Ron Paul Defends Wikileaks

[LawDog]

Bruno, the shadow man.
Right or wrong means that one will not turn against their country but will instead fix any and all proplems within it. The most powerful weapon of change in this country is a thing call "voting"
The truth should stand the sunlight however not for personal gain.
Buy the way, what / how many types of political groups do you belong to?

 

[crushing]

Bruno, the shadow man.
Right or wrong means that one will not turn against their country but will instead fix any and all proplems within it. The most powerful weapon of change in this country is a thing call "voting"
The truth should stand the sunlight however not for personal gain.
Buy the way, what / how many types of political groups do you belong to?

Don't you think an informed voter is better than an ignorant one?

Well, maybe not better for many politicians and government agents and beaurocrats, otherwise they wouldn't have their panties all in a bunch over increasing transparency.

 

[Empty Hands]

Today they do not have to be physically within this country but, using their electrocs, did enter into the US of A. They did entered into computers within secured locations inside the US of A.

Pfc. Manning, the leading suspect who will be charged with the release of the information, was an analyst stationed in Iraq who had access as part of his job to SIPRNET, where the documents supposedly came from. He apparently brought in CD-Rs with music on them, erased the music, and then copied the docs to them (if true this reveals grossly inadequate information security protocols - really basic stuff).

There was no hacking, no shady foreign nationals racing to beat the detection clock, or access routed through 7 proxies. Manning had access to the information as part of his job, and Assange had nothing to do with the data acquisition. Much like Woodward and Bernstein, he received the information after it was stolen which is not a crime in the US.

 

[Bruno@MT]

Bruno, the shadow man.

Meaning what?

Right or wrong means that one will not turn against their country but will instead fix any and all proplems within it. The most powerful weapon of change in this country is a thing call "voting"

I am not arguing that leaking the cables was the right thing to do or not.
I am arguing that Assange is not guilty of anything.

The truth should stand the sunlight however not for personal gain.

Do you think that the person who leaked the information has gained anything from it?

Buy the way, what / how many types of political groups do you belong to?

None. Every election I make up my mind again to see who deserves my vote or which party I think should get power, based on the situation at the time of the vote and whether they achieved their previously stated goals. If 'your party' gets your vote no matter what, then they can safely ignore you or what you want. If you are a card carrying republican or democrat, then imo you don't get the point. NO party should feel like they own you. They should feel that you own them.

For example, this election I voted over 1 issue that has been crippling our federal government for years now. This election I, and many like me, voted for the Flemmish Nationalists in order to force the issue to the table and solve it one way or the other. And it worked. They're still fighting it out at the negotiations table, but progress is made. Albeit slow. Before that I voted a similar party that did not live up to its expectations and the country functioned like a lame duck before the government fell.

Another important point imo is that I prioritize. For example: While I have outspoken opinions about early release for good behavior for criminals, no party's position on that issue has ever influenced my vote because imo the issue is far less important than things like the economic situation at the time. Things like whether a congress man is gay or not, or christian, or has a mistress have no influence on my vote (and the votes in general) because they don't matter for the purpose of running a government office.

To summarize: I have no allegiance to any party. I voted for almost all of them (except the right wing racist bigots aka the Flemmish Block) at one point or another, based on whom I thought should get my vote at that time and place for the purpose of deciding the direction the country was taking.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Wikileaks shows the folly of the Hamiltonian Imperialistic America. It shows the folly of thinking things known by thousands are 'secret'. It shows the folly of a lot of things.
I'm fine with it.

If they want security, they should take the advice we give out kids on Facebook.
Don't say it if you don't want it known.

The outcry about Wikileaks is the cry of the guilty child wanting his mom punished for buying the cookies in the first place. Maybe rather than complain about the horses getting out, they should build a better corral?

 

[Makalakumu]

The most powerful weapon of change in this country is a thing call "voting"

How can we vote if so much of what the government spends our money on is secret?

