Hwa Rang Do is a great, comprehensive style. I like it very much. So I hesitate greatly to so freely criticize its founder as you and others do.And we already know that Joo Bang Lee lied like a cheap carpet about so much of what he did, who he trained with, his background and so on. His fairy tales about learning the secret sacred millennia-old warrior arts of the mystical-mystical Hwarang were just that, fairy stories. He can certainly fight, no doubt about that. And he's turned out lots of good people. But he has no credibility when it comes to history. I'm sorry, but that's just the way it is.
Shesulsa, take a closer look at what I wrote. I didn't say "They don't have skills." I didn't say "They can't turn out good students." In fact, I very explicitly said just the opposite.
I don't see where I said you said this. Please don't do this again - twist or create my words and spit them back to me. It isn't polite and it's wrong - calls upon that moral compass you're thumping here. Am I misreading your intent? You're using quotation marks which implies I said those things and I did not.
I'm saying that they lied about where they got what they got and got caught at it. Lies are not the truth no matter how good they make a person feel. It's not "respect" to accept lies as the truth when the evidence is there in front of you. It's evil. It's not "bashing" to point out where someone has told a lie and to refuse to smile and go along with it.
Well now, there's refusing to smile and go along with it and then there's blatant name-calling. You'll excuse me while I smile and ... you name-call. Please see my first paragraph.
What the hell does this have to do with the argument? What is it doing here?Blacks are not inferior subhumans no matter how many Klansmen fervently believe otherwise.
The Holy Father, the Holy Church, human decency and a millennium and a half of tradition and Holy Doctrine said that the Earth was fixed in the center of the Universe, and the Sun revolved around it. Galileo was right to say "It still moves" even though everyone respectable said otherwise.
And Joo Bang Lee did not learn two thousand year old secrets of an extinct sect of Super Hwarang Warriors. He and his brother made that story up as has been documented elsewhere. It doesn't detract from his creation. But it does make him unreliable with regards to his personal honesty. It's sad, but that's the only way to call it.
This isn't being "vehement". It's not attacking you, your martial arts or the Korean peninsula and the people who live there. It's a matter of plain honesty and integrity. Recognizing the important and valuable things and not mixing them with lies increases the worth of those accomplishments. Adulterating them with fraud and falsehood cheapens them and tarnishes their good name.
You're not the first one to speak so freely about the Lee Brothers. If you noticed, I have often referred the rare HRD inquirer here to www.hwarang.org and www.dsystem.com to read carefully the accounts of others whom have been ostracized and legally sued by the Lees.
How lucky others here are to be able to discuss their art. Some in the non-WHRDA camp have been sued for even professing to teach the HRD syllabus. I would not dream of potentially endangering others or myself on this leg of the non-WHRDA faction.Yeah but no one here is saying hwa rang do sucks! They're just saying that some tall tales that started getting spread around in the 1980s were prolly just that: tall tales. When someone wants to tell me about there art, I give a lot more creedence to people that actually talk about their art. The talk about what their forms are like and what stuff they do. The people that talk about some mythic or spiritual or esoteric stuff leave me with serious doubt. You like to talk a lot ma'am based on how much you hang out here, but the fact that you don't talk about your training means your point of view hasn't done much to change my mind. Peace out.
You're not the first person to address me for not discussing my training much. There are several reasons to that. The most important reason to me is the one above. There are plenty of people pointing fingers in the direction of doubt. Why must I do it? Why must my teacher do it? The questions are there. The testimony of others is there. The techniques, forms, approaches are there. Once again, I need to say what? and why? So I may be sued? So my teacher may be sued? others in our line may be sued? Sorry. I really don't think so. If you don't have respect for that, that's fine with me. I'm not here to earn anyone's respect, really. I am not out to change your mind.
I came here to learn a little, share a little, chat some, and mostly have fun. I am limited by my choice, but ... I'm okay with that. I assume that if Bob Hubbard, the owner here, has a problem with that, he'll have a discussion with me.
And if anyone here who attended the '06 Meet and Greet is honest, they will tell you I have not trained hard in a while (personal and health reasons), I'm overweight and I am no great talent. I've never claimed to be a great talent - in fact I'm usually the first to acknowledge that I'm not. I am no LEE, by any stretch of the imagination.
Your premise, though, is interesting. You said:
andWhen someone wants to tell me about there art, I give a lot more creedence to people that actually talk about their art. The talk about what their forms are like and what stuff they do.
What is it you think I'm trying to change your mind about? Does it bother you that I remain outwardly neutral? Or rather ... 'unimpress' you?but the fact that you don't talk about your training means your point of view hasn't done much to change my mind.
Frankly ... that's too bad. I'm not here to impress anyone nor am I here to change anyone else's mind. Clearly I've miscommunicated my intent here ... I stated some vague opinion on the sulsa/ninja connection and martial art origins in general. I also stated my opinion on people in general going back and forth on origins. I never said I felt anyone here was bashing my teacher, the Korean people, etcetera. A few people took my statements to be defensive ones or construed them to think I took strong offense at the statements made here. I do not.
Welcome to MT.