Relationship between Modern Arnis and Balintawak

[Datu Kelly S. Worden]

Hi Rob,

Well, I don't post in areas other then the ones I moderate much, but because I like ya Rob, I'll respond. WTF, why not...

Rob, a lot of what I will say, you already know, but I am saying it for the benefit of everyone else.

First off, we need to look at the nature of both systems to understand the differences. Balintawak is a stick dueling system. Created by Anciong, it evolved during a time when scores were settled through dueling with the stick. Modern Arnis, on the other hand, is NOT a stick dueling system. It is a system of self-defense. When one understands the purpose of each system, then one can understand the differences and the reasons why they evolved that way.



Hey Paul,

A lot of information and well thought out,

I do agree that Modern Arnis generally speaking is not a stick dueling art specifically designed like Balintawak. But Professor was an extremely skilled Balintawak player prior to his inception of Modern Arnis and the contents does lie within Modern Arnis if one chooses to seek the connections. It can also be said and has been stated that Professor Remy respected the art of Balintawak enough that his expression of Tapi tapi was his personal approach to neutralizing any perceived threats resulting in stick fighting matches against Balintawak of other systems.

So, when we look at Balintawak, we find that there really isn't an "empty hand" system per say. Not in the classical sense, anyway. Most of our Balintawak Training is geared towards dueling with someone else, stick vs. stick. If Anciong or one of his students were going to fight, they brought 1 stick. If two players wanted to test each other out, they did so with a stick. So, the focus on knifework, empty-hand work, etc., didn't exist in Balintawak. Now, does this mean that Balintawak players couldn't fight without a stick? No...in fact Manong Ted's students here on this board will recall the tale of a fight Anciong had where his empty hand skills came into play. Each instructor had certain skills in their personal repertoire for fighting empty handed or with other weapons; many of these built off the attributes developed from Balintawak. However, as a system, there is no "Balintawak Empty Hand" per say.



Initially this post was about empty hand techniques, you expressed the logical answer in the sentence.
”So, when we look at Balintawak, we find that there really isn't an "empty hand" system per say.”


Simple and direct, the Balintawak system according to you has no empty hand system. Additionally the knife work didn’t exist in Balintawak. Of course many of the great stick fighters such as Anciong developed empty hand fighting skills. How could they not? From there it now becomes opinions and preferences as to what is most functional.

Again you state:



“However, as a system, there is no "Balintawak Empty Hand" per say.”






So, to ask about "Balintawak empty hand" is almost a loaded question (you slick SOB... ). The real question would be "How does what Manong Ted teaches for Empty hand compare to Modern Arnis?" We'll get to that answer shortly.

Modern Arnis is a self-defense system rather then a dueling system.



Logically there are no duel’s in the United States, duel’s or stick fighting matches are possibly and distinctly different that the real time situations of “spit in you face, sucker punch, or being smacked with a club. Chances are, you won’t have a weapon to defend yourself and if you do you won’t be able to deploy it if it is a surprise confrontation. Professor often said “you have to be aware of where you are and who is looking at you wrong.” Common sense stuff….



Part of the way the Professor Presas taught self-defense was to show how things were "all the same." So, most of Modern Arnis stick work is intended to work the same empty handed (1-12 disarms are a great example). Also, unlike Balintawak, there is a highly developed empty hand system within Modern Arnis. The reason is obvious, and Professor used to say so in his seminars: you aren't going to be walking around the street with a stick.



Exactly as stated above…



The assumption by Professor was also that you weren't going to be carrying a knife or gun either, as he saw these as tools of death rather then tools of self-defense.



I disagree, Professor often discussed the practicality of the knife as well as firearms but did also stated lethal force was a choice every person must make individually.



So, great value was put into the development of the Modern Arnis empty-hand system, because it was assumed that one would need this the most in a self-defense situation. Had Modern Arnis been a stick dueling system, we probably would not have as developed of a system for empty hand as we do today.



Possibly stated, had Professor stayed in the Philippines or in his home town, Modern Arnis would not have established such a dynamic empty hand system. Or, had not Professor seen the value of modernizing the art to be accepted into main stream martial arts, or the value of creating an acceptable positive image with Arnis instead of the stigma of a “Thug method,” it never would have reached worldwide acceptance!

So, what is similar to what Manong Ted teaches for empty hand and Modern Arnis? The "It is all the same" concept is very similar. Manong Ted shows how the empty hand applications are the same as our stick work, and how the skills we have developed with the stick will work if applied to empty hand. This is very much like Modern Arnis. So in concept there are similarities.



I am curious as to who developed the “It is all the same concept first?” Nothing against Mahong Ted or anyone else, if Balintawak did not have empty hand and now it does, it only seems logical that Balintawak practitioners are now drawing concepts of diversity from Modern Arnis.


Technically, however, they can be very different because we utilize different stick techniques in Balintawak then in Modern Arnis. However, Manong Ted's empty hand trapping and striking is very similar to Modern Arnis. The biggest difference is that Manong Ted doesn't leave as much room for interpretation, where as Modern Arnis is very loose comparatively as to what would be considered an effective bait, trap, or strike. The biggest difference between the two arts, though, would be the use of joint locks in Modern Arnis. Manong Ted has joint locks and throws for sure, but Modern Arnis is very extensive with the joint locking and throwing applications due to Small Circle Jujitsu and Japanese Judo/jujitsu influence.



“Also, I would say that Modern Arnis all around has much more of an extensive empty hand system considering that the focus of Balintawak is not empty hand.”



Apples and oranges,,, of course the Jujitsu, Judo, Aikido and later the small circle jujitsu come into the Modern Arnis system,,, thus the connection on being able to preserve a dying art with a negative reputation even in it’s home land. Influencing those Filipinos who were caught up in traditional arts not culturally from the Philippines. Locks are the diversity of function to provide legal alternatives in physical conflicts,,, even if you must continue to strke to gain control, locks offer some defense when legal issues arise.

”Finally, I would like to mention something about what I call a "results based" approach. Classic Balintawak is completely results based in that it is based off what will work in a fight (generally, a stick duel), and that is about it.”



Stick Dueling is not a fight, it is a face to face matching of skill, highly respected for that approach to machismo, but not reality by any stretch…



You learn the basics in Abecedario's and Seguida's; then by the time you are in Corridas you are sparring. The sparring isn't constrained by rules even though it is controlled; therefore it is not geared towards winning within a set of rules, but it is geared towards winning in a fight.



Why has a empty hand post subject come down to stick fighting?

If a technique doesn't work in real time in a controlled Balintawak sparring session, then we KNOW it is not working in a real fight.



More fantasy, completely off subject, real time is on concrete, real time has nothing to do with rules or knowing the “Game is On!” Real time is primarily empty handed fighting or empty handed defense against an armed aggressor,,, even working in Taverns and Biker bars around pool tables for several years have I ever witnessed an equalized match up of impact weapon engagement fighting. Nor do the Military or Police officers I have instructed for almost 20 years shared such a tale of Whoa,,,,

Therefore, we work with Manong Ted or each other if we are together and training to correct the mistake so that it will work in real time against a resisting and unpredictable opponent. This results based approach in Balintawak carries over when Manong Ted teaches empty hand applications.



Paul, as much as you constantly contradict yourself you can’t have it both ways,,, here is your statement a couple paragraph’s back:…


“Also, I would say that Modern Arnis all around has much more of an extensive empty hand system considering that the focus of Balintawak is not empty hand.”


I carry the idea of a results based approach into my Modern Arnis training, as I was blessed to have pretty much always trained this way when I first started Martial Arts in 1985.



This is possibly the most valid point you make in this entire post, Dan Anderson might actually agree with me on this subject, “Some people approach martial arts in an effort to try and learn to become a fighter, others are natural instinctual fighters from day one!”



