M
Mon Mon
Guest
To pay Reperations for Slavery.
After Reading some articles i have come to the conclusion that it is not fair.
After Reading some articles i have come to the conclusion that it is not fair.
K
Kirk
Guest
I didn't do it .. and I don't know of anyone that has been a slave.
Gathered to which ... how many people in this country even have
ancestry that were slave owners. How is ancestry to slavery
going to be proven?
Gathered to which ... how many people in this country even have
ancestry that were slave owners. How is ancestry to slavery
going to be proven?
Based on my familys history, no one in my tree ever owned a slave. Therefore it is not right to take money from us to do so. In addition, Slavery ended over 100 years ago...surely in that 100 years those former slaves and their decendants had ample opportunity to improve their lot in life.
After all, its not like they had their land stolen, were forced to march cross country at gun point and then relocated to the most useless tracts of land available.
:asian:
After all, its not like they had their land stolen, were forced to march cross country at gun point and then relocated to the most useless tracts of land available.
:asian:
Ihave had this discussion on other boards in the past. It can be a very heated issue. As a full blooded jew, and until about 15 years ago, we were, on US forms considered a seperate race, I find the idea that African American community can not only suggest a thing, but to have people take it seriously absolutely appaling. Fact, Africans sold Africans into slavery. Fact, the jews were slaves a thousand years before the "Black" africans. Fact. the African American population did not have genocide attempted on them less than 50 years ago. I keep running into affirmative action, it has kept me out of several well paying jobs, that I was MORE qualified for. I think the whole situation is absolutely disgusting. The only way to reach true equality, is to drop the race issues.
R
rmcrobertson
Guest
So was it OK to require various German/Swiss companies to pay WWII reparations?
The argument, there, was that their subsequent wealth and power had been built on war crimes, including slavery. Therefore, it was right that they should lose part of what they subsequently had...
The idea that "they're," getting the job I deserve is a common one. It's just not mostly true...I'd recommend looking up US Dept. of Labor statistics, which I suspect will show that by and large, us white guys are still getting the biggest chunk of the pie by far...
Course, no WASP ever got a job, or promotion, just because of their WASPiness...well, Dan Quayle, but he's the only one. Ever.
Thanks,
Robert
The argument, there, was that their subsequent wealth and power had been built on war crimes, including slavery. Therefore, it was right that they should lose part of what they subsequently had...
The idea that "they're," getting the job I deserve is a common one. It's just not mostly true...I'd recommend looking up US Dept. of Labor statistics, which I suspect will show that by and large, us white guys are still getting the biggest chunk of the pie by far...
Course, no WASP ever got a job, or promotion, just because of their WASPiness...well, Dan Quayle, but he's the only one. Ever.
Thanks,
Robert
K
KenpoDragon
Guest
Seig has made some very valid points,
1. I never owned a slave.
2. My family never owned a slave.
3. There haven't been "slaves" for quite some time now.
4. Affirmative action is B.S, a job should go to the "most" qualified applicant.
5. All races have had to suffer at one time or another. Just for the record I am part Japanese and my Grandparents were put in "camps/ prisons" just for being Japanese, not less than 100 years ago, you don't see me asking for no free friggin check do you?
I understand the reperations argument, I just don't see why "everyone" should be held accountable for the actions of certain people.
:asian:
1. I never owned a slave.
2. My family never owned a slave.
3. There haven't been "slaves" for quite some time now.
4. Affirmative action is B.S, a job should go to the "most" qualified applicant.
5. All races have had to suffer at one time or another. Just for the record I am part Japanese and my Grandparents were put in "camps/ prisons" just for being Japanese, not less than 100 years ago, you don't see me asking for no free friggin check do you?
I understand the reperations argument, I just don't see why "everyone" should be held accountable for the actions of certain people.
:asian:
But how much did they actually repay? Built on your logic, it would be fair to say that only southern states would have to pay as they fought a war in which ONE of the issues was slavery. No, I do not agree with it.
