I once read about how Rorion challenged Benny "The Jet" Urquidez to a fight. Benny said he would fight if the following rules were put in place, whenever they got into a clinch the referee would pull them apart and whenever Benny grabbed on to the ropes the referee would pull them apart. Rorion said no, that he wasn't a kickboxer so he wouldn't fight under those rules. So it sounds to me like Rorion would fight somebody if the rules favored his style but he wouldn't fight somebody if the rules favored their style.
Rickson challenging Benny
- Thread starter PhotonGuy
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Chris Parker
Grandmaster
…. And?
What I mean is, what is your purpose in posting this. Are you asking if this genuinely happened? Are you suggesting that Rorion was being hypocritical or cowardly? Are you asking if the BJJ guys here would agree with his tactics or not?
For the record, I have in front of me some letters surrounding Royce Gracie challenging Benny, and Rorion challenging "Judo" Gene Le Bell… nothing about Rorion challenging Benny, and nothing like the story you're giving above.
What I mean is, what is your purpose in posting this. Are you asking if this genuinely happened? Are you suggesting that Rorion was being hypocritical or cowardly? Are you asking if the BJJ guys here would agree with his tactics or not?
For the record, I have in front of me some letters surrounding Royce Gracie challenging Benny, and Rorion challenging "Judo" Gene Le Bell… nothing about Rorion challenging Benny, and nothing like the story you're giving above.
Chris Parker
Grandmaster
No reply to your post was necessary… there isn't anything in it that invites any form of answer… you don't present a particular argument, question, statement, intent, or anything else. My post was to point that out to you, so that you could clarify why you posted in the first place.
Oh, and settle with the attitude, it's not going to help you. Recognise that I'm actually trying to engage you here.
Oh, and settle with the attitude, it's not going to help you. Recognise that I'm actually trying to engage you here.
If you don't want people to reply, don't post in a public forum.
Sent from an old fashioned 300 baud acoustic modem by whistling into the handset. Really.
There was a challenge issued between Benny Urquidez and one of the Gracies. I think the Gracies issued the challenge, but Benny, who was pretty much at the top of his kickboxing & movie fame, turned them down unless some conditions were met. Honestly, I don't blame him. I don't recall all the details, but they were pretty much to make it worth his time and to make it worth taking the risk. After all -- what did he have to gain? Had he beat the relatively unknown Gracies... what would he have gained? It would have been what was expected. Had he lost -- he'd have boosted their fame, and hurt his prospects. And chanced an injury that might have interfered with his next paid fight or movie...
I've read various accounts of the supposed challenge, but I don't remember the details. I think it probably fell apart over prize money as much as anything.
Rorion would probably insist that the condition for the fight was no rules at all, but of course that isn't really true. Gracie challenge matches were fought under a variety of conditions, but the rules were always at a minimum: one-on-one, no weapons. (There were some other rules that were generally adhered to, such as the fight occurring at an agreed upon time and place, but there are examples of that rule being violated by prominent members of the Gracie family.) In fairness, the Gracies mostly didn't think of these as explicit rules. It was more their implicit cultural understanding of what a fight meant.
Rorion would probably insist that the condition for the fight was no rules at all, but of course that isn't really true. Gracie challenge matches were fought under a variety of conditions, but the rules were always at a minimum: one-on-one, no weapons. (There were some other rules that were generally adhered to, such as the fight occurring at an agreed upon time and place, but there are examples of that rule being violated by prominent members of the Gracie family.) In fairness, the Gracies mostly didn't think of these as explicit rules. It was more their implicit cultural understanding of what a fight meant.
I spent a lot of time training in L.A. back in the nineties. Before I go into what I remember about this (which ain't much) Here's an article from Black Belt magizine from 1995-
Black Belt - Google Books
What I remember being told from people who trained with either of the men was was that around the time Art Davie was first starting the UFC he wanted Rorian and Benny the Jet to match up. (not for the UFC, this was before) The question, as it usually is, was about money and rules. Gloves, no gloves, a ring or a mat etc, etc" but what really killed the deal was The Jet wanted "no more than thirty seconds on the ground before the fighters were stood up". Boy, talk about a deal breaker.
I also heard from people I trust that Rorian and Benny met in the early eighties and that Rorian closed the distance, took him down and choked him out. I heard that from several people - but they didn't actually see it. But they were pretty wired into the fight scene back then.
Whatever the case may be, Rorian Gracie and Benny Urquidez are two top of the line Martial Artists. To me, in a WOW kind of way.
Black Belt - Google Books
What I remember being told from people who trained with either of the men was was that around the time Art Davie was first starting the UFC he wanted Rorian and Benny the Jet to match up. (not for the UFC, this was before) The question, as it usually is, was about money and rules. Gloves, no gloves, a ring or a mat etc, etc" but what really killed the deal was The Jet wanted "no more than thirty seconds on the ground before the fighters were stood up". Boy, talk about a deal breaker.
I also heard from people I trust that Rorian and Benny met in the early eighties and that Rorian closed the distance, took him down and choked him out. I heard that from several people - but they didn't actually see it. But they were pretty wired into the fight scene back then.
Whatever the case may be, Rorian Gracie and Benny Urquidez are two top of the line Martial Artists. To me, in a WOW kind of way.
Chris Parker
Grandmaster
And, for the record, the reply from Benny Urquidez mentioned by Royce in the above article, is as follows:
For the record, this was found in the October/November 1994 edition of Australasian Fighting Arts, followed by a transcript of Royce's ad:
I'll leave it to people to make up their own minds as to the conduct displayed on both sides here (Royce's article in Black Belt above, and his ad/challenge here, and Benny's responce letter).
Just a quick question to the OP… you are meaning Rorion, yeah? The title of the thread says different…
FWIW, I seem to recall that there were some attempts (I don't know how serious) to set up a Rorion/Benny fight before the UFC. I could be wrong about that. That accounts on both sides seem to be pretty heavy on spin.
After the first UFC was when Royce started issuing public challenges to folks like Benny Urquidez, Mike Tyson, and Gene Lebell. These were clearly publicity stunts rather than serious negotiations to set up an actual match.
After the first UFC was when Royce started issuing public challenges to folks like Benny Urquidez, Mike Tyson, and Gene Lebell. These were clearly publicity stunts rather than serious negotiations to set up an actual match.
Well I see this all as old news. Lets face if the Gracies early on were challenging people to make a name for themselves. This was how they operated. Benny was established and they targeted him and others.