 

[billc]

about Assange, http://bigjournalism.com/pjsalvatore/2010/12/21/irony/

 

[Makalakumu]

about Assange, http://bigjournalism.com/pjsalvatore/2010/12/21/irony/

Read the comments on the this article. They say a lot about the state of liberty, truth, and justice in this world.

"What a thin skinned fellow. Somehow I get the feeling he was given lots of swirlies in middle school and had his lunch money stolen all of the time. And so this brave and courageous man who wants to get back at bullies by being a beta-male still can't take it when it's thrown at him. I wonder how he would fare in American prison....? "


"This weenie's 15 minutes of fame is just about up, methinks. Tick tock, mate.

At the end of the day, Assange is just a effeminate little guy with a website, not a James Bond villain. There will be other cranks with other websites. The real problem - the leakers themselves - won't go away so easily. The only way to fight them is for the Pentagon and State Department to get serious about what's going on inside their houses, not just at the front gates. It'll happen eventually, but there will be some growing pains along the way.

Also, it would be nice if our journalists wouldn't constantly aid and abet our nation's enemies. I'm not very optimistic about this one, though. Apparently, a press card trumps allegiance to your country. "


"Hoist by his own petard This is what I call social justice."


"I don't really care about his sex life, but he's a weaselly little a$$-clown that can dish it out but not take it. The thing that bothers me most is WTF was the US Army thinking letting that low-life PFC have access to all those military secrets?"


"Instant karma’s gonna get you.
Gonna knock you right on the head.

You better get yourself together
Pretty soon you’re gonna be dead.

What in the world you thinking of?

Well, just shine on there, Julian. Hmmm, Julian.....there's some cosmic significance there, I think.
Quick, some bong-hitting DU troll figure it out, will ya"


"Every aspect of this metrosexual pissant's life should be uncovered"


"What a scum bag. He probably walks around with this smug smile on his face all day long thinking how great and important he is. You'll get yours Julian. Count on it"


"Too funny so it's OK to release the Gov.s mail but not his? ESAD dude your 15 minutes is up"


"As if this idiot wasn't bad enough, he's slowly starting to refer to himself int he third person...

I sincerely hope the charges against him are real, and backed with plenty of proof. The joy of watching this egotistical dirtbag cry in his pillow as the cell door slams shut on him would be a moment to cherish"


"Looks like karma just done b*tch-slapped you, Assange! BWAHAHAHAHAHA!"

Wow!

And only one commenter who decided to use his mind before jumping on the propaganda bandwagon...

"Ain't buying it!

Squidly? Squidly?

I'm holding final judgment until we see which TBTF bank is exposed. I fully 100% agree (with the theory) that if Bank Of America (yes-scumbags to the Nth degree - shoot the bastards) is the subject of douche bag Assange's dissemination...

Corexit and the Gulf crisis just magically evaporate. With all due respect to American Thinker the case ISN'T CLOSED. To imply that an ecological meltdown gets a Betadine bath and all is well is also something I AIN'T BUYING.

And everyone is BUYING that a low level punk mouth-synching Lady Gaga is the sole culprit for Wikileaks? Wow. Hook, line and sinker."

 

[Bruno@MT]

I've always thought that people defending or even encouraging prison rape is a nice example of hypocrisy. Like the inmates are their personal army who can get revenge for them. Lot's of red blooded patriotism there. I also don't get why a Journalist should not publish things that are embarrasing to the US government.

I thought all those patriots perfectly well understood the difference between love for your country and love for your government. IIRC there was a war about that issue, somewhere in 1776. I see many sig lines here about how the US government should not be trusted, and kept in check by the people, etc. But as soon as someone does just that and it is a bit embarrassing, the calls for blood, rape and revenge. Sad.

I did see 1 intelligent comment though. Why was a Pfc in Iraq able to a) see those documents and b) copy them. Those are failures of epic proportions. If he had access, then the claim that millions of people had access. That is just plain stupid.

