Saber Form

[Seabrook]

The set is bogus.

Here's a Praying Mantis set... Yan Qing Dao.
This is a teacher from Taiwan.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SEMirBgcC0A

Here's another Praying Mantis set ... Moi Fa Dao.
This is a student.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gJmznS8eVv4

Here's a Jet Li clip from WAY back in the day doing Wushu Dao.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qP34fE-WLPc

Xingyi Dao.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LU0RhruNwdc


Look at how they all play the sword differently but there are certain characteristics used by all of them that are the same.

Two things:

(1) Why did you say "wow" initially and then change your mind and state "the set is bogus"?

(2) The 2nd and 4th clip didn't impress me much, although I liked the first clip a lot and Jet Li's somehwat (3rd clip).

 

[Seabrook]

A number of the postures he perform don't exist in any other broadsword form I've ever seen - and I've seen a lot of them. His "coil right" and return to fighting postures or making a cut is incorrect as the spine of the blade should actually touch the back of the left shoulder when the coil is executed, positioning of the free hand is out of whack in many places...

No worries.

Thanks! Those were interesting observations.

 

[Seabrook]

Yes, I wasn't sure that he was trying to use a two-handed grip...it sure looked like it. The dao is a single-handed weapon and is never gripped with both hands (on the grip) as this would really foul up it's maneuverability, and maneuverability is key to effective use of this weapon.

One of the features of the Chinese broadsword is that it is whipped in very close to the body (the spine of the blade often touches the body) and then cuts out quickly and returns back close to the body as a preparation for another cut or defensive gesture. In the film, it isn't being whipped in to the body properly-

I know this form, and practice it a lot as well.

These are FANTASTIC observations Sifu. I never realized that the dao should NEVER be gripped with both hands on the grip. Also, the importance of whipping the dao back close to the body after a cut makes a lot of sense.

THANK YOU.

BTW - my primary art is American Kenpo Karate (6th Degree Black) although I still practice my kung fu a lot. What we need is a huge cross-training camp where both you and I are teaching....I would be interested in learning fundamental dao movements from you.

Here is my website:

www.seabrook.gotkenpo.com

 

[Seabrook]

If you think that sword is heavy try a two-handed broadsword. The presentation of this particular form lacked proper stances, balance, and in my opinion had absolutely no application to it. It looked like a combination of pieces of sword techniques from many systems thrown together without thought for proper body alignment, weapons alignment, balance, or application. As a presentation I will admit it has entertainment value, its obvious he has worked his flexability and such, but it doesn't look anything like true CMA to me. I'm not trying to down his skill or teaching ability, but you asked for our opinions of that video and I have given mine.

For what its worth.
7sm

No worries....that was GREAT feedback and exactly what I was looking for.....SPECIFICS.

 

[clfsean]

Two things:

(1) Why did you say "wow" initially and then change your mind and state "the set is bogus"?

Because unfortunately sarcasim doesn't translate well through the net... hence the use of ellipse's (... comment ...) & I should've used smilies... my bad.

...wow ...

(2) The 2nd and 4th clip didn't impress me much, although I liked the first clip a lot and Jet Li's somehwat (3rd clip).

They weren't there to impress. They were there to show different people, different styles all doing different sets with the dao, but sharing the same basic principles for the dao.

 

[Flying Crane]

What is the history of this set? From what system does it come?

 

[pstarr]

BTW - my primary art is American Kenpo Karate (6th Degree Black) although I still practice my kung fu a lot. What we need is a huge cross-training camp where both you and I are teaching....I would be interested in learning fundamental dao movements from you.


That would be a lot of fun! Looks like you're out on the east coast and I'm stuck in the cornfields of the Midwest, though....

 

[Seabrook]

What is the history of this set? From what system does it come?

Here is the website:

www.northernblackdragon.com


Who here knows of the Black Dragon system?