However, many Modern Arnis people do not train in a results based fashion.



Paul, there is a pattern here, you seek to clarify the weak elements in Modern Arnis and state many Modern Arnis practitioners just don’t “have game.” Do all the Balintawak practitioners you have touched hands or crossed sticks with “have game?” Can you clarify some weak elements in Balintawak, is your actual time in Balintawak equal to the analytical time you use to judge Modern Arnis?



By the nature of how Professor Presas taught, he was very dynamic and often did demonstration friendly techniques on cooperative Uke's, often relying on pain compliance for effect.



Professor's goal was to build the system up, to draw people into the FMA not just Modern Arnis. Do you co-operate with Mahong Ted?
Exactly how do you teach? Do your students cooperate with you when you are teaching or do they resist and make you prove your worth every technique? How do Balintawak teacher's today share the art, like 40 years ago in the Philippines, where 30 people show up and one or two stay after a healthy beating?
I have faced Professor both empty handed and with sticks and not been so co-operative, bottom line I know few people who could actually face Professor any other way,,, Again Dan Anderson might actually agree with me here as well,,, “you missed some serious energy apparently when you were not old enough to feel his wrath, I did not miss it, I got it very directly” “I was never a go along with it kind of guy, still do not (what do ya think Dan?) Professor enjoyed beating my *** because people at seminars knew that was fact. Additionally, Professor trained fighters and he trained people with compassion, he rarely had to prove anything, to try to scare people away from the art he was trying to propagate worldwide.


Remy Presas could fight and taught a lot of things that would work in a fight. However, he also was a dynamic presenter and would often demo things that looked sweet or got a laugh, but wouldn't be something that even he would attempt to pull off if he were attacked.

Yes there is truth there, now are you discussing a duel, a fight, or a self defense confrontation? If Professor was dueling he told me he won many with nothing but “Up and Down, cutting the angle and intercepting the hand.” Knowing the distinction of what to use and when to execute it is what distinguishes a fighter from a practitioner… But honestly I believe Professor could make whatever he taught work and I also believe he believed it as well…more times than not, believing instead of doubting is a stronger link to achieving..



A lot of Modern Arnis is done through drills and demonstrations, where you get a lot of theory rather then an actual understanding of what will work in a fight, under stress, against a resisting and unpredictable opponent.



Paul, somehow you come off with this underline energy of distaste for Modern Arnis or it’s people. What system does not utilize theory to develop it’s methodology? From boxing to firearms, theory leads to developmental skill. No matter how “Billy bad ***” someone is, just a quick shift in environment or situational variables changes even the toughest man’s end result. So you are generalizing to benefit your opinion, just as I am generalizing to establish mine….



So, in Balintawak, empty hand or otherwise, there isn't as much theory as much as there is, "This is what gets the best results."


Honestly Paul, if I was not a Arnis practitioner who also cross trains in a wide spectrum of arts and uses Professor’s “Art within your Art” teaching method to connect all elements of movement and intent, I would not train in Balintawak, I would just go to a boxing gym. You are trying to state the Balintawak is somehow superior in hand skill development without offending anyone,, hummm, I am offended by your pretentious efforts to say:


“So, in Balintawak, empty hand or otherwise there isn't as much theory as much as there is,” "This is what gets the best results."



Modern Arnis on the other hand you will get a great diversity, depending on who you talk too, in theory and claims (and arguments even) as to how it is or how it is supposed to be.



Paul, for whatever reason, diversity seems to not be as important to you as directness, yet diversity offers the ability to read other systems and adapt, even neutralize if you have done your training with intent. Simplicity leads to great skill in execution of directness, yet diversity coupled with time in the arts leads to great skill in execution of directness as well as adaptability. Modern Arnis can be simple and direct or it can be a lifetime adventure that embraces all arts and bridges the gap of glorifying one method over another. In reality it becomes the “Art within the Art” if you choose to put your time into it…



Some Modern Arnis people train their Modern Arnis in a results based fashion, but many don't. So, depending on whom you train with in Modern Arnis, you could run into a great variety of differences in theory and approaches. This diversity in theory doesn't exist so much in Manong Ted's Balintawak due to the very specific way in which he teaches, and due to the results based approach.



The results based approach is a solid, positive direction to gain proficiency, no matter what art, but this original post was to reference empty hand techniques within Modern Arnis. What seems to be conclusive is you have established that:

“However, as a system, there is no "Balintawak Empty Hand" per say.”



Additionally you clarified:



“Also, I would say that Modern Arnis all around has much more of an extensive empty hand system considering that the focus of Balintawak is not empty hand.”


Well, I hope I answered some of your questions.



Take care,



In conclusion I agree with you and your clarification as you described the Balintawak instructed to you by Mahong Ted, “Modern Arnis has more of an extensive empty hand system considering the focus of Balintawak is not empty hand!”



Modern Arnis, the art within your art,,,

Datu Kelly

 

[Cruentus]

Mr. Worden,

I am afraid, fella, that you are out of your element here. You don’t know anything significant about Balintawak other then through 3rd party sources or passing conversations with Professor at best. You don’t know anything about my background or training in Modern Arnis, or my teaching methods, or where I am coming from. You also had a falling out with Professor in 1990 or so, meaning that you have had to piece together aspects of your art through other sources other then Professor himself for over a decade before he passed away. This is not a criticism, this just means that you aren’t going to know where I am coming from, as I am trained in Balintawak and I had been active with Professor during a time when you were not.

So, it is only natural that you would clearly miss some of my points. I blame myself, partially, for perhaps not explaining it well enough to those with limited experience on the subject. That is fine, I don’t mind educating or helping others, so I will be glad to help you.

#1. There was nothing confrontive or wrong with my previous post. You have chosen to transform a simple explaination into a confrontation. Not necessary. But if you really want a confrontation, then as you say, “Game on!”

#2. Let’s talk about what I mean by a results based approach. Modern Arnis is like the “JKD” of Filipino arts, where each person has their own way of interpreting the art and expressing themselves within the art. This is a good thing, I think. So, an instructor may choose to take a results based approach where he is encouraging his students to find out what works against a resisting opponent, or they may choose to stick with drills, anyos, and demo friendly techniques with cooperative training partners, never taking it beyond that level. With Modern Arnis, it is up to the individual. So, you will have many seminar people who will teach only drills and will make their students do the dance of pain, and call it results based when asked so he can say “Me too!”. You will have many others who will actually work with their students to find out what works against resisting and uncooperative opponents. The difference will depend on the instructor.

Manong Ted Buot’s Balintawak is different in that you only have about 15-20 active students at any given time doing only private lessons with him. Each student had to go through an acceptance process. With such small numbers you can control the quality and the methods that you’re advocating much more clearly then the seminar format. So, the few Manong Ted Balintawak students MUST take a results based approach because it is built in the system and in Manong’s teaching method.

So, I am not saying that Modern Arnis is flawed; just that methods will vary per instructor more so then with Manong Ted's students. I stated this because Rob, one of Manong Ted’s students himself, should know this difference before seeking instruction in Modern Arnis. I apologize, for apparently I had not explained this clearly. What I am saying is that there is great diversity in Modern Arnis players where not all of them take a results based approach like Manong Ted. This diversity does not exist so much in a system where you have only 15-20 active students in a given period all doing private lessons. This does not make one system better then the other – just different.

Last thing here: I have to agree with Brian Johns that the late 90’s tapi-tapi era was great for a results based approach in getting people to respond to unpredictable partners via the seminar format.