There are three kinds of lies: Lies, Damned Lies and Statistics. I can site three examples n the last two years where I have not gotten a job because I am a white male. I am not whininig, I am stating a fact. And although I was told the reason I did not get the job was that I was a white male, they would not, unfortunately for me, put that in writing. I had a job offer retracted form the discovery channel, also raytheon, and one more I am still waiting on because the people hiring were told to hire African Americans and women, even if there were more qualified whit males. I have been waiting over a year for a backround investigation to be STARTED because the A-As and women were given precedent, even though NOT one of them scored higher on the written test or the oral boards. The three ofus that scored highest were all white males, and alll three of us are still waiting.
I believe I am a WASP. (Dunno....never checked my but for a stinger..) 
as a 'white male' I am least likely to get government aid for my business, medicaide or medicare, collage assistance, food stamps, HEAP, or many other aid packages.
I pay some of the highest car insurance rates due only to gender and 'race'.
IF there was to be reparations paid to those of African decent who were in bondage in the US, they should have been handled before 1900. After 100+ years, all those who were held in bondage and those who held them are long since dust.
The time to have paid for those victimized by the Nazi regime was in the late 1940-s, early 1950s. 50 years later, it is too late.
The same is true for other groups.
While I do not deny something should have been done, tell me, in all honesty, why should someones great grandson, who has been breathing the air of freedom and facing a wealth of opportunities, get what basically amounts to a free check? Because of some pigment in their skin? Please. Its not our fault that they have wasted their time and lives and remained in crap situations. Others in worse straights have pulled themselves up by their own courage and strengths.
I count amongst my many friends and associates members of all 'races' and creeds. I don't seperate based on such things. I do seperate based on what one does with their gifts. I have 'black' friends...but no '******s'. I have 'white friends' but no honkeys. I have 'yellow', 'brown' and 'red' friends, but no 'chinks', 'spooks' or 'indians'. They are just people of many pigments. All of whom seek to achieve all they can, and not sit back n wait for a free check.
I'm sure someone will call or think me a racist or bigot. Too bad. I'm tired of every group having a day or holiday but the one I belong to. I call for the creation of "National White-Boy Day". Make it a Monday. The official food can be beer and pizza, and we can watch football.
as a 'white male' I am least likely to get government aid for my business, medicaide or medicare, collage assistance, food stamps, HEAP, or many other aid packages.
I pay some of the highest car insurance rates due only to gender and 'race'.
IF there was to be reparations paid to those of African decent who were in bondage in the US, they should have been handled before 1900. After 100+ years, all those who were held in bondage and those who held them are long since dust.
The time to have paid for those victimized by the Nazi regime was in the late 1940-s, early 1950s. 50 years later, it is too late.
The same is true for other groups.
While I do not deny something should have been done, tell me, in all honesty, why should someones great grandson, who has been breathing the air of freedom and facing a wealth of opportunities, get what basically amounts to a free check? Because of some pigment in their skin? Please. Its not our fault that they have wasted their time and lives and remained in crap situations. Others in worse straights have pulled themselves up by their own courage and strengths.
I count amongst my many friends and associates members of all 'races' and creeds. I don't seperate based on such things. I do seperate based on what one does with their gifts. I have 'black' friends...but no '******s'. I have 'white friends' but no honkeys. I have 'yellow', 'brown' and 'red' friends, but no 'chinks', 'spooks' or 'indians'. They are just people of many pigments. All of whom seek to achieve all they can, and not sit back n wait for a free check.
I'm sure someone will call or think me a racist or bigot. Too bad. I'm tired of every group having a day or holiday but the one I belong to. I call for the creation of "National White-Boy Day". Make it a Monday. The official food can be beer and pizza, and we can watch football.
K
KenpoDragon
Guest
I may not be a "white boy" but I love beer......uummmmm beer, and pizza, and I could always use another day off of work.
:drinkbeer :drinkbeer :cheers:
:drinkbeer :drinkbeer :cheers:
Sure, why not.