 

[clfsean]

I rummaged through his web page the best I could. Found nothing definative about his training other than he says he teaches pieces of different styles (Hung Ga -- Tid Sin Kuen & Fu Hok, Wing Chun -- Sil Lum Tao, Praying Mantis, Louhan, etc...) & then what looks like things he created on his own.

 

[Flying Crane]

I don't know anything about the Black Dragon System.

I did look around on the website a bit. I'm not sure what to think, exactly. It seems like he is trying to make the Chinese Arts into a very mystical and spiritual thing. While I do believe the martial arts can take on a spiritual side for the individual, the way it is done on the website seems forced and overdone to me.

It's not clear exactly what he studied, and I didn't see any mention of who his teachers were. Lineage isn't everything, and if they were people in China I probably wouldn't recognize them anyway, but usually people will list that to show some form of legitimacy. I found it odd that it wasn't listed, or maybe I just missed it somehow.

He listed a number of sets that he teaches, many of which I am not familiar with. That doesn't mean they are not legit, of course. I did notice the Wing CHun sets, and I think Tiger/Crane, and some Tai Chi and Bagua but don't know anything about the rest. I didn't see any clear listing of where the Dao form comes from. It's hard to understand if he is teaching a complete system or systems, or bits and pieces of several. Many of his descriptions of what he does are very vague. Not much real, concrete explanation of what he is doing.

Here is my honest opinion and impression: This man may be a very talented martial artist and instructor. I can't claim a high enough level of expertise to make a judgement on his skills based on a website and a few videos. But given the presentation on the website, with all the mystical stuff and how vague the rest of it is, if this was my first introduction to this teacher, I would probably look elsewhere.

If you have trained with him and you feel the training is good, then stick with him. You have a solid enough background in other arts that you should be able to make a judgement for yourself whether or not you feel the training is beneficial. I just find the presentation and the material to be odd, and at least unusual. Keep in mind: there are MANY MANY MANY different Chinese arts. Some of them are extremely odd and unusual and might fly in the face of what we might otherwise consider to be the "standard and proper" way things are to be done. Tong Bei (White Ape) is a good example. When done well, it looks like a guy running around and spastically throwing his arms out in the middle of having a seizure. Very strange, yet I can understand how it would be difficult to deal with, if you are on the receiving end of it. I think there are many arts in China that we have never yet seen here in the West. What this man is doing might be one of the more rare systems. Like I said, I just find his website presentation odd, and not my cup of tea.

 

[7starmantis]

I trained in "a" black dragon system as a kid. It sounds alot like this one. I have no problem with systems people have developed from their training, I just want to see you use it. As of yet I have seen nothing to show me application and usable skill from watching that video. Now, I dont doubt he has skill, it just doesn't appear to be traditional CMA and thats ok. But your posting it in a CMA section of the forum where people are going to be viewing it from a CMA background. It certainly is not traditional kung fu and lacks many of the principles found in CMA. Other than that, I have no problem with it.

7sm

 

[Seabrook]

If you have trained with him and you feel the training is good, then stick with him.

I run an American Kenpo Karate school in London, Ontario and have been running the school since 1995. I am a 6th degree black belt in American Kenpo under Larry Tatum, so Kenpo is my priority.

I haven't trained with Chau nor continued to cross-train in Kung Fu since 1995, as I left for a variety of personal reasons. I do, however, continue to practice all that I learned from Chau.

Thanks for your honesty about the website.

 

[Seabrook]

I trained in "a" black dragon system as a kid. It sounds alot like this one. I have no problem with systems people have developed from their training, I just want to see you use it. As of yet I have seen nothing to show me application and usable skill from watching that video. Now, I dont doubt he has skill, it just doesn't appear to be traditional CMA and thats ok. But your posting it in a CMA section of the forum where people are going to be viewing it from a CMA background. It certainly is not traditional kung fu and lacks many of the principles found in CMA. Other than that, I have no problem with it.

7sm

Cool....thanks.