#3. I don’t have any animosity towards Modern Arnis. I love the art, I love my late teacher, and I still train it actively on a weekly basis. I have a major distaste for the political environment, but that is it. So, I have chosen to support others as teachers rather then tote myself up as a Modern Arnis teacher. I don’t teach my own Modern Arnis program, nor do I teach my own Balintawak program. At this time, I only teach my own proprietary programs through Tulisan Tactical. So, please don’t say that I have this disdain for an art that I have been active in for over 15 years, because it is not true.

#4. Sorry, but Tapi-Tapi was not designed to beat Balintawak. Those of you who are saying this are twisting Professors intent and words around, whether intentionally or not. Professor had developed his own personal fighting style to beat certain Balintawak players who wanted to challenge him. Some of this style of his can be found in Tapi-Tapi. However, he never had to fight Anciong or Buot because they were all friends. The Balintawak people he personally had to fight were further down the lineage line; mostly Delphine Lopez students. So, yes… he tailored his own personal style to beat certain people. A personal style is different then ones martial system. This does not mean that he designed a part of his system to beat another system. The main goal of Tapi-Tapi was to be able to teach stick sparring in a seminar format in a way that would connect with both the experienced and inexperienced player. To say otherwise is being misleading, I think. Professor was more concerned with helping his students progress and be happy then gearing his students up to beat another style. On the first few issues of Martialtalk Magazine I wrote an article on the subject. This is a good read, it is free to download, and it goes through this in much better detail.

#5. “Why has a empty hand post subject come down to stick fighting?”

The reason is because Balintawak is a stickfighting art; so one cannot address the subject without discussing how it connects to stickfighting.

#6. “Stick Dueling is not a fight, it is a face to face matching of skill, highly respected for that approach to machismo, but not reality by any stretch…”

I know very well the difference between competition, stick dueling, and real fighting. This is incidental to my post. Because you bring it up, I am guessing that you don’t know what I mean by a results based approach. Read above….then read it again. Then have someone read it to you, or perhaps explain it if you are still having an issue. That should help out some. On the subject of “reality”, though, a results based approach is tailored to training for the task at hand. That task can be competition, a duel, or a self-defense circumstance. So I can talk about being results based and dueling in the same sentence, and there is nothing fantasy about that. It is not the same as confusing dueling with self-defense.

#7. Kelly… you and others are acting as if I only trained Modern Arnis with Professor before I grew pubes. Get over yourselves. Sure, I may have started in Modern Arnis when I was a preteenager in 1990, but the majority of my training with Professor himself occurred between the age of 16 and 22. I was working with few responsibilities other then myself, so I could travel and follow Professor. I was fighting full contact, in better physical condition then most people, and old enough to take an *** whoopin with the best of them. Dan Anderson is correct in his assumption that I trained directly under Professor, both cooperatively and uncooperatively, and “felt the wrath.” If you think otherwise, you are in fantasyland yourself.

#8. As to how I teach, or how Manong Ted teaches – forget about me for a minute, and I’ll use how Manong Ted does it as an example of creating a positive learning environment through a results based approach. When you have learned the basics and are in Corridas, you are sparring in a controlled fashion. He brings himself down to your level, and lets you move. When you screw up and fail to counter a move, he slows it down and works with you so you can resolve the problem. Once resolved, he “puts it back into the mixing bowl” where he will randomly test you on that technique again, real time in sparring.

This is characteristic of a results based approach - the instructor brings himself to the students level to let him move, and helps correct mistakes from what fails to get results from there.

This does not mean that there isn’t a place for drills, anyos, or demo’s with a cooperative Uke. These are important tools as well. But, I feel that is that is all you do with your students, then you are doing them and yourself a disservice. This is just my opinion and you can feel free to disagree.


#9. "I disagree, Professor often discussed the practicality of the knife as well as firearms but did also stated lethal force was a choice every person must make individually."

I agree that he left it up to the individual to choose. However, notice that he did not carry a knife or gun? He expressed to me on numerous occasions, specifically on the knife, that it was for killing. He did not teach knife much publicly during the time you were away from the system because, as he explained to me when he taught me some stuff in private when I asked him the question, “De knipe is not por self-defense!” So, he focused only on empty hand solutions to the knife in seminars.

I disagree with him on this, but I do understand where he is coming from with his experience, and I respect it, and I do not try to change his point of view.

10. “Some people approach martial arts in an effort to try and learn to become a fighter, others are natural instinctual fighters from day one!”

So, what are you trying to say here, Kelly? If your trying to tell me something specifically, be a man, cowboy up, and spit it out.

Conclusion:
Well...there is 10 points of light for you. I hope I clarified a number of points that you addressed, Mr. Worden. I know it can be frustrating when someone speaks over your head, and you feel like your not a part of the loop. So, hopefully I was a help, and that you better understand my points now.

Also, I know that some of my comments may seem a bit abrasive, confrontive, or sarcastic. I don’t apologize for that – remember…. you cast the first stone.

Have a good evening,

Paul Janulis

 

[Cruentus]

Rob:

There are some people in Modern Arnis who tend to try to turn everything into a wiennie measuring contest. This is why I don't post here much anymore. As you could see, I give a detailed response in a non-confrontive manner, and instead of respectfully asking me to clarify myself if there was a misunderstanding, I get insecure jerk-offs trying to turn it into a confrontation. I just chose to not "take the high road" this time.

McConnell:

You and Worden trying to pull the 'senior card' is not only getting real old, but it continues to make yourselves look really insecure and weak. Time when I was a "kid" has long passed. Some of you only wish you could say, "I'm a young adult in my late 20's, in my physical prime, and I have studied martial arts for almost my entire life." If you guys are having a mid-life crisis, buy a sports car. But don't take your problems out on me.

I address this with you publically only because this is now the second time in this thread that you have tried to pull the senior card on me, publically. The rest of what you say I can deal with privately, per your PM.

Thank you,

Paul

 

[Datu Kelly S. Worden]

Mr. Worden,

I am afraid, fella, that you are out of your element here. You don’t know anything significant about Balintawak other then through 3rd party sources or passing conversations with Professor at best. You don’t know anything about my background or training in Modern Arnis, or my teaching methods, or where I am coming from. You also had a falling out with Professor in 1990 or so, meaning that you have had to piece together aspects of your art through other sources other then Professor himself for over a decade before he passed away. This is not a criticism, this just means that you aren’t going to know where I am coming from, as I am trained in Balintawak and I had been active with Professor during a time when you were not.

Hey Fella Paul,,,,

Doubtful I am out of my element,,, How many times do you state Balintawak has not empty hands per say? Datu Tim in his posts states a similar point,,, read it if you wish,,,

Regarding my passing conversations with Professor, again you make conclusions you know nothing about, There were many people Professor specifically shared his insight and physical training into Balintawak, Fred Shadian, Rocky Paswik, myself, Irwin Carmichael, Rick Mitchell and the list is longer than you can probably imagine,,, why? Because we all asked for that connection and information,,, of course you were only 12 years old so I guess you were just happy playing hop scotch and tonka toys,,,, Referencing my separation from Professor has little validity here, yes we parted ways, but I was already Datu ranked and certified in multiple systems. Professor did teach Tapi tapi at that time and I got my share plus a whole lot more from, Es’pada e daga, his staff material, much of his dumog, specifically more knife than anyone else in Modern Arnis. He appointed me Senior BladeMaster of Modern Arnis years ago,,, it’s still true today. Our separation was hardly a decade, get your facts straight,,, I have never stopped teaching Modern Arnis,,,

So, it is only natural that you would clearly miss some of my points. I blame myself, partially, for perhaps not explaining it well enough to those with limited experience on the subject. That is fine, I don’t mind educating or helping others, so I will be glad to help you.

