material that school administrations do generally is mildly reported on if at all.

 

[jdinca]

There have been more and more accounts of "school administration" seeming to throw reason out and not using common sense. The list of stories go on and on and on.

The latest to the string is this story on CNN is a student being punished for relieving himself in classroom because his teacher refused to give him a hall pass to go to the bathroom. Why should he be punished if it is the teacher who wouldn't allow him to go?

http://www.cnn.com/2007/EDUCATION/05/01/classroom.urination.ap/index.html

For once, I'd like to have the media say something good about school administration. It often appears that the worst stories are frequently shown. It is coming to the point I actually am getting tired of checking the education section.

- Ceicei

It's actually worse than that. The teacher told him to go in the corner and pee in the bottle and told him he would have him suspended if he left the classroom without a pass. The teacher was transferred to another school, while the student was suspended for five days.

 

[Kacey]

Our media like most folks only know how to responsed to bad moments. The good ones are not headline material.

I think Terry has it nailed. Good stories are much less likely to be interesting, in the sense of news today.

 

[MJS]

So, let me make sure I'm understanding this corrctly.

1) Student states that he needs to use the bathroom.

2) Teacher refuses to let student leave, threatening no pass and suspension.

3) Student goes to the corner on the teachers suggestion and urinates in a bottle.

4) Student is suspended.

5) Suspension stands, teacher is suspended w/pay and is being transferred to another school.

As always there are questions that are not in the article. I'm curious as to why the teacher wouldn't let the student leave. Seems pretty cruel to not let someone use the bathroom. IMO, the teacher should be fired, not transferred. Transferred? Why, so he can possibly do the same thing to another student? Transferring someone is not a solution. Its a temporary fix, but this is an issue that needs to be resolved.

Mike

 

[jdinca]

So, let me make sure I'm understanding this corrctly.

1) Student states that he needs to use the bathroom.

2) Teacher refuses to let student leave, threatening no pass and suspension.

3) Student goes to the corner on the teachers suggestion and urinates in a bottle.

4) Student is suspended.

5) Suspension stands, teacher is suspended w/pay and is being transferred to another school.

As always there are questions that are not in the article. I'm curious as to why the teacher wouldn't let the student leave. Seems pretty cruel to not let someone use the bathroom. IMO, the teacher should be fired, not transferred. Transferred? Why, so he can possibly do the same thing to another student? Transferring someone is not a solution. Its a temporary fix, but this is an issue that needs to be resolved.

Mike

I agree, there's got to be more to this story. Regardless, the teacher, and the school handled the situation inappropriately.

 

[KeeblerElf]

IMHO, I think the information lacks many facts. Such as is this the student that asked to go to the bathroom during every single class and wouldn't return for fifteen minutes? When I was in high school and middle school you couldn't leave the room to go to the bathroom unless it was study hall. You were expected to use the bathroom between classes or during lunch. I don't think that is unreasonable. As for the whole bottle thing, I had teachers who would say stupid things as a joke expecting us to have the intelligence to not take it at face value. The question is, was this a kid who decided to do something stupid because they didn't like what the teacher said? I don't know many people (if any) that if they were told to relieve themself into a bottle would actually do it. The majority would look at you like you are insane and then sit quietly until they would be able to use the actual bathroom.

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

Clearly the teacher and the school board are at fault here but I would like to hear the whole story rather than a quick blip that just has the overt facts.

 

[bushidomartialarts]

I'd be interested to hear the context. I can't imagine any teacher who wasn't looking to get fired actually telling some random kid in earnest to pee in a corner. Teachers as a rule have more sense than that and too much to lose.

I could much more easily imagine a kid pushing a teacher, the teacher making an offhand, unwise comment, and the child essentially one-upping the teacher.

I'm not saying one or the other is the truth in this case. I am definitely suspending judgment in the absence of greater context.

 

[Touch Of Death]

The student could have always used the bathroom prior to class just like all the other children.
Sean

 

[Ping898]

The student could have always used the bathroom prior to class just like all the other children.
Sean

Sometimes there are other issues that make that not enough and if his school was anything like my high school, you don't have enough time to go during the break and still make it to class on time and going suring lunch may not be enough as your lunch could be as early at 10am or late as 1:30pm...

 

[Touch Of Death]

Sometimes there are other issues that make that not enough and if his school was anything like my high school, you don't have enough time to go during the break and still make it to class on time and going suring lunch may not be enough as your lunch could be as early at 10am or late as 1:30pm...