 

[crushing]

about Assange, http://bigjournalism.com/pjsalvatore/2010/12/21/irony/

Because transparency in government is the same as transparency in private lives!

It's amazing in the comments the sheeple that fall right in line with that sort of thinking. Assange has exposed various dealings of the military industrial academic complex, therefore any right to privacy he may have should be violated!

maunakumu is right, it does say a lot about the state of affairs in the world.

 

[5-0 Kenpo]

Because transparency in government is the same as transparency in private lives!

It's amazing in the comments the sheeple that fall right in line with that sort of thinking. Assange has exposed various dealings of the military industrial academic complex, therefore any right to privacy he may have should be violated!

maunakumu is right, it does say a lot about the state of affairs in the world.

What right to privacy does one who has (allegedly) committed a crime have to keep such crime private? In the U.S., police reports are a matter of public record, obtainable by anyone who has knowledge that said crime exists. At most, addresses and names (in certain circumstances) are redacted.

So his right to privacy was not violated, at least by the standards of the U.S.

 

[Bruno@MT]

What right to privacy does one who has (allegedly) committed a crime have to keep such crime private? In the U.S., police reports are a matter of public record, obtainable by anyone who has knowledge that said crime exists. At most, addresses and names (in certain circumstances) are redacted.

So his right to privacy was not violated, at least by the standards of the U.S.

I am not really up to date as to what was leaked, but things like recorded statements etc, are they not private as well? A police report may be a public record, but other records are private, correct?

 

[crushing]

What right to privacy does one who has (allegedly) committed a crime have to keep such crime private? In the U.S., police reports are a matter of public record, obtainable by anyone who has knowledge that said crime exists. At most, addresses and names (in certain circumstances) are redacted.

So his right to privacy was not violated, at least by the standards of the U.S.

The linked to blog didn't have anything in the way of specifics as to what was leaked that went above and beyond the public records.

 

[Makalakumu]

The linked to blog didn't have anything in the way of specifics as to what was leaked that went above and beyond the public records.

There are several points here that are very interesting.

1. In an environment of many differing sets of privacy laws, which ones do you follow? If information was released and reported and it's legal in one country and illegal in another, can anyone expect privacy on the international level?

2. How about if information is leaked that would impair the "impartiality" of justice?

3. Is there an underlying assumption of some kind of "gold standard" of civil rights? If so, what is it?

 

[Makalakumu]

I did see 1 intelligent comment though. Why was a Pfc in Iraq able to a) see those documents and b) copy them. Those are failures of epic proportions. If he had access, then the claim that millions of people had access. That is just plain stupid.

If Manning was responsible, the story about how he did it is incredulous. From what I've been told about access to information under security clearance, there are all different kinds of levels of alarms that would have been tripped if Manning had downloaded almost a million documents. These alarms would have had to have failed or have been ignored in order to make this possible. Also, according to the story, Manning was outed by a snitch, and by his alleged blog posts, not by any investigation associated with a breach in security. The story has several holes in it that one could drive a truck through.

 

[Empty Hands]

The story has several holes in it that one could drive a truck through.

I for one don't have much difficulty believing it. Security protocols are notoriously bad and inefficient nearly everywhere, including the government. As far as secret documents go, this was also low-level stuff. No UFO coverups or reptilian overlords. Combine not-that-secret documents, a system that thousands if not more can access, the fact that he was in Iraq which is probably not as well-established security-wise, and the fact that information security is poor everywhere - I can see it.

 

[Makalakumu]

I for one don't have much difficulty believing it. Security protocols are notoriously bad and inefficient nearly everywhere, including the government. As far as secret documents go, this was also low-level stuff. No UFO coverups or reptilian overlords. Combine not-that-secret documents, a system that thousands if not more can access, the fact that he was in Iraq which is probably not as well-established security-wise, and the fact that information security is poor everywhere - I can see it.