Paul, I had the great experience of reviewing your so called Combative Knife video, do not think by any stretch of you childish mind you will school me on or off the floor, I have seen you move, teach, and present,,, your skill is not even close to juniors in my system. I will credit you with being a great keyboard commando,,, I say this only because I was not the only person who evaluated your knife video presentation. This current questionable forum exchange is nothing more than your hurt feelings of not getting the candy kiss replies you asked for in your disclaimer,,, as I mentioned in my review reply, after 20 years of reviewing video tapes professionally for magazines and such never have I had the author submit a list of disclaimers and try to guide myself and Jim Keating into positive answers,,, it don’t work that way Paul… educate yourself before trying to school someone 20 years your senior….



Let me share some of your information that has lead to your child like tantrum you are currently propagating:

Dear Mr. Worden and Mr. Keating,

I hope everything is going well, as all is well here in the Great Lakes. I apologize in advance for the lengthy E-mail ahead.

Boy, Paul you are correct this is more than I communicate with my own students and consumes more time than I have to offer most anyone...

First off, I never received your e-mail, Mr. Keating sent it to me,,, you apparently e-mailed it to the wrong address.

I am contacting you two because it is my understanding that you had a chance to view my video that I had sent over to Iraq with the LRS (Long Range Surveillance) and 425th infantry. I was hoping, and this is especially for you Kelly because I had talked a little bit with Jim on this almost a year ago, that we could have touched base on this prior to you analyzing the video. The reason is I have quite a few disclaimers for you guys that need to be considered. For the sake of brevity in an already long e-mail, I will go over some of these here by number:

Paul, Jim and I have been reviewing videos for as long as people have been recording them on VHS, for magazines, student evaluations, and sometimes people such as yourself who are not directly associated to us in lineage. Yet I believe this is the first time we have been guided with disclaimers or instructed how to evaluate a video tape, think about it. Generally speaking this is not much different than a review for a magazine, or a consultation for technical direction, Jim and I provide those services consistently in the knife and martial arts industry and are paid for those services.

We pretty much disregard disclaimers, excuses, or tips on how to view any material that is presented to us. In reality that should be our choice or people should not sent it... by the way weather instructed or requested to, we have shared literally most everything we receive in our over 20 years of brotherhood. This is true with those associated in our circle, if a person claims to instruct Military, law enforcement, or government agents we share the material with them to truly make sure we as professional instructors do not evaluate or judge a product inappropriately. You stated that you expected the soldiers you sent the video to, to make copies and share the video information. I see no difference for Jim and I to do the same, we have and will share with other professionals in those industries if we feel they should be aware of material instructed or claims being represented.

#1. There was nothing confrontive or wrong with my previous post. You have chosen to transform a simple explaination into a confrontation. Not necessary. But if you really want a confrontation, then as you say, “Game on!”

Okay Paul if you say so, I would have thought the opportunity to show up in Ohio after my response to your video review request would be enough to have you come face to face with me,,, but I do understand you enjoy the comfort and authority a keyboard offers you,,,,

#2. Let’s talk about what I mean by a results based approach. Modern Arnis is like the “JKD” of Filipino arts, where each person has their own way of interpreting the art and expressing themselves within the art. This is a good thing, I think. So, an instructor may choose to take a results based approach where he is encouraging his students to find out what works against a resisting opponent, or they may choose to stick with drills, anyos, and demo friendly techniques with cooperative training partners, never taking it beyond that level. With Modern Arnis, it is up to the individual. So, you will have many seminar people who will teach only drills and will make their students do the dance of pain, and call it results based when asked so he can say “Me too!”. You will have many others who will actually work with their students to find out what works against resisting and uncooperative opponents. The difference will depend on the instructor.

Manong Ted Buot’s Balintawak is different in that you only have about 15-20 active students at any given time doing only private lessons with him. Each student had to go through an acceptance process. With such small numbers you can control the quality and the methods that you’re advocating much more clearly then the seminar format. So, the few Manong Ted Balintawak students MUST take a results based approach because it is built in the system and in Manong’s teaching method.

So, I am not saying that Modern Arnis is flawed; just that methods will vary per instructor more so then with Manong Ted's students. I stated this because Rob, one of Manong Ted’s students himself, should know this difference before seeking instruction in Modern Arnis. I apologize, for apparently I had not explained this clearly. What I am saying is that there is great diversity in Modern Arnis players where not all of them take a results based approach like Manong Ted. This diversity does not exist so much in a system where you have only 15-20 active students in a given period all doing private lessons. This does not make one system better then the other – just different.

Last thing here: I have to agree with Brian Johns that the late 90’s tapi-tapi era was great for a

results based approach in getting people to respond to unpredictable partners via the seminar format.

Paul if you don’t comprehend my response, Could be because you missed the training in the 1980’s, specifically foundational tapi tapi, es’pada’y daga, and other elements…

#3. I don’t have any animosity towards Modern Arnis. I love the art, I love my late teacher, and I still train it actively on a weekly basis. I have a major distaste for the political environment, but that is it. So, I have chosen to support others as teachers rather then tote myself up as a Modern Arnis teacher. I don’t teach my own Modern Arnis program, nor do I teach my own Balintawak program. At this time, I only teach my own proprietary programs through Tulisan Tactical. So, please don’t say that I have this disdain for an art that I have been active in for over 15 years, because it is not true.

Sure Paul,,, gee if it was only I who thought that, I would believe you,,, but that is not the case,,, also some of your long winded personal conversations I have had with you would appear you are contradicting yourself again (yes he called multiple times, kind of like Tom Carnes)

#4. Sorry, but Tapi-Tapi was not designed to beat Balintawak. Those of you who are saying this are twisting Professors intent and words around, whether intentionally or not. Professor had developed his own personal fighting style to beat certain Balintawak players who wanted to challenge him. Some of this style of his can be found in Tapi-Tapi. However, he never had to fight Anciong or Buot because they were all friends. The Balintawak people he personally had to fight were further down the lineage line; mostly Delphine Lopez students. So, yes… he tailored his own personal style to beat certain people. A personal style is different then ones martial system. This does not mean that he designed a part of his system to beat another system. The main goal of Tapi-Tapi was to be able to teach stick sparring in a seminar format in a way that would connect with both the experienced and inexperienced player. To say otherwise is being misleading, I think. Professor was more concerned with helping his students progress and be happy then gearing his students up to beat another style. On the first few issues of Martialtalk Magazine I wrote an article on the subject. This is a good read, it is free to download, and it goes through this in much better detail.

Whatever you want to believe,,,,

#5. “Why has a empty hand post subject come down to stick fighting?”

The reason is because Balintawak is a stickfighting art; so one cannot address the subject without discussing how it connects to stickfighting.

Now I am really getting an education,,, thanks Fella,,,,

#6. “Stick Dueling is not a fight, it is a face to face matching of skill, highly respected for that approach to machismo, but not reality by any stretch…”

I know very well the difference between competition, stick dueling, and real fighting. This is incidental to my post. Because you bring it up, I am guessing that you don’t know what I mean by a results based approach. Read above….then read it again. Then have someone read it to you, or perhaps explain it if you are still having an issue. That should help out some. On the subject of “reality”, though, a results based approach is tailored to training for the task at hand. That task can be competition, a duel, or a self-defense circumstance. So I can talk about being results based and dueling in the same sentence, and there is nothing fantasy about that. It is not the same as confusing dueling with self-defense.

Correct Paul, there is no confusion,,, but yes I should have someone read it to me,,,, you are so deep, much like the technical presentation on your video tape….

#7. Kelly… you and others are acting as if I only trained Modern Arnis with Professor before I grew pubes. Get over yourselves. Sure, I may have started in Modern Arnis when I was a preteenager in 1990, but the majority of my training with Professor himself occurred between the age of 16 and 22. I was working with few responsibilities other then myself, so I could travel and follow Professor. I was fighting full contact, in better physical condition then most people, and old enough to take an *** whoopin with the best of them. Dan Anderson is correct in his assumption that I trained directly under Professor, both cooperatively and uncooperatively, and “felt the wrath.” If you think otherwise, you are in fantasyland yourself.

