Romney Picks Paul Ryan...

[ballen0351]

Usually if the fetus is killed in the commission of a crime, though.

Yes that's what I was saying. You said legally they are not baby's until born and that's not true. They have the same.rights as the mother and when killed they are charged with murder. And to be a murder you must kill a living human so legally your a living human well before your actually born.

 

[elder999]

Yes that's what I was saying. You said legally they are not baby's until born and that's not true. They have the same.rights as the mother and when killed they are charged with murder. And to be a murder you must kill a living human so legally your a living human well before your actually born.

That's a very tenuous legal distinction for a very narrow set of circumstances: if a woman in such a jurisdiction seeks an abortion, or performs one on herself, she cannot be charged with "murder."

 

[elder999]

Again, it isn't just a religious value, although religion seems to be working harder to save these babies, but putting value on innocent human life.

It isn't "human life" until it breathes, Biblically speaking. Legally, we have a few other almost arbitrary distinctions, based on the duration of the pregnancy-while I agree with you in principle, your viewpoint is an emotional one-if nor religious and dogmatic. It is not based on facts, logic or science-doesn't mean that it's "wrong," just that it's not universal. If abortion were still illegal in this country, we wouldn't be having this argument, but it is a legal procedure, and one I'm glad that women can seek safely, rather than endangering themselves in seeking one, or having a safe option only be available to women with financial wherewithal, as in the past.


Again, in Ryan's case, it's a purely religious viewpoint-a product of Catholic dogma, and not at all in agreement with Biblical teaching.

 

[ballen0351]

That's a very tenuous legal distinction for a very narrow set of circumstances: if a woman in such a jurisdiction seeks an abortion, or performs one on herself, she cannot be charged with "murder."

That's not what I'm saying but to say they are legally not considered baby's is not true. I do find it pretty funny how people want to pick and choose when its a baby and when its not depending on the conversation they are either baby's or not if its murder its murder if its.not then its not.

 

[elder999]

That's not what I'm saying but to say they are legally not considered baby's is not true. I do find it pretty funny how people want to pick and choose when its a baby and when its not depending on the conversation they are either baby's or not if its murder its murder if its.not then its not.

I don't "want" anything-I'm not ever going to have an abortion, or have to choose to have one, or be a party to one, so the point is really moot.

More to the point, though, it is, in fact, the law that picks and chooses "when it's a baby and when it's not."

 

[billc]

Yes, I haven't murdered anyone, and I haven't been murdered (yet) nor do I plan on murdering anyone, so murder as a crime is really moot as well. I don't know why we bother with making murder illegal anyway.

 

[elder999]

Yes, I haven't murdered anyone, and I haven't been murdered (yet) nor do I plan on murdering anyone, so murder as a crime is really moot as well. I don't know why we bother with making murder illegal anyway.

This is illogical- almost anyone can commit murder, not everyone has a vagina.

 

[elder999]

View attachment $284921_460149217341117_2143840211_n.jpg

 

[billc]

If only abortion was an individual action, and if only an innocent human being wasn't involved, I might agree with you.

 

[ballen0351]

View attachment 17213

Citizen I don't want a baby

Govt keep your legs closed

 

[Big Don]

Citizen I don't want a baby

Govt keep your legs closed

hahaha as if that would ever be uttered

 

[billc]

I don't believe in birth control...too bad, you have to give it to people who work for you, even if you are a religiously based organization and the tenets of your religion do not permit you to give birth control to people...even if they can afford to buy it for themselves at Wal Mart.

 

[granfire]

hahaha as if that would ever be uttered

isn't that what's been preached?

 

[WC_lun]

...and even if the condition the birth control is being used for has nothing to do with birth control. Decicsions such as birth control should be left up to the doctor, the patient, and if the patient's religious beliefs effect that choice. Seems to me that too many people want to control other people's medical treatments. These same people say they are for less government intervention in people's lives, yet want to control something such as birth control. You cannot have it both ways.

