Rethinking 9/11

[Tgace]

Jowenko said he didn't think WTC 1+2 were demo but 7 was....

Besides the fact that many of his peers thought he was nuts...why demo 7 but not all 3?

Of course his car accident death is now all part of the conspiracy.

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[Makalakumu]

If expertise matters--doesn't it sway you that the overwhelming majority of experts think things happened just as the mainstream version has it?

Has there actually been a survey that measured this, or is this your opinion?

 

[Big Don]

http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/military/news/1227842
http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/military/news/1227842
http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/military/news/1227842
http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/military/news/1227842
http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/military/news/1227842

"It is impossible for a building to fall the way it fell without explosives being involved," stated actress and TV personality Rosie O'Donnell of ABC's The View in March 2007. "For the first time in history, steel was melted by fire. It is physically impossible," she said.

​

Yep, because that isn't how things are made out of steel. I get it, some where in some third world country there are flat ware mines where spoons and forks and knifes come out of the ground fully formed. Yeah, just outside Detroit there are Car mines...

 

[Grenadier]

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[Makalakumu]

ATTENTION ALL USERS:

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Yeah, there is no reason to get really upset about this fellas. Use it as a learning experience. For me the lesson is this, no one here has the training or evidence to really know what happened, but still they are damned committed to being the governments thought police. Those are your neighbors, my friends...

 

[Big Don]

Yeah, there is no reason to get really upset about this fellas. Use it as a learning experience. For me the lesson is this, no one here has the training or evidence to really know what happened, but still they are damned committed to being the governments thought police. Those are your neighbors, my friends...

Well, we have eyes, we watched the planes fly into the buildings...

 

[Makalakumu]

Well, we have eyes, we watched the planes fly into the buildings...

So did I. I was practicing karate out in my yard when my wife called and told me to turn on the TV. I stopped in the middle of Chinto no kata and went upstairs in time to watch the second plane fly into the towers. It was at that point that I was informed that America was under attack and that bad people in Afghanistan and Iraq were responsible. I remember turning off the TV and walking out to the cold Lake Superior beach. I knew that millions of people would die in response to this and I felt despair for the world that my daughter would grow up in.

9/11 changed my world. All of my dreams went down with the twin towers because the fundamental stability of this country was destroyed that day. This isn't the kind of society I want my children to be born into. Damn history and damn the people who did it...I don't care who.

 

[Tgace]

Well, we have eyes, we watched the planes fly into the buildings...

Good thing they both struck exactly at the right spots of the buildings where the demo was scheduled to blow...also good that the collision and fires didn't damage any of the charges/shock cord/command wiring etc.

I may have never demo'ed a building but I have wired charges and used det/shock cord....planning a coreographed demo with plane collisions? Thinking this was possible from the "complexity aspect" alone is a tad naive if not "loopy".


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[Bob Hubbard]

The problem with the whole thing is, such fine timed choreography is in fact possible.
Go to an air show and watch the Blue Angels fly. I've seen stunt shows with explosions, planes, etc.
So the timing isn't a big deal.
The failure in the conspiracy is not IF such a thing is possible, but keeping the whole thing a secret years later.
You're looking at coordinating with suicidal people, arranging the elimination of the organizers, elimination of the eliminators, elimination of the eliminators of the eliminators....
In over a decade, no one's come forward and said "I was part of the team that planed the demo charges/recruited the hijackers/etc"?

The Bush administration would have had to be masterminds at a level far beyond the Emperor in Star Wars....and while Dick Cheney's pretty much a Sith at heart...Dubya's more like JarJar.

 

[Big Don]

So did I. I was practicing karate out in my yard when my wife called and told me to turn on the TV. I stopped in the middle of Chinto no kata and went upstairs in time to watch the second plane fly into the towers. It was at that point that I was informed that America was under attack and that bad people in Afghanistan and Iraq were responsible.

Well, there is part of your problem, you need your hearing checked... Islamic terrorists were blamed. It was mentioned that they trained in Afghanistan

I remember turning off the TV and walking out to the cold Lake Superior beach. I knew that millions of people would die in response to this and I felt despair for the world that my daughter would grow up in.

9/11 changed my world. All of my dreams went down with the twin towers because the fundamental stability of this country was destroyed that day. This isn't the kind of society I want my children to be born into. Damn history and damn the people who did it...I don't care who.

 

[Makalakumu]

Well, there is part of your problem, you need your hearing checked... Islamic terrorists were blamed. It was mentioned that they trained in Afghanistan

And it was mentioned that they were paid by the Saudis and that they were Saudis and that they all had CIA tails and some had handlers and that everyone who was supposed to be knowing about this, knew about this and yet it still happened anyway. They never mentioned that on the news.

All I knew was that when they started telling us less than an hour after who we needed to hate now, the whole thing was ****ed. I knew it was all some game played by really powerful people and lots of people were going to die. I thought about the children I was helping to bring into this world and really wondered about what kind of future I could provide for them in this kind of environment.

 

[Makalakumu]

In over a decade, no one's come forward and said "I was part of the team that planed the demo charges/recruited the hijackers/etc"

Perhaps we need a speak with dead spell. Lol.