I train with a guy with a security clearance and ask him. He said if the Manning story was correct, it should have rang every alarm they have. Take that for whatever you want to think about it. I guess the bottom line for me is that I'm not going to immediately believe this story simply because I am told to believe it...by our secret reptilian overlords. LOL!

 

[elder999]

I train with a guy with a security clearance and ask him. He said if the Manning story was correct, it should have rang every alarm they have. Take that for whatever you want to think about it. I guess the bottom line for me is that I'm not going to immediately believe this story simply because I am told to believe it...by our secret reptilian overlords. LOL!

Actually, post 9/11 there's been a concerted drive to grant wider access to other organizations data: NSA sharing with CIA, sharing with FBI, sharing with DHS, sharing with military, sharing with fill in the blank, and back and forth, and so on and so on.

This practice is what led to him being able to acces the wide variety of information that he did. As for his method of obtaining it, it's completely believable. He should never have had CD or DVD write capability at that sort of workstation, though......

 

[Bruno@MT]

Actually, post 9/11 there's been a concerted drive to grant wider access to other organizations data: NSA sharing with CIA, sharing with FBI, sharing with DHS, sharing with military, sharing with fill in the blank, and back and forth, and so on and so on.

This practice is what led to him being able to acces the wide variety of information that he did. As for his method of obtaining it, it's completely believable. He should never have had CD or DVD write capability at that sort of workstation, though......

On 'my' network, virtually noone has access to a physical computer.They're all located in a secure room, with only kvm (keyboard, video, mouse) outgoing. The couple of computers that are physically outside of that room have floppy, USB, dvd/cd and other removable media disabled, and are locked with a U shaped lock.

No internet access anywhere, and the handful of outgoing connections through the firewall are dedicated to fixed IP addresses and ports, locked down to specific protocols, mainly for allowing remote desktop access to servers and data replication.

And this is 'just' a pharmaceutical production network.
I'd expect better, not worse from an intelligence network. But I can easily imagine all these things being thrown overboard if you need to grant access to millions of people for the sake of not being accused of being an information hoarder (which was why 9/11 could happen).

@mau: having some experience with triggers and alarm and event notification, I can say that if you need to give many people wide access, you get swamped with thousands and millions of false positives. It is simply impossible to follow up on those because they are coming in faster than you can look at them. the only way to make some sense is to just ignore or deactivate the low level stuff.

I suspect that this is why we are reading simple diplomatic cables and low level communications, and not about military cover ups, the strategic plans for invading China, or (throwing you a bone here ) the UFO coverup files. Somewhere along the line, it became impossible to secure this low level stuff which thousands and thousands of people will access legitimately.

 

[Makalakumu]

@mau: having some experience with triggers and alarm and event notification, I can say that if you need to give many people wide access, you get swamped with thousands and millions of false positives. It is simply impossible to follow up on those because they are coming in faster than you can look at them. the only way to make some sense is to just ignore or deactivate the low level stuff.

I suspect that this is why we are reading simple diplomatic cables and low level communications, and not about military cover ups, the strategic plans for invading China, or (throwing you a bone here ) the UFO coverup files. Somewhere along the line, it became impossible to secure this low level stuff which thousands and thousands of people will access legitimately.

Hahahahahaha, I was beginning to think that if Manning did it, he pulled out some kind of secret ninja tricks.

The speculation sounds reasonable, and it's ticking off the talking points I've heard and read about Manning in the MSM. Maybe it's true.

Or maybe it's not. I don't know and I don't think that I have reliable sources that would report accurate information.

Consequently, we do have military cover-ups released in the war logs. Thousands of civilian deaths were covered up. Hundreds of people were swept up in snatch and grab operations for CIA torture prisons. Regular army bases like Bagram, have secret torture facilities where captives are injected with mind control drugs, and army contracts went to US companies to sell drugs and pimp little boys.

DAMN!!!!! If that is the low level stuff, then the high level **** is off the charts crazy. I could speculate, but I think you guys get the point. Start bowing to our secret reptilian overlords before it's too late!!!!