Now, we will need a 'spokesman' who is well renouned for their 'whiteness'... yet isn't too far left or right, and should also be a bit pudgy and balding too...
Ed Asner. Andy Rooney. Charlie Brown.
Regarding the hiring practices... I've seen examples of 'quota' hiring. I believe it was either the NY state police or the Buffalo police had several vacant positions a few years ago due to there being no suitable 'non-caucasion' applicants, while there were several caucasions who did qualify, except for a pigment issue. I lost a chance for a government job in Ohio a few years ago due to the fact that I've got an 'outtie' where their 'ideal' candidate would have an 'innie'. (You figure it out)
My opinion is, put the best -person- for the job into it, regardless of gender and race and religion. Stop hiring based on anything outside of qualifications and test scores.
Now, we will need a 'spokesman' who is well renouned for their 'whiteness'... yet isn't too far left or right, and should also be a bit pudgy and balding too...
Ed Asner.
Andy Rooney. Charlie Brown. Regarding the hiring practices... I've seen examples of 'quota' hiring. I believe it was either the NY state police or the Buffalo police had several vacant positions a few years ago due to there being no suitable 'non-caucasion' applicants, while there were several caucasions who did qualify, except for a pigment issue. I lost a chance for a government job in Ohio a few years ago due to the fact that I've got an 'outtie' where their 'ideal' candidate would have an 'innie'. (You figure it out)
My opinion is, put the best -person- for the job into it, regardless of gender and race and religion. Stop hiring based on anything outside of qualifications and test scores.
R
rmcrobertson
Guest
I'm not sure that I understand how anyone "knows," that they didn't get a job because they were a "white male," since my experience has been that that's the last thing any hiring committee or job officer will discuss, at least if they're in their right mind. Among other things, by federal (and in California, nyway, State) law, they'd be opening themselves up to a discrimination suit...so how, exactly, do you know? and why didn't you sue, since you believe this to have been deeply wrong?
Regarding my comments, there was a big flareup a while back regarding the state jobs...it was a while back, and I don't recall many of the specifics. As to the Ohio job, the recruiter basically said 'youve got the skills, but they really want a woman for this position'. I left Ohio shortly afterwards so never bothered to pursue it.
As an irishman, when my Grandfather came over here from Ireland he couldn't find work. "No Irish allowed" was a pretty damn common sign outside buisnesses and things I am told. He finaly changed the Family name From O'boyle to somthing more "non Irish"
Too bad, so sad, It happend. Don't pay me for it, it didnt happen to me...
Too bad, so sad, It happend. Don't pay me for it, it didnt happen to me...
K
Kirk
Guest
I was told flat out, plenty of times. Try for any government job ...
you'd be surprised at the b.s. I work for the local gov't where I
live ... one time we were required to submit a list of SURNAMES
to the commisioner's court. A freeze was put on because one
commisioner felt that there weren't enough spanish surnames.
Where I work, our deparment (IT) is WELL ABOVE the ratios of
minorities who even enter into IT or CS majors in college ... but
that wasn't enough. Now they're upset that 50% hispanic
management isn't good enough.
Seperate from an affirmative action issue one time I was
interviewed for a job by the guy who had already filled the
position .. but regs required that X number of people be
interviewed ... once I found that out, I said, "well thank you for
your time" and walked out.
C
chufeng
Guest
When my great-grand-father moved to Auburn, Maine from Canada, he was not only not able to find work, but was not allowed to establish his own business...the French weren't looked upon very favorably (and by today's measure, still aren't).
He changed the last name to look more English and established Hachey's Shoe Manufacturing...a successful business at the time...I have no idea if it still exists...although I do remember driving by the place in 1974...my Uncle took me by the place to show me "part of my roots."
Now I've never made much about my heritage (50% French, 25% Danish, and 25% Norwegian) because I am an American...my boys are even more "diluted" since my wife is Philippina...
I can honestly say that my wife's family didn't own slaves (they were landowners but still considered peasants because they worked their small farm by themselves).