Who knows. Here is what I think needs to be considered. Bureaucrats run the show in DC. there are some guys who have tens of thousands of people underneath them and they have worked government jobs for decades. Who really knows why kinds of things these people plan. When so much of the budget is secret, can you really say with confidence that you know anything about what the government does?

 

[grumpywolfman]

The Bush administration would have had to be masterminds at a level far beyond the Emperor in Star Wars....

Bohemian Grove?

 

[Tgace]

The problem with the whole thing is, such fine timed choreography is in fact possible.
Go to an air show and watch the Blue Angels fly. I've seen stunt shows with explosions, planes, etc.
So the timing isn't a big deal.
The failure in the conspiracy is not IF such a thing is possible, but keeping the whole thing a secret years later.
You're looking at coordinating with suicidal people, arranging the elimination of the organizers, elimination of the eliminators, elimination of the eliminators of the eliminators....
In over a decade, no one's come forward and said "I was part of the team that planed the demo charges/recruited the hijackers/etc"?

The Bush administration would have had to be masterminds at a level far beyond the Emperor in Star Wars....and while Dick Cheney's pretty much a Sith at heart...Dubya's more like JarJar.

I still have a problem with that Bob...that assumes that the gvt could find 4 highly trained pilots willing to commit suicide vs jihadis trained in the rudimentary skills of piloting. That just adds another layer of operational complexity to the conspiracy.

If the argument is that these attackers were paid gvt assets and that govt planners knew that planes with a specific quantity of fuel striking the right areas of the buildings would bring them down that's at least a plausible conspiracy from a planning/operations aspect. A years long..if not decades long..wiring of occupied buildings (how much risk in discovery THAT alone presents) involving tons of explosives and rigging, recruitment of Blue Angels level pilots, planes striking buildings and not damaging that demo rigging...and not one error, discovery, whistleblower etc?


I don't buy any of it.

 

[elder999]

Yeah, there is no reason to get really upset about this fellas. Use it as a learning experience. For me the lesson is this, no one here has the training or evidence to really know what happened, but still they are damned committed to being the governments thought police. Those are your neighbors, my friends...

Actually, I've been arguing that I've got the training and experience to recognize that both towers were felled by plane crash and fire damage. In this, I'm not alone-in fact, I belong to the majority of the qualified people in sharing this concensus. Those who don't agree fall into the same realm-as others have pointed out-of otherwise well-educated people who believe in a young earth, and teaching creationism in schools.

Morons, in other words.

 

[grumpywolfman]

Actually, I've been arguing that I've got the training and experience to recognize that both towers were felled by plane crash and fire damage. In this, I'm not alone-in fact, I belong to the majority of the qualified people in sharing this concensus. Those who don't agree fall into the same realm-as others have pointed out-of otherwise well-educated people who believe in a young earth, and teaching creationism in schools.

Morons, in other words.

Could you please provide links to all of your independent research? Because all that I can seem to find in your posts are insulting rants, put downs, and B.S. cartoons :idunno:

 

[Makalakumu]

Actually, I've been arguing that I've got the training and experience to recognize that both towers were felled by plane crash and fire damage. In this, I'm not alone-in fact, I belong to the majority of the qualified people in sharing this concensus. Those who don't agree fall into the same realm-as others have pointed out-of otherwise well-educated people who believe in a young earth, and teaching creationism in schools.

Morons, in other words.

I had a chemistry professor who was a creationist and I used to visit him in his office to chat about it. I'm an atheist and I wanted to know how something like this could happen. Anyway, we had some pretty interesting discussions, it didn't change my mind about creationism, but I think I understand humans a little better.

That said, have ever bothered to talk to Richard Gage or any of the other experts who disagree with your analysis?

 

[elder999]

Could you please provide links to all of your independent research? Because all that I can seem to find in your posts are insulting rants, put downs, and B.S. cartoons :idunno:

No.

This, of course, speaks to the entire problem.

I am, among all other things, a sailor. Were we in the middle of the Pacific Ocean, using proven methods of celestial navigation, I could accurately determine our position within 1.5 miles-I have done as much before, and will again; I have no "independent research" that supports my methodology or experience, save thousands of years of seafaring, geometry and astronomy. If, however, you were to insist that we were not in the middle of the Pacific Ocean, but had been-as though by magic-transported to the middle of the Atlantic, and that you were right and I was wrong, and that you had the independent research of a chemist, a science teacher and a medical doctor to support you, well....I'd have to throw you all off my boat.

Of course, you'd be there, adrift in the Pacific, insisting that all I had to support my position were insulting rants, put downs, and B.S. cartoons (charts and ephemeris), while I sailed for land.

In the end, people who want to insist-against years of scientific evidence and experience-that the world is flat, and only 6500 years old, and that evolution is "just a theory," and an untrue one at that-or that the twin towers were a controlled demolition, as was WTC#7, are not worthy of much more than I've offered here....such people, people who cling to their ignorance when presented with solid factual rebuttal, people for whom the phrase "pearls before swine" was invented, are only worthy of one appelation, as I said:

Morons.

 

[Grenadier]

Administrator's Note:

Thread locked, pending staff review.

-Ronald Shin
-MT Assistant Administrator