Reason for all the high kicks and ariel techniques

[PhotonGuy]

A friend of mine who trained in Tae Kwon Do said that the reason for all the high kicks and jumping techniques in Tae Kwon Do was to knock people off horses. In ancient Korea they would often go up against enemies on horseback and the high kicks and jumping techniques were used to knock them off. Im not sure of the validity of that but that's what my friend who had a brown belt in Tae Kwon Do claimed.

He also said that the Koreans used their hands for lots of fine artwork and craftsmanship and as such did not want to damage their hands with training so that is why kicks were emphasized in Tae Kwon Do over hand techniques.

 

[Dirty Dog]

As with your "origins of the ninja uniform" nonsense, I can only wonder if this "explanation" actually seems reasonable to you.


Sent from an old fashioned 300 baud acoustic modem by whistling into the handset. Really.

 

[drop bear]

And not because high kicks make you look cool?

I like the concept of them for a few reasons. One being they are fight finishers that are hard to counter. And that is nothing to be discounted.

 

[drop bear]

As a side note. Savate is said to include kicks because on a fight on a boat you have to hand on to something.

Savate - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

pure conjecture on my part but capoeira is also kick heave and also traditionally used by sailors.

 

[PhotonGuy]

As with your "origins of the ninja uniform" nonsense, I can only wonder if this "explanation" actually seems reasonable to you.


Sent from an old fashioned 300 baud acoustic modem by whistling into the handset. Really.

So if you've got a good explanation lets hear it.

And try not to be like this guy.


He's not a role model.

 

[PhotonGuy]

As a side note. Savate is said to include kicks because on a fight on a boat you have to hand on to something.

Savate - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

pure conjecture on my part but capoeira is also kick heave and also traditionally used by sailors.

Also it was also supposedly illegal to strike with a closed fist at one time in France, that is another reason why Savate relies so much on kicking techniques.

 

[Touch Of Death]

Also it was also supposedly illegal to strike with a closed fist at one time in France, that is another reason why Savate relies so much on kicking techniques.

Maybe, but probably not. It is a sailors art. You get to swing off ropes an rails, and anything else with a pair of heels on. Heels help you climb ropes.

 

[MAist25]

The whole aerial kick to knock dudes off of horses is a myth. Or at least there is absolutely no proof that I have ever seen confirming this. The reason for all the fancy kicks in Taekwondo is due to Koreans attempts to connect what was originally just "Korean karate" to the native Korean art of Taekkyon in order to build national spirit. Taekkyon was primarily a kicking art, so pushing Taekwondo to more closely resemble it would kill any resemblance to Karate and give it its own identity, free of Japanese influence.

 

[Gnarlie]

A friend of mine who trained in Tae Kwon Do said that the reason for all the high kicks and jumping techniques in Tae Kwon Do was to knock people off horses. In ancient Korea they would often go up against enemies on horseback and the high kicks and jumping techniques were used to knock them off. Im not sure of the validity of that but that's what my friend who had a brown belt in Tae Kwon Do claimed.

He also said that the Koreans used their hands for lots of fine artwork and craftsmanship and as such did not want to damage their hands with training so that is why kicks were emphasized in Tae Kwon Do over hand techniques.

Is there a question, or are you making a statement?

Did your friend offer any evidence to back his claims?

I feel like Mythbusters should do a show on the history of TKD. Apart from the likely historical inaccuracy, the sheer physics rule this one out for me.

Knocking a rider in stirrups off a horse with a jumping kick would be next to impossible, unless they had no idea how to ride and were riding a pony. Have you experience of riding a horse in a saddle with stirrups? Have you ever watched jousting? Two men charge each other at full pelt, and even with the combined speed and mass of both the men and the horses, it is difficult to unseat a rider. The likelihood of the same being possible with a kick is miniscule, even if saddle and stirrups were not used. The potential for gripping the horse with the legs just rules it out.

Add in an armed rider and... just... no.

As regards valuing the hands, there are cultural factors relating to the hands and feet in Korea, for example it's considered impolite to sit with the sole of one's foot showing, but I would say these are unlikely to be the reason for favouring kicks.

More likely is that traditional Korean games existed that featured footwork and kicking, and combined with postwar nationalism and the need to re-establish a cultural identity after Japanese occupation, this led the Koreans to take martial arts in their own direction.