Yes Paul,,, Fantasy land has gotten me respect worldwide from more seniors in the art than you can even begin to count,,, also the Special Forces Contracts I receive are all because of my deep understanding of fantasy.

#8. As to how I teach, or how Manong Ted teaches – forget about me for a minute, and I’ll use how Manong Ted does it as an example of creating a positive learning environment through a results based approach. When you have learned the basics and are in Corridas, you are sparring in a controlled fashion. He brings himself down to your level, and lets you move. When you screw up and fail to counter a move, he slows it down and works with you so you can resolve the problem. Once resolved, he “puts it back into the mixing bowl” where he will randomly test you on that technique again, real time in sparring.

This is characteristic of a results based approach - the instructor brings himself to the students level to let him move, and helps correct mistakes from what fails to get results from there.

This does not mean that there isn’t a place for drills, anyos, or demo’s with a cooperative Uke. These are important tools as well. But, I feel that is that is all you do with your students, then you are doing them and yourself a disservice. This is just my opinion and you can feel free to disagree.

Well Paul, check out any one of my 25 plus internationally acclaimed video programs,,, hummm if they were a dis-service I guess they wouldn’t sell would they,,, also receiving great reviews,,,, get a grip Paul,,, your attempts to discredit me only make you look the fool….




#9. "I disagree, Professor often discussed the practicality of the knife as well as firearms but did also stated lethal force was a choice every person must make individually."

I agree that he left it up to the individual to choose. However, notice that he did not carry a knife or gun? He expressed to me on numerous occasions, specifically on the knife, that it was for killing. He did not teach knife much publicly during the time you were away from the system because, as he explained to me when he taught me some stuff in private when I asked him the question, “De knipe is not por self-defense!” So, he focused only on empty hand solutions to the knife in seminars.

I disagree with him on this, but I do understand where he is coming from with his experience, and I respect it, and I do not try to change his point of view.

Apparently you were left out of the loop, probably because Professor knew you were to immature to be trained in ‘da knipe….

10. “Some people approach martial arts in an effort to try and learn to become a fighter, others are natural instinctual fighters from day one!”

So, what are you trying to say here, Kelly? If your trying to tell me something specifically, be a man, cowboy up, and spit it out.

Gee Paul,,, this is real funny, you should not be so insecure, I was actually complementing you as one of those who is a natural instinctual fighter, at least from all your keyboard running,,, but if you missed it then you might have to re-think where you stand,, apparently in you mind you were ‘da other guy?

Be a Man? Cowboy up? Spit it out?

Hell Paul you get a free opportunity to come and put me in my place in Ohio,,, talk about not being a man, not having the balls to cowboy up, let’s let the forum people decide who is avoiding who, little fella keyboard commando…



Also a note on presentation: Understand, fella’s, until recently I have never been interested in improving my presentation skills. Growing up in the Detroit area and dealing with family members in organized crime (Grandfather involved in the IRA and Irish rings in Detroit, both him and my uncle having been involved in many fights and a few shootings, and father involved in Siamese organized crime - btw keep this between us, K?), and dealing with a mixture of Detroit thugs and backcountry Michigan hicks, believe me when I say this….my interest was in fighting and being a better combatant, or working with someone one-on-one or in a small group to be a better combatant. Perhaps you two can relate to having been confronted with guns, knives, and the like… and having had to face the reality of hospitalizing people or having cut someone or hurt someone yourself to protect yourself or others, etc.? I don’t know about you guys, but when that is your reality, presentation is about the last thing you give a **** about. Of course, now life is much simpler, and I am more interested in helping others…and presentation plays a role here, and is something I am currently interested in improving.



This last paragraph is off the chart,,, I am not a "Fella" and neither is Mr. Keating,,, would I call Professor Presas and Wally Jay "Fellas? Do you think you are one of our "Peers?" You may not like my opinion, but I assure you I am friends with or respected by every top knife instructor worldwide from Jim Keating , Mike Janich, Ernie Emerson, Hock Hocheim, Rich Ryan, Bob Casper, Mike De Alba, Gary O’neil, Ron Baliki, Dan Inosanto, Pete Kautz, few question my judgment or honesty in training. None of them refer to Mr. Keating or I as “Fellas.”

Mom, Dad, and Grandpa's experiences are of no concern here, stay focused, Mr. Keating and I have been around the block more than once,,, we have lived the streets and know the stories of many old timers, some dead, some still doing time for crossing the line of society. We choose not to discuss it and we question others who openly toss the issues into the fray for nothing more than a simple video review. Honestly Paul, Keating and I have been involved in martial arts for over 40 years, that would make you minus 15 years old when we both began our training. We are both over 50 years old, high mileaged and tired of chest pounding. I can read a man on video as well as in person, I don't see the seasoned player you are portraying yourself as. This is not an insult unless you choose to take it as such,,, I am saying you need to temper your words to match your age. You may be fast, strong, smooth, dynamic, and even deadly, I just did not see it on the video as such, nor did the SF Soldiers.

But as you have mentioned, it all “comes out on the floor!” I am not upset, just disappointed that you feel you somehow have earned or deserve the same credibility Mr. Keating and I have worked endlessly to establish.

I am really looking forward to you attending the Ohio seminar, please bring you’re students, the students are the true reflection of a teachers worth. I have seen you announce “I’ll be there” and then later,,, the situation just didn’t work out. I think professionally it is a positive move for you to step up and attend. As a matter of professional courtesy, if you bring several students you are welcome to attend for free.



Conclusion:
Well...there is 10 points of light for you. I hope I clarified a number of points that you addressed, Mr. Worden. I know it can be frustrating when someone speaks over your head, and you feel like your not a part of the loop. So, hopefully I was a help, and that you better understand my points now.



Paul for you to speak over my head you would have to get off the floor or stand on a very tall ladder, your short man syndrome is showing through,,, What I do understand is you spend more time typing self glorifying opinions as a short “little fella” keyboard commando than you

do physically training.



#3. Because of the nature of the urgency of the material, and that I would have difficulty contacting and getting mail to these guys once they were in the ****, I crammed as much material as possible in with a few hours. Even still, I had forgotten to put in some stuff. Regardless, the point was to give them something to TRAIN WITH while over there, piece by piece. So they would watch maybe 15 minutes of footage, and they would train “live” with a concept or idea for an hour. Something that wasn’t touched upon on film as much as it was in training was that I advocated taking things piece by piece and putting it into sparring scenarios, so they could assimilate the skills as quickly as possible, keep what they could fight with for the field, and set aside what they couldn’t for a later time.

Yes it was apparent that pieces were missing, but it is an issue of a cohesive format that can be assimilated and learned that is the real issue,,, take a piece here and take a piece there,,, it was not really the missing that concerned me but the initial layout and format. Have you ever actually seen any of Mr. Keating videos? His assistants are extremely skilled and provide a much more uniformed format in their own attribute development than I seen presented by you, I can appreciate your desire to run at the front of the pack, but I don't see it.

For those missing all the pages to Paul’s anger management problems here is a continuation of his disclaimers I and Jim Keating were instructed to follow…. As if the Siamese Mafia wasn’t enough to make you choke on your bubble gum….

#4. This may seem incidental to you guys, but it is important to me. I was pretty much a fat *** in that video. I was power lifting at the time, and I weighed around 240 lbs. at 5’ 71/2”. I could bench and squat a lot, but I was carrying WAY too much weight. I mention this because how many tub-asses do we see in the martial arts who have trouble moving, trying to tote up their expertise? Too many, in my opinion, and I hope not to be classified as one of these. I now weigh a much more comfortable and lean weight of 215 lb.