 

[ballen0351]

...and even if the condition the birth control is being used for has nothing to do with birth control. Decicsions such as birth control should be left up to the doctor, the patient, and if the patient's religious beliefs effect that choice. Seems to me that too many people want to control other people's medical treatments. These same people say they are for less government intervention in people's lives, yet want to control something such as birth control. You cannot have it both ways.

Nobody said you can't use birth control they said we don't want the govt paying for it. Its simple really its called responsibility. The great thing about kids is if you don't want them there is a fool proof 100% effective way not to have them. Its not hard you dont even need to do anything.

 

[billc]

You don't have to be a catholic, you can also be a catholic and use birth control if you want. No one said that you can't use birth control, no one is coming between you and your doctor, except the government now under obamacare. The church is saying, this is what we believe, if you don't, buy your own birth control if you want to work for us...your choice, you aren't going to be forced to do anything but what you choose.

 

[WC_lun]

Nobody said you can't use birth control they said we don't want the govt paying for it. Its simple really its called responsibility. The great thing about kids is if you don't want them there is a fool proof 100% effective way not to have them. Its not hard you dont even need to do anything.

No. What was being said in these hearing was that even private insurance companies should not have to pay for birth control, even if birth control itself was not the point of taking the drug. That the companies knew better that the doctors and not from any scientific reasoning, but rather religious reasons. Plug in other drugs and treatments ad this line of thought becomes quite worrying and concerning. However, since sex and the decisions women make about it can be enveloped in the arguement, it then becomes fair game for those less government types that want more government involvment in women's medical decisions.

Here's a fair way to do it. If you sign up for a program that supplies birth control, and your doctor says you need it, you get it covered. If your religious convictions stand in the way of that, then you don't have to get the birth control. If a private insurance company sells its policy with paying for birthcontrol, it doesn't get to yank that coverage because of "religious" reasons. The government should definitley not be over-riding doctor's decisions in order to capitulate to the religious right.

 

[granfire]

No. What was being said in these hearing was that even private insurance companies should not have to pay for birth control, even if birth control itself was not the point of taking the drug. That the companies knew better that the doctors and not from any scientific reasoning, but rather religious reasons. Plug in other drugs and treatments ad this line of thought becomes quite worrying and concerning. However, since sex and the decisions women make about it can be enveloped in the arguement, it then becomes fair game for those less government types that want more government involvment in women's medical decisions.

Here's a fair way to do it. If you sign up for a program that supplies birth control, and your doctor says you need it, you get it covered. If your religious convictions stand in the way of that, then you don't have to get the birth control. If a private insurance company sells its policy with paying for birthcontrol, it doesn't get to yank that coverage because of "religious" reasons. The government should definitley not be over-riding doctor's decisions in order to capitulate to the religious right.

Well said. Too bad the 'argument' stops at 'ZOMG, IT'S BIRTH CONTROL'
heaven forbid it is prescribed for an actual medical condition....

 

[Tgace]

Here's a fair way of doing it...let the Catholic orgs continue doing things they way they always have been....

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk

 

[granfire]

Here's a fair way of doing it...let the Catholic orgs continue doing things they way they always have been....

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LOL, the orgs, maybe, the health insurance? no!

Just because you are catholic does not mean your female plumbing works differently.

I think the topics are getting muddled again:

First of all, it is shameful for politicians to nit pick on the definition of 'rape' in order to victimize the victim a second time. And I am not even going there where the esteemed gentleman declares that women can't get pregnant when raped. That is a slap in the face to top it all off.

Now, the BC issue.
Yes, it is most often used to prevent pregnancy.
But: many times it is also prescribed to alleviate a number of ailments in the woman's reproductive system that can and do diminish their quality of life severely! We are talking about 'discomfort' that renders some women on the couch or in bed for the better part of a week every month! Then there are a variety of other things like cysts etc...
It's a health care issue.