Taekwondo. The way of using the foot to stamp out the fist. Now there's a metaphor for you, and one that might explain some of the kicking focus.

 

[RTKDCMB]

A friend of mine who trained in Tae Kwon Do said that the reason for all the high kicks and jumping techniques in Tae Kwon Do was to knock people off horses. In ancient Korea they would often go up against enemies on horseback and the high kicks and jumping techniques were used to knock them off. Im not sure of the validity of that but that's what my friend who had a brown belt in Tae Kwon Do claimed..

We, the posters, here on MT make a habit of knocking people of their high horses.

 

[Earl Weiss]

Reading He Young Kims History book he relates how there was criticism in the early days of TKD being just like Karate. One of the ways to differentiate it was to emhasize kicking. He also relates that the strong lower body typical of many Korean people made this a natural choice.

 

[Tez3]

Ariel.......'we are such things as dreams are made on"

 

[Gnarlie]

Reading He Young Kims History book he relates how there was criticism in the early days of TKD being just like Karate. One of the ways to differentiate it was to emhasize kicking. He also relates that the strong lower body typical of many Korean people made this a natural choice.

It is pretty hilly

 

[dancingalone]

A friend of mine who trained in Tae Kwon Do said that the reason for all the high kicks and jumping techniques in Tae Kwon Do was to knock people off horses. In ancient Korea they would often go up against enemies on horseback and the high kicks and jumping techniques were used to knock them off.

This story never passed the smell factor for anyone willing to critically process what they hear from overzealous dojo mates. Not sure why these myths persist - I think the actual history behind the formation of arts like karate and taekwondo is way more interesting than the cruft that is unfortunately repeated as history and scholarship.

 

[TrueJim]

During one of the many Mongol invasions of Korea (~1237 C.E.) the Mongols destroyed many of the written records leading up to that time, so Korean history before that time is not well documented. That having been said, middle-ages Koreans did at least have some documents that described their martial arts. In 1608 they published the Muyejebo, "The Compendium of Several Martial Arts", the Muyesinbo "New Compendium or Martial Arts", and of course most taekwondo buffs know of the Muyedobotongji, "The Comprehensive Illustrated Manual of Martial Arts." As I understand it, each of these references builds-upon and adds-to its predecessor.

One would think that if kicking people off horses was a standard Korean technique during the middle-ages, it would have appeared in one of these references. To my knowledge, it doesn't. As I understand it, what these and other references do indicate is that knocking people off horses was indeed important to the Korean military, because of course that's how Mongols always invaded: on horseback. As I understand it, that's why the bow became the preeminent Korean weapon of choice during the middle-ages, over even the sword, the spear, and also presumably over all the other little batons and nunchuks and other hand-weapons common in other Asian countries: if you want to knock a Mongol off his horse, a bow is apparently your best choice, and small hand weapons aren't much use.

That having been said, at least the kicking-people-off-horses story a very colorful story that conjures some entertaining mental imagery.

I think the explanation given by other folks here is the right one though: ancient Korean martial arts apparently tended to favor kicking, so in order to better distinguish taekwondo from karate and other martial arts, and in order to make taekwondo feel distinctly Korean, the post-WWII masters tried to incorporate as much kicking as possible into their arts. I'm glad they did, because I do think it makes taekwondo interesting, unique, fun to perform, and fun to watch!

Mongol invasions of Korea - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
Muyejebo - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
Muyesinbo - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
Muyedobotongji - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia and Muye Dobo Tongji - Taekwondo Wiki

 

[drop bear]

During one of the many Mongol invasions of Korea (~1237 C.E.) the Mongols destroyed many of the written records leading up to that time, so Korean history before that time is not well documented. That having been said, middle-ages Koreans did at least have some documents that described their martial arts. In 1608 they published the Muyejebo, "The Compendium of Several Martial Arts", the Muyesinbo "New Compendium or Martial Arts", and of course most taekwondo buffs know of the Muyedobotongji, "The Comprehensive Illustrated Manual of Martial Arts." As I understand it, each of these references builds-upon and adds-to its predecessor.

One would think that if kicking people off horses was a standard Korean technique during the middle-ages, it would have appeared in one of these references. To my knowledge, it doesn't. As I understand it, what these and other references do indicate is that knocking people off horses was indeed important to the Korean military, because of course that's how Mongols always invaded: on horseback. As I understand it, that's why the bow became the preeminent Korean weapon of choice during the middle-ages, over even the sword, the spear, and also presumably over all the other little batons and nunchuks and other hand-weapons common in other Asian countries: if you want to knock a Mongol off his horse, a bow is apparently your best choice, and small hand weapons aren't much use.