Some of the deadliest men I have ran with in the knife community have served their time as young guns,,, now overweight, older, and sometimes easily winded, they function as "Wounded Bears, " I ask, "What is more dangerous than a wounded bear?" Answer= A man who knows he has 30 seconds of go in a real conflict and can't afford mistakes or excuses,,, You are only 27 years old, don't make excuses it has no merit, we are dealt the cards at the time of our actions, excuses carry no weight in the real world,,,,

So, to highlight the positives and negatives:

Negatives: My video production was ******, as was my presentation of the material. Since this video (which was well over a year now) I have been working on refining my previously sucky presentation skills, but as always there is room for improvement..

Positives: I achieved my goal of helping out guys who have been fighting for our country. The material, however haphazardly thrown together and ******, worked in the technical sense. A handful of these guys with access both first and second hand to the material had effectively used the skills they developed in combat. In essence the material saved lives, which is the most I could have asked for.

Another positive is that it also gives me the groundwork to improve my presentation abilities so that down the line when I do actually produce something for commercial use, I am able to put out something of quality.

I have been very critical of my work in a good way, and I can say that I am a lot better of a presenter now then I was a year ago. However, as we all do, there is still room for improvement.



You know the answers yourself, yet you ask us for some technical response? I don't believe this is a fair option, if we received this production as a Magazine evaluation we wouldn't even bother, it would have sat on the shelf even longer... What is the real purpose of even sending it to us, you are not our student, you formed your own evaluation and tried to guide us down a path of understanding your method through your eyes. You know you have a lot of work ahead of you, I suggest you train in a actual knife system and learn how to organize the material you plan on presenting. Mr. Keating, Mike Janich, or myself did not just throw stuff together, our results are from years of technical research. Jim and I have specifically been instructing knife for 20 years, I am confused as how you and others sometimes feel the credibility is just handed out and not hard earned.

In light of what I just explained, I was hoping to get some good constructive criticism from you guys. I am sure that you are probably thinking that my video basically sucked, given that I didn’t have the chance to explain the above before hand. Now that I have, hopefully you guys don’t think negatively of me, but rather that you see it in light of what the original purpose of the video was, the success that it offered our soldiers, and most importantly that you see that I am well aware that I need to improve in a number of areas.



How does an explanation change visual facts and physical presentation?,,, there again, we are professionals and do not need to be guided to evaluate a video tape.

I am not thinking negatively of you, I think you are stepping outside your technical capabilities, that is my professional opinion. I still seek guidance from Pioneers such as Sonny Umpad, Jesse Glover and others, most importantly, Jim Keating, Mike Janich and a host of others who are far beyond your technical skill maintain a communication network to maintain balance in life and our own prospective of what our true value as combatants truly is worth. It is other teachers who qualify a person as a teacher, not ourselves....

That is why I am really glad that you two had the chance to view my material. You guys are pioneers in the tactical knife world, and seasoned instructors. You both have much more experience then me at putting video’s in production and doing large venues and seminars. Among other things, you guys are experts in the art of presentation, where comparatively I am a novice when it comes to presentation. So I was really hoping that I could get some good positive feedback as well as constructive criticism from you, and some good suggestions and mentoring from you, as I respect your positions as veteran players in this field. I of course will try to reciprocate where and when I can (even if that just means being a advocate for the work you guys are doing).



Believe it or not, negative feedback is much more important in the real world than a "Good 'ol boy" pat on the back,,, I am as honest with you as I am with anyone who asks the same questions and provided similar material, I don't consider it negative either, I took the time, my time to provide you with valid answers and views. You should consider honesty no matter how harsh a positive response, and a direction to evaluate and grow from.

Thanks again for your time, and for putting up with this painfully long e-mail. Please E-mail me back when you feel it would be a good time for me to call you so I can hopefully get some guidance and critiques. Feel free to call me anytime as well. Also, I apologize for not sending this e-mail sooner. I have been doing some work in homeland security and private security (on contract) developing training programs and doing efficiency assessments, so I have been incredibly busy.

One of the individuals who viewed the video with questionable comments is a Senior advisor for a top agency contracting for the State Department in Iraq, a 24 year veteran of Special Forces, trained the security task force at the Presidential Palace in Afghanistan, was director of training in Korea for 1st. SF Group interacting with the Rock Army for 7 years running. I am curious after he viewed your video “how he could be questioning your presentation?” This is a man who is now facing a 14 month assignment in Iraq, his 4th such duty since leaving active duty Special Forces. With his diverse background and real world experience in 18 different countries, you both are doing similar work? Knowing these men as I do, Sorry, I find it hard to believe...



Good Luck, Datu







Also, I know that some of my comments may seem a bit abrasive, confrontive, or sarcastic. I don’t apologize for that – remember…. you cast the first stone.

Have a good evening,

Paul Janulis

__________________
Woof...

TULISAN Tactical Training
http://www.geocities.com/paul_janulis/Home.html





No apologies necessary, actually I do want to thank you for assisting me to realize what a waste of time some forums can truly be. Apparently with a highly skilled fella like Paul tell’in it like it is, my opinion or comments are not needed on Martial Talk, I guess Video Production is my medium so I won’t be returning to Martial Talk,,, as always,,, Little Paul’ie can have the last say….



Additionally I want to inform everyone that in a very short time (no offense fella) I will have a new addition to my website,,, it will be a video review section with live footage of videos sent to me for review and comments, look for downloadable segments of footage in an upcoming public offering of Paul’s Combat Knife video. This will also be followed with reviews from some of the top knife instructor in the United States who will be forwarded DVD footage of that footage for their review. Other video reviews and public comments will also be offered, but fist things first. An upcoming “On the Edge” Radio Show will also feature an audio review conducted as a public service for those without internet access.



In case you really want to Cowboy up Paulie, you are welcome to attend the Water and Steel camp for free,,,,, if you can’t make there, I’ll be coming to Michigan for a seminar in the coming months,,, stop by, love to chat…



Datu Kelly



Gee, just a little message from Roland Dantes



I HAVE PERSONNALY SEEN, OBSERVED, AND EVALUATED YOUR CAPABILITIES,
SKILLLS, AND THOROUGH KNOWLEDGE IN WHAT YOU HAVE ACCUMULATED OVER THE YEARS OF RESEARCH INCORPORATING IT INTO A UNIQUE SYLLABUS OF A SYSTEM YOU SHOULD BE PROUD OF...

THIS IS WHY THE LATE PROFESSOR PRESAS HONORED YOU ....AND GAVE YOU THE DISTINCTION OF BEING...THE FIRST AMERICAN HE AWARDED WITH THE TITLE OF ...DATU IN MODERN ARNIS...IN RECOGNITION OF YOUR ACCOMPLISHMENTS !

I HAVE THE HIGHEST RESPECT FOR YOU AND YOUR ORGANIZATION ...AND ON BEHALF OF THE MOTHER ORGANIZATION.. NOT JUST MODERN ARNIS...BUT..
ARNIS PHILIPPINES ( 33rd member of the PHILIPPINE OLYMPIC COMMITTEE )...
AND THE DULY RECOGNIZED ORGANIZATION BY THE PHILIPPINE GOVERNMENT...
WHICH IS NOT A PRIVATE ENTITY...AND IN MY POSTION AS CHAIRMAN FOR
INTERNATIONAL AFFAIRS...

CARRY ON BROTHER !...

YOU ARE A TRIBUTE TO THE PHILIPPINE MARTIAL ARTS !