Everyone in my family tree worked in factories...don't think anyone in our line owned slaves...
Many blacks have moved to this country SINCE the days of slavery (one of my students is from Kenya)...Many "white-folk" have moved here AFTER the days of slavery...HOW can anyone claim to be OWED something because of the color of their skin? and WHY is it up to the American TAX-PAYER (which includes everyone) to cough up this supposed "justice?"
Who paid the families of the soldiers who died during the Civil War? They got a free burial and a flag plus a lump sum of ??? (certainly not much).
How many slaves, or children of slaves, are still alive?
This is a divisive issue...no doubt.
The people who come to this country from foreign lands seem to be able to establish successful businesses and to flourish...Why??? Because they bust their butts EVERY frickin' day.
They don't come here expecting a hand-out...they are content with the opportunities afforded them...so HOW can anyone who grew up here be less advantaged? Just work hard...that is all it takes...I did it (no, I wasn't born with a silver spoon in my mouth...I'm the only one who finished college (and I paid for it myself) from my family.
:asian:
chufeng
He changed the last name to look more English and established Hachey's Shoe Manufacturing...a successful business at the time...I have no idea if it still exists...although I do remember driving by the place in 1974...my Uncle took me by the place to show me "part of my roots."
Now I've never made much about my heritage (50% French, 25% Danish, and 25% Norwegian) because I am an American...my boys are even more "diluted" since my wife is Philippina...
I can honestly say that my wife's family didn't own slaves (they were landowners but still considered peasants because they worked their small farm by themselves).
Everyone in my family tree worked in factories...don't think anyone in our line owned slaves...
Many blacks have moved to this country SINCE the days of slavery (one of my students is from Kenya)...Many "white-folk" have moved here AFTER the days of slavery...HOW can anyone claim to be OWED something because of the color of their skin? and WHY is it up to the American TAX-PAYER (which includes everyone) to cough up this supposed "justice?"
Who paid the families of the soldiers who died during the Civil War? They got a free burial and a flag plus a lump sum of ??? (certainly not much).
How many slaves, or children of slaves, are still alive?
This is a divisive issue...no doubt.
The people who come to this country from foreign lands seem to be able to establish successful businesses and to flourish...Why??? Because they bust their butts EVERY frickin' day.
They don't come here expecting a hand-out...they are content with the opportunities afforded them...so HOW can anyone who grew up here be less advantaged? Just work hard...that is all it takes...I did it (no, I wasn't born with a silver spoon in my mouth...I'm the only one who finished college (and I paid for it myself) from my family.
:asian:
chufeng
Mr. McRobertson,
Either things are vastly different in California than they are here, or I would like to request those rose colored glasses of yours. In the instances I mentioned, I know, not believe, know, because I was TOLD I did in fact try to sue. I contacted several attorneys. The issue is, they can say anything they damned well please, but unless they commit it to paper, you can't do squat. I have also seen a very blatant example of this in my current job, we were about to have an opening and since a job here takes about 6 months to qualify for, we were scrambling ot get it filled. My supervisor was told "hire a minority, qualifications don't matter as long as they can pass the test and the background investigation." I was able to get a friend of mine hired, they almost didn't hire him at the main office, because they THOUGHT he was white. Turns out, he is hispanic; therefore, he was hired, immediately and pushed through the program in 4 months instead of 6. Also, this area, MD and VA are "right to work" states, that means they can either refuse to hir or fire anyone for any reason. A supervisor can tell you, "I don't like you, you're fired". There is nothing you can do about it. Look closely at affirmatice action, not the way it is supposed to be, but the way it is. In any position that deals with government or government contracting, there are in fact quotas.
Man, I can see by all your replies that none of you have the least bit of understanding of the issue. The problem is that we have ten percent of our population over imprisoned, under educated, under represented. Black people have continualy been slighted since the end of the civil war. When ever a leader or citizen opens their big mouth about how black people are just a bunch of malcontents looking for a hand-out, the resentment only builds on both sides. I'm real happy to hear about how you were poor and put yourself through college blah, blah, blah; but, lack of money is not the problem. These people were robbed of their culture. This is something the Jews, Chinese, Japanese, or even the Irish cannot claim.