That having been said, at least the kicking-people-off-horses story a very colorful story that conjures some entertaining mental imagery.

I think the explanation given by other folks here is the right one though: ancient Korean martial arts apparently tended to favor kicking, so in order to better distinguish taekwondo from karate and other martial arts, and in order to make taekwondo feel distinctly Korean, the post-WWII masters tried to incorporate as much kicking as possible into their arts. I'm glad they did, because I do think it makes taekwondo interesting, unique, fun to perform, and fun to watch!

Mongol invasions of Korea - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
Muyejebo - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
Muyesinbo - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
Muyedobotongji - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia and Muye Dobo Tongji - Taekwondo Wiki

The mongols did not traditionally have big horses. If I was going to jump kick a guy off a horse a mongol horse would be my choice.

 

[Dirty Dog]

OK, so since you insist... let's pick this apart one bit of foolishness at a time...

A friend of mine

You seem to have a lot of friends who spout off a lot of utter nonsense. And apparently you're foolish enough to give credence to their nonsense. Are they all really this stupid, or do they just know that you're gullible and take the opportunity to laugh at you for swallowing their crap?

who trained in Tae Kwon Do said that the reason for all the high kicks and jumping techniques in Tae Kwon Do was to knock people off horses. In ancient Korea they would often go up against enemies on horseback and the high kicks and jumping techniques were used to knock them off.

Right. Because apparently the Koreans didn't also have horses. And apparently it never occurred to them that there are far easier ways to get someone off a horse than to leap up in the air and kick them. Or that the very notion of an unarmed walker attacking an armed horseman is, well, ludicrous from the start.

Im not sure of the validity of that but that's what my friend who had a brown belt in Tae Kwon Do claimed.

A brown belt in an art that doesn't traditionally include a brown belt. And that doesn't set off any alarms on your credibility meter?

He also said that the Koreans used their hands for lots of fine artwork and craftsmanship and as such did not want to damage their hands with training so that is why kicks were emphasized in Tae Kwon Do over hand techniques.

Right. Because other Asian cultures didn't do any fine artwork or craftsmanship.

 

[PhotonGuy]

Is there a question, or are you making a statement?

Did your friend offer any evidence to back his claims?

I feel like Mythbusters should do a show on the history of TKD. Apart from the likely historical inaccuracy, the sheer physics rule this one out for me.

Knocking a rider in stirrups off a horse with a jumping kick would be next to impossible, unless they had no idea how to ride and were riding a pony. Have you experience of riding a horse in a saddle with stirrups? Have you ever watched jousting? Two men charge each other at full pelt, and even with the combined speed and mass of both the men and the horses, it is difficult to unseat a rider. The likelihood of the same being possible with a kick is miniscule, even if saddle and stirrups were not used. The potential for gripping the horse with the legs just rules it out.

Add in an armed rider and... just... no.

As regards valuing the hands, there are cultural factors relating to the hands and feet in Korea, for example it's considered impolite to sit with the sole of one's foot showing, but I would say these are unlikely to be the reason for favouring kicks.

More likely is that traditional Korean games existed that featured footwork and kicking, and combined with postwar nationalism and the need to re-establish a cultural identity after Japanese occupation, this led the Koreans to take martial arts in their own direction.

Taekwondo. The way of using the foot to stamp out the fist. Now there's a metaphor for you, and one that might explain some of the kicking focus.

It was a question. It was just something I had heard from a friend who did Tae Kwon Do. I was just trying to verify the validity of it.

 

[Dirty Dog]

It was a question. It was just something I had heard from a friend who did Tae Kwon Do. I was just trying to verify the validity of it.

Then maybe you should have asked a question. You do understand that questions traditionally end with a question mark? That's the "?" symbol at the lower right side corner of your key board - you'll have to also use the "SHIFT" key to access it.

Hope that helps.

 

[RTKDCMB]

A brown belt in an art that doesn't traditionally include a brown belt. And that doesn't set off any alarms on your credibility meter?

Rhee Taekwondo has a brown belt rank so his friend having one does not damage hie friend's credibility, his statement itself does.