Roland Dantes

 

[Cruentus]

*Warning: Below is not a threat to violence or an attempt to break Martialtalk rules in any way*

Datu Worden,

Let’s bring everyone up to date, then let’s review your actions…

When I did that video 1 year and a half ago, it was meant as a supplementary knife video for some military folks I had been working with. It was not a professional production, nor did I ever present that it was a professional production that I would sell or market to anyone. I had a week to shoot a video before it would be difficult to mail to my friends in Iraq. I put together something on the fly, with no editing, no script, and a video camera in my backyard. I was only there to transfer some knife basics, and to build off skills previously worked on in person. I was not there to demonstrate my skills, or do a sweet demo. That would have been a disservice to these guys, rather then transferring some basic knife skills.

The video, for what it was, did the job it was intended for, and worked well. This was the feedback I got from people who used the material while in Iraq. These people matter more then you or your agenda. There was nothing wrong with what I did, Kelly. The only thing wrong here is your behavior.

I had a private conversation with Mr. Keating over the phone, and I had sent him my video per our conversation because he offered to give me a review, and to tell me what I could clean up and do better if sometime down the line I were to want to put a video into production. Unfortunately, I also said that it would be O.K. if he wanted to show anyone else for feedback….which was a mistake on my part.

Fast forward…Your student George Hoover e-mails me asking for a copy of my video tape, saying that you and him would like to do a “respectful review.” I told him that it wasn’t a production quality video, but I would see about copying it and sending it if I had the time. I never sent it…because the reality is you have a history of being a prick and trying to push people around. I didn’t trust you.

Fast forward to almost a year later, to around June of 05.’ You don’t like my tone in one of my posts in your forum. So, you decide to confront me and pull your senior card as you have tried here. You tell me publicly in your forum that you are going to Jim Keating’s house to review my video. This is a bold faced lie, as you weren’t going to his house, you had called him over the phone and asked for a copy. He gave it to you. You watched it, and proceeded to talk crap about me and the video behind my back to all your buddies….word got to me from a Remy Junior seminar that this was the case.

So far, you sought out and obtained some of my material that is NOT PUBLIC MATERIAL against my will, and you slammed me behind my back. Real ethical, Datu. This is what caused me to send my E-mail to you and Mr. Keating; the one you posted here for all to see. I hadn’t talked with Keating much about my tape since I sent it, and you were talking crap, so I figured that now would be a good time to get a review.

Mr. Keating sent me positive feedback. You sent me the garbage that you cut and pasted here for all to see. Again…cutting and pasting a PRIVATE COMMUNICATION for all to see WITHOUT MY PERMISSION.

Now, you plan to put up footage of my PRIVATE MATERIAL WITHOUT MY PERMISSION. No doubt that you will cut it up, find the parts with the biggest mistakes or presentation flaws, and use your PR tactics to slander me, misrepresent me, and belittle me as much as you can.

This was how you treated me - all after I was willing to give you support, go to some of your seminars and bring students, and see what you had to offer. Prior to you pulling this stunt, I had been nothing but nice and respectful to you. Why didn’t I go to Ohio when I said I would prior to your “video review” stunt? Why would I spend my money and time to train with a jerk like yourself, after your unprofessional and unethical behavior towards me? What could I possibly get out of such an experience? That is the question that you need to ask yourself here.

Yet, I kept it off the public eye, and figured I would let it die. You sir are the one who decided to confront me here, and bring this to the public forum in an unprofessional manner.

I have watched you fling around your utter B.S. over your background, Remy Presas, Modern Arnis, your extensive Military training, and so forth. I have witnessed you using your networking friends and you dirty marketing tactics to attack people. I have watched you continually try to bring other people down so you can hide your own insecurities. Well, this has gone on far enough.

You have used what you have against me… a Datu title, a bigger network, and negative PR to try to bring me down. Well, you have forced me to use what I have to bring you down…and that is superior martial abilities.

You said, “do not think by any stretch of you childish mind you will school me on or off the floor, I have seen you move, teach, and present,,, your skill is not even close to juniors in my system.”

So, let’s put that to the test. I challenge you to a “legally allowed” fight. We can sign waivers, and play whatever game you wish. Do you want to Box? Kickbox? Grapple or MMA? Stick fight…padded or not? Maybe training knives and fencing masks will suit your fancy?

The game is up to you. You put on this front that you’re this big badass former “Street” thug. You seem to think that I suck so badly, and that “I am not even close to your juniors.” So, let’s prove it. I don’t make a habit of challenging people because I have nothing to prove; but with your continued slander and dishonest attempts to discredit and undermine me; you obviously have something that you’re trying to prove regarding me. So, let’s prove it like men and do it on the floor, instead of seeing who can bark the loudest across media.

I am not going to make a special trip across the country to have you back down from me and try to coax your students into ganging up on me in Washington State. But hey, you said you’d be in Ohio or Michigan coming soon right? Let’s do it there…. You pick the date, and the game, Kelly.

This is not a “keyboard warrior” challenge, sir. This is not a threat to physical violence, or me stomping up and down and yelling, “I’m going to kick you ***!” Those would be empty threats that would be both illegal and against MT rules. This is a real deal challenge where we obey the laws of the state and sign waivers. Are you willing to back up your fat mouth, Kelly?

Kelly, you have a lot of supporters in your little pond, and a seemingly big network. You know what though? I think the NSI emporor isn’t wearing any clothes, and I am not afraid to call it out. You see, I have had the opportunity to review quite a few hours of video footage from you…from you old stuff to your most recent taped footage. And you know what….you’re an average knife player and martial artist at best. I have seen you “move” on video….and you know what? There is nothing that you have that is better then what I have in terms of combative skill. Not knife work, not Modern Arnis….nothing. And, you know deep inside your insecure mind that this is true, which is why I am sure you will come up with a whole list of excuses as to why you won’t have a contest of skills with me. Instead you’ll cower behind your marketing, your keyboard, your radio show, and whatever else you can use to obtusify the fact that you are afraid of me. You are afraid of me being successful as a martial arts instructor. But more importantly, you are afraid of a physical contest. Because in a physical contest…..you will most likely lose embarrassingly against me.

So, are you ready to back up your words? Or are you all talk and marketing tactics?

I have watched you go after people in a dishonest and spineless manner for too long. So….how does it feel to have someone coming after you?

Paul Janulis

P.S. I know that even though you said you were done on Martialtalk, you will be reading this. And I will post it on your forum. And I will e-mail it to you. And I will eventually put it up on a special page on my website. This will not go away until we resolve our issues, either like professionals or otherwise.

 

[Mao]

janulus,
Don't bother pm ing me. I've had enough of your disrespect. I tried to make a valid point, without malice, that being that you are not peers with people like Chuck Gauss, Ken Smith, myself and others as you seem to think you are.
If you don't agree with that, too bad. You were a little kid. You still act like one. I tried to be decent and take this to pm but it seems that you are the one wanting to measure weenies. If you think that your in better shape, better trained, a peer or whatever you want to believe then prove it. Oh yeah, you already opted not to do that. Good choice.
My point was not to prove who was "senior" but to show that your perspective would naturally be different because you were so young. Get over it. Grow up.
I have been training for 33 years now in several styles, most of my life. You have nothing to tell or show me that I have not already seen or learned a long time ago. I know that if you ask the majority of those in the IMAF that knew you, they'd agree. Grow a pair and ask them.

Tim,
Actually, I have known you to mix words. Always to speak your mind though.

First of all, I’m not referring to anyone posting on this thread. Several of us whom are from the Remy-Buot lineage have heard this in our travels and it frustrates us. That was my bad. I’m just blowing off steam.

No worries.

my quote: I don't like the sound of the statement that modern Arnis is watered down Balintawak.

yours: I never said that.

Then what's this?:“Tapi – Tapi is a great program in Modern Arnis, but one should understand that it is watered down Balintawak.”

me: I admit that I don't know Balintawak, so I am using the previous Balintawak player’s posts as the example.