Culture is what drives us to do the things we do and think the way we think. For lack of a culture African Americans have to create their own. This consists of a mixture of western culture and a built in resentment and rejection of western culture. Rather than recognizing the growing problem most people through out history have considered black people a group that should be kept apart from themselves. In turn Black children are raised to distrust cops, teachers, authority figures. They find role models to be people that find a way to beat the system. Ie musicions, gangsters, drug dealers and what not. A true counter-culture has been built by white indifference and black resentment.
I don't support sending these modern day families a check once a month; however, I do fully support affirmative action. We need to help build and support a black community. Chufeng mentioned that chinese people are not favored in the US well I know that in Washington state a chinese immagrant can recieve government bennefits to open a business. The average citizen black or white cannot. Affirmative action is not perfect but it's the only positive direction we have in effect.
Don't even get me started on the criminal justice system!
Culture is what drives us to do the things we do and think the way we think. For lack of a culture African Americans have to create their own. This consists of a mixture of western culture and a built in resentment and rejection of western culture. Rather than recognizing the growing problem most people through out history have considered black people a group that should be kept apart from themselves. In turn Black children are raised to distrust cops, teachers, authority figures. They find role models to be people that find a way to beat the system. Ie musicions, gangsters, drug dealers and what not. A true counter-culture has been built by white indifference and black resentment.
I don't support sending these modern day families a check once a month; however, I do fully support affirmative action. We need to help build and support a black community. Chufeng mentioned that chinese people are not favored in the US well I know that in Washington state a chinese immagrant can recieve government bennefits to open a business. The average citizen black or white cannot. Affirmative action is not perfect but it's the only positive direction we have in effect.
Don't even get me started on the criminal justice system!
Matt Stone
Master of Arts
My great-grandparents came to the United States, family in tow, to establish a life better than the rural farming and innkeeping tradition they had historically particpated in...
I was accused by a friend of alleged Native American and African ethnic descent that "people like me" had been responsible for the enslavement and genocide of "people like him."
Then I pointed out that "people like me" was an erroneous phrase. I pointed out that my family has only been in this country for coming up on three generations, and that I can't recall any of them owning anyone (nor my owning anyone, either). I pointed out that the countries my family members come from have within the last 30 - 50 years been victims of genocide, military confinement, repression, discrimination, murder... I told him that the most his family has probably had to worry about was inequal employment and rude treatment in public.
Whatever.
I like giving everyone equal opportunity - equal opportunity to fail, not succeed. Set them up, but don't set them up for success... Everyone gets an equal, flat playing field, and let the best person win.
Not everybody is special, not everybody is useful, not everybody has a higher purpose... Some folks are drones, some are not.
Giving somebody cash today for someone's suffering then is ridiculous. What'd they do to deserve the income?
Gambarimasu.
:asian:
I was accused by a friend of alleged Native American and African ethnic descent that "people like me" had been responsible for the enslavement and genocide of "people like him."
Then I pointed out that "people like me" was an erroneous phrase. I pointed out that my family has only been in this country for coming up on three generations, and that I can't recall any of them owning anyone (nor my owning anyone, either). I pointed out that the countries my family members come from have within the last 30 - 50 years been victims of genocide, military confinement, repression, discrimination, murder... I told him that the most his family has probably had to worry about was inequal employment and rude treatment in public.
Whatever.
I like giving everyone equal opportunity - equal opportunity to fail, not succeed. Set them up, but don't set them up for success... Everyone gets an equal, flat playing field, and let the best person win.
Not everybody is special, not everybody is useful, not everybody has a higher purpose... Some folks are drones, some are not.
Giving somebody cash today for someone's suffering then is ridiculous. What'd they do to deserve the income?
Gambarimasu.
:asian:
Similar threads