Or it could be an ongoing issue with this child. The teacher may know or think he knows what is happening, and the student took the dare. The fact that there is an off chance the kid has a real medical problem is cause for concern, but I just think the teacher underestimated the kid's tenacity.
sean

 

[MJS]

Sometimes there are other issues that make that not enough and if his school was anything like my high school, you don't have enough time to go during the break and still make it to class on time and going suring lunch may not be enough as your lunch could be as early at 10am or late as 1:30pm...

I agree with this 100%. Considering that you have a short time to make it from one class to the next, fitting in a bathroom visit in addition to possibly needing to go to your locker, and make it to your next class, could fall over that short amount of time they give the students.

Or it could be an ongoing issue with this child. The teacher may know or think he knows what is happening, and the student took the dare. The fact that there is an off chance the kid has a real medical problem is cause for concern, but I just think the teacher underestimated the kid's tenacity.
sean

Good points, but unfortunately, due to the limited contents of the article, we may never know those answers.

Mike

 

[Empty Hands]

Separate from this particular incident, the rise of zero-tolerance policies has made school administrations unreasonable by default - even when they don't want to be. We've all heard the stories, like the kid suspended for saving a girl's life by using his asthma inhaler, or the gradeschooler suspended for bringing a butter knife in his lunch. These policies are terrible, but unfortunately it is a lose-lose situation for the schools. Without the policies they invite excess liability in a sue-happy environment, with the policies the inevitable travesties of justice occur. We as a nation need to find a way that the schools can let these policies go and become reasonable again without being destroyed by lawsuits.

 

[bushidomartialarts]

Separate from this particular incident, the rise of zero-tolerance policies has made school administrations unreasonable by default - even when they don't want to be. We've all heard the stories, like the kid suspended for saving a girl's life by using his asthma inhaler, or the gradeschooler suspended for bringing a butter knife in his lunch. These policies are terrible, but unfortunately it is a lose-lose situation for the schools. Without the policies they invite excess liability in a sue-happy environment, with the policies the inevitable travesties of justice occur. We as a nation need to find a way that the schools can let these policies go and become reasonable again without being destroyed by lawsuits.

Agreed. I don't think there's an instructor in here who hasn't winced when advising a student to not whack a bully who obviously needed it -- simply because the in school repercussions have become too extreme.

 

[MA-Caver]

Separate from this particular incident, the rise of zero-tolerance policies has made school administrations unreasonable by default - even when they don't want to be. We've all heard the stories, like the kid suspended for saving a girl's life by using his asthma inhaler, or the gradeschooler suspended for bringing a butter knife in his lunch. These policies are terrible, but unfortunately it is a lose-lose situation for the schools. Without the policies they invite excess liability in a sue-happy environment, with the policies the inevitable travesties of justice occur. We as a nation need to find a way that the schools can let these policies go and become reasonable again without being destroyed by lawsuits.

Heh... now-a-days it's a lawsuit happy world. When I was in the lower grades during my school years, paddling was the thing to do when a kid was disruptive, fights were taken care of by visits to the principal's office and various punishments (paddling -- usually and/or 1-2 days suspension -- longer if you resisted a teacher trying to break it up ... kinda like resisting arrest ) being a smart-alec to your teacher got you writing lines and so on. Once in a while the parent was notified and usually it was because of something serious... really serious... the kid was suspended and was not allowed back in school until a note was signed by the parent that the kid got " a good talking to..." and/or a quick one on one meeting with the principal to resolve the situation. The principal and teachers could take care and discuss matters of the child/teenager without worry of the words: "... well we'll have a talk with our attorney ... " coming up from the parents.
In the case of the kid being denied going to the bathroom for whatever reason... well (again) in my days of school disruptive students were usually accompanied by a teacher while another teacher would watch the rest of the class... this ensured that the student wouldn't somehow "forget his/her way back to class when they're done".
I'll agree that the whole mess was not fully reported and what facts there are... the handling of the situation was inappropriate.

Good news is usually reported and it's there if you look for it. Often times it's not but ... it's still there.

 

[BrandiJo]

sounds like a 5 day vacation
​

 

[Ceicei]

This is the story of a older teen (19) who paid $70.00 to punch another person (from the same school) and posted the videoclip on his myspace site. His school suspended him.

The story didn't say whether the deed was done on school campus. If it was, then I can understand the suspension. If the action was taken off-campus, then why is the school getting involved in suspending someone for something that happened elsewhere?

Does anyone know more to this story?

http://www.deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,660217459,00.html

On a general theme: I'm still pondering the reach of academics and the workforce into the behavior of students/employees if said action/pictures did not take place on their properties or supported functions.

- Ceicei

 

[Ping898]

CC - I think the arguement that is being made for extending their reach is that the events have an impact on the learning environment and sometimes they do, but in the instance you cited there, based upon the information provided, seems like a couple kids goofing off and the school should have stayed out of it....