I was using the words of your fellow balintawak people. If they're wrong, sorry.

me: I just don't think that anyone can say that one is necessarily better than the other. I don't think Tim is saying that.

you:So what’s the point?

So the point is exactly what I wrote: I just don't think that anyone can say that one is necessarily better than the other. Pretty simple.

I think Tim did a decent job of being fair to both styles, except for some of the wording.


It’s called being dyslexic.

I wasn't refering to where the word were or spelling, I was refering to what you said, which is what my response was about.
I understand your crankiness. I hope your day gets better.

Dan Mc.

 

[Toasty]

Hi Dan,

How would you compare the M.A. empty hands to the Balintawak empty hands? - similarities/differences...

{actually - Tim, Paul or Rich - you guys can answer this too... LOL}



Also, a question for Datu Worden:

I noticed you mentioned in another post about "the Michigan Kuntao guys"... any information regarding them & their location would be greatly appreciated.
(also - what systemn of Kuntao).

Thanks in advance

Rob

 

[Dan Anderson]

Hi Dan,

How would you compare the M.A. empty hands to the Balintawak empty hands? - similarities/differences...
{actually - Tim, Paul or Rich - you guys can answer this too... LOL}
Thanks in advance

Rob

Hey Rob,

Tim, Paul, or Rich will have to field this question. I have had the least experience in balintawak under Manong Ted due to the distance between us. I haven't seen any balintawak empty hands. Guys?

Yours,
Dan

 

[Guro Harold]

Hi Dan,

How would you compare the M.A. empty hands to the Balintawak empty hands? - similarities/differences...

{actually - Tim, Paul or Rich - you guys can answer this too... LOL}



Also, a question for Datu Worden:

I noticed you mentioned in another post about "the Michigan Kuntao guys"... any information regarding them & their location would be greatly appreciated.
(also - what systemn of Kuntao).

Thanks in advance

Rob

Hi Toasty,

Great question!!!

I am curious of how much of the empty-handed techniques come from Balintawak as well. Also, what are the roots of the Sinawalli/Balintawak boxing drill sets and what was the influence of Panantukan ("Filipino Boxing") to the system?

-Palusut

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

Rob,

Can't help you on your balintawak question, but the Michigan
Kuntaw guys are based out of Traverse City! They train under
Maha Guro Brian "Buzz" Smith, his website is www.kuntaw.org !

Brian R. VanCise

 

[Bill Bednarick]

Toasty,

I'm one of the Michigan Kuntaw guys Datu was talking about in that post, feel free to PM with any questions not answered by Brian's link to the kuntaw.org website.

 

[arnisador]

Looking at the pink book, I think that the comment about larger motions is dead-on.

 

[Datu Tim Hartman]

Remy was also quite the accomplished striker! I remember in 1989 Buffalo Winter Camp, Remy used my to demonstrate some techniques and I was the recipient of a flurry of kicks ending with a side kick in my armpit.

 

[Black Grass]

Remy was also quite the accomplished striker! I remember in 1989 Buffalo Winter Camp, Remy used my to demonstrate some techniques and I was the recipient of a flurry of kicks ending with a side kick in my armpit.

DP,

Is it fair to say that Prof. striking was basically karate ?

Vince

 

[Datu Tim Hartman]

DP,

Is it fair to say that Prof. striking was basically karate ?

Vince

I would say that his striking would be karate influneced. He had also shown me some Sikaran drills to help work on my balance. Having spent so much time around Remy as well as interacting with the FMA community, I would say there was alot of FMA in his striking.

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

I always felt that Remy's striking abilities were great!
I also feel that people get the impression of his striking
skills as Karate like based on the anyo's! However when
in motion I feel that his striking skills were very, very
FMA based!

Brian R. VanCise

 

[Dan Anderson]

DP,

Is it fair to say that Prof. striking was basically karate ?

Vince

Vince,

I'd answer a resounding "No." Having been a karate champion before I met Remy Presas, I'd say there might have been some influence but not a whole lot - not that came out of his movement anyway. His chief hand strikes were the back fist (cane strike #2), palm hook (cane strike #1), and straight palm (karate straight punch or a more horizontally delivered #12 strike). How the hand strikes came off of defensive actions were very cane like as well. His kicking, however, I couldn't say as I have had no exposure to Sikaran so I wouldn't be able to tell the difference.

Yours,
Dan Anderson

 

[Toasty]

Well, thanks for all the replies...

Darn it, of course you Kuntaw guys are all the way up in Traverse City... I am way down in the Detroit area.

Waiting on Tim, Rich or Paul... j/k


see ya
Rob

 

[Datu Kelly S. Worden]

Good comments about the old school material,,, I believe most of it is still evident but just applied differently as the years went by.

Professor used to teach the 12 empty hand targets with a pretty cool flow to them each one complementary to a attachment or lead to throws or locks. Slaps, closed fist, hammer fist, wrist strikes, palm strikes, knife hand strikes,,,

Yes the circles were somewhat larger, striking and locking, yet I believe that was also in his effort to show or make more apparent the connection to his sinawali boxing maneuvers. Also connecting the traditional throws of Judo, Aikido, and such,,,

Looking back, much of his disarming was pretty tight in regards to wrist locks, backward throws,,,

Remember he would teach a series of knife disarming and that was pretty tight,,, started with cross blocks but would dissolve the crossing into more of an attacking pass,,, His palis palis whether stick or empty handed was very fast, leading to lock control.

There was no question Professor possessed serious striking skills, the reverse sinawali empty hand sets all entered with simultaneous check and strike maneuvers, much like wing chun to a degree,,, palm, vertical fist, knife hand,,

I remember sharing a silat video with him and he swore the first five juru's were directly from his reverse sinawali striking sets and demonstrated them as such,,,
(You can hear him now, "Son of a *****, that is my re-berse sinawali set, oh my god, 'dey are calling it silat!?")

Within the anyo you could see his weight displacement pivot changes were very fluid from right to left punch, or even the elbow strikes had a great deal of fluid power transference by just the way he moved a person into the strikes. I did and still do like the anyo # 5 slap check-overhand punch leading to the uppercut,,, pretty valid boxing postures and maneuvers,,,

Referencing his kicking,,, he had some pretty tricky stuff, anyo step behind back kick was a great scissor takedown, years ago he could do it at the waist and later foot trap-knee hook kick scissor take down,,,(that is one of the drawings in the Pink Book) body roll and round kick you in the face very fluidly,,,

Anyo de cadena with the two elbow smash strikes leading to a side kick to the knee with a follow up front kick without setting the foot down demonstrated solid skill and diversity,,,

Most of his hook leg sweeps were intentional nerve destruction kicks that just took your balance and swept you down,,, more of a kick than a sweep,,, sometimes martial artists look at kicking in the point karate prospective,, Professor really did kicking as a way to distract or set you up for his hand strikes or throws, not as isolated kicking strategies,,, in that regard the low line Sikaran or Kuntao energy was being expressed,,,

Also Professor often demonstrated what he credited to "Sambo on the beach" when he was younger,,,

he had a very big bag of tricks all rolled up into Modern Arnis,,, the art within all arts...




Anyway just a few thoughts on the subject...

Datu Kelly

 

[Rich Parsons]

Well, thanks for all the replies...

Darn it, of course you Kuntaw guys are all the way up in Traverse City... I am way down in the Detroit area.

Waiting on Tim, Rich or Paul... j/k


see ya
Rob

My Apologies Rob,

I worked on some issues for work over the weekend, and also I am busy with it today. I hope to be done in the next day or so wit the latest crisis.

Note: ** Not a real crisis, just takes time to resolve, and work through, no matter what other people think.

Then I will disassemble both techniques.