Real Wing Chun Competitions

[Xinglu]

And, that's the biggest problem with the people who's concerned with style vs style. Just in China alone, there are 100s if not 1000's of different styles. How do one even begin to learn all the possible methods? How do we enter the minds of our opponents? How do you know all your potential enemies?

Learn to close your door, my friend.

I'm concerned that this can lead to a slippery slope eventually leading to, "it is pointless to train with people who practice other arts." Your gongfu can only increase, by continually testing and developing. This can only happen so much by training only with other practitioners of your own art. If I'm not mistaken, Yongchun means "eternal spring." Which implies that it is always growing. How is that growth going to happen without testing your strategies and tactics against those who are not familiar with them (and you are not familiar with theirs). That is a true measure as to how much you are "growing" and in what areas you still need to grow.

It is not about learning every possible defense, it is about experience. And the best way to experience your own art IS to pressure test it against something unfamiliar.

Furthermore, going with the door analogy: a shut and locked door will only keep an honest man honest. Security is an illusion, nothing more then a pacifier.

 

[chisauking]

xinglu: It is not about learning every possible defense, it is about experience. And the best way to experience your own art IS to pressure test it against something unfamiliar.

csk: So, are you familiar with every single fighting method in the world? Have you tested yourself against choi lay fut, heung keun, pak mei, tong long, cheung keun, mok gar, kee kar? If not, how do you become familiar? Again, can't you see the flaw in your statement, to 'pressure test' against something unfamiliar? How long do you expect to live?

Furthermore, going with the door analogy: a shut and locked door will only keep an honest man honest. Security is an illusion, nothing more then a pacifier.

csk: I don't think you understood my 'door' analogy. A 'door' is a way in which your opponent can attack you, and there are only so many 'doors' in which he can enter by. Learn to 'close' those doors, and you will minimise the possible permutations of attacks.

No matter what styles\methods your opponents choose to use, they can only enter through those finite amount of doors, because there are only so many ways people can attack you by.

You can think of it in another way. If you want to stop people from getting into London, it's better to stop them from entering the UK in the first place. If you try to stop them once they are in the country, it's next to impossible because there are zillions of roads leading to London, so it's impossible to close all the possible permutations of entry.

It's no different in combat. Prevent your opponent from penetrating your defence, and you have minimise their options. Once they have pass your defence, they will have considerably more options.

Depending on one's actual combat experiences, one will either see those permutations of attacks -- or doors -- or they won't.

Oh, well, this real wing chun competitions thread is done for me. You people carry on enjoying yourself. No point being a forum parrot.

 

[Xinglu]

So, are you familiar with every single fighting method in the world? Have you tested yourself against choi lay fut, heung keun, pak mei, tong long, cheung keun, mok gar, kee kar? If not, how do you become familiar? Again, can't you see the flaw in your statement, to 'pressure test' against something unfamiliar?

Do you want an answer to this? I'll go with the assumption that you do:

Of those you named:
CLF: yes
Pak Mei: yes

Plus many more that you didn't name. And as I meet new practitioners and encounter new styles, I will hopefully be able to train with them and learn and grow. Don't you do this? If not, why?

How long do you expect to live?

Once again, I'll assume you were being genuinely curious and not just an ***.

I never expected to make it past 25, now here I am every year a gift. I don't really care, I have already greatly surpassed my best hopes and expectations for longevity in life. If I live to bee 100 I will still be attempting to grow as a martial artist, training, and refining. Why should I stop because of age?

 

[Xinglu]

I don't think you understood my 'door' analogy. A 'door' is a way in which your opponent can attack you, and there are only so many 'doors' in which he can enter by. Learn to 'close' those doors, and you will minimise the possible permutations of attacks.

No matter what styles\methods your opponents choose to use, they can only enter through those finite amount of doors, because there are only so many ways people can attack you by.

You can think of it in another way. If you want to stop people from getting into London, it's better to stop them from entering the UK in the first place. If you try to stop them once they are in the country, it's next to impossible because there are zillions of roads leading to London, so it's impossible to close all the possible permutations of entry.

It's no different in combat. Prevent your opponent from penetrating your defence, and you have minimise their options. Once they have pass your defence, they will have considerably more options.

Depending on one's actual combat experiences, one will either see those permutations of attacks -- or doors -- or they won't.

Hmmm I do like the analogy, you're right, I didn't understand what you were saying.

I bolded a part that I feel is of importance, experience. Without it, you don't grow, and this is why pressure testing is important. I seems that we actually agree on this point after all.

 

[geezer]

I really don't see how this conversation devolved into another argument, especially when everybody was making pretty good sense for a while. Basically, what I was getting from all this was:

CSK: If you apply good WC principles, you should be able to handle whatever comes. (sounds good to me)

Xue and Xinglu: Yes, but it is also useful to train yourself against what the other guy is likely to do. (yup, that makes sense too)

My 2 Cents: CSK has a point, you can't train against everything, but you can pressure test yourself against the most common other approaches... to see if you can hold it together when you encounter the unexpected. If you keep your wits (and your WC) about you, then you should be able to handle it. And, if you test your WC and find it works, you will be so much more confident. If it doesn't work, then you know you what you need to train.

...Besides, testing yourself against different approaches is fun. Now what were you guys arguing about again?

 

[Xinglu]

I really don't see how this conversation devolved into another argument, especially when everybody was making pretty good sense for a while. Basically, what I was getting from all this was:

CSK: If you apply good WC principles, you should be able to handle whatever comes. (sounds good to me)

Xue and Xinglu: Yes, but it is also useful to train yourself against what the other guy is likely to do. (yup, that makes sense too)

My 2 Cents: CSK has a point, you can't train against everything, but you can pressure test yourself against the most common other approaches... to see if you can hold it together when you encounter the unexpected. If you keep your wits (and your WC) about you, then you should be able to handle it. And, if you test your WC and find it works, you will be so much more confident. If it doesn't work, then you know you what you need to train.

...Besides, testing yourself against different approaches is fun. Now what were you guys arguing about again?

You summed it up nicely me thinks.

Yes, it IS fun!

The only person talking about training against every thing is CSK, and I assume that it comes from a misunderstanding of what was being said. I take the opportunity to train with anyone who has the time for me. It is good for me. Every time I have heard it was good for them. We all have a lot of fun and learn a lot from each other, and often continue to do it when we have the extra time.

 

[chisauking]

I think it's important for me to state that I don't argue with people. Sometimes it may seem that way due to my style of writing, and how I try to convey my ideas, but if they were next to me as I type, they would see that I'm cool as a cucumber & generally smirking as I write.

Of all people, I probably understand the most that we don't all share the same thinking, simply because we all haven't travelled along the same path of life.

As I'd stated, I choose not to continue with this thread simply because I've put all my points across already, and I would only be repeating myself if I continued.

In any case, it's healthy that we challenge other people's ideas. After all, a forum would be extremely boring if we all agreed with each other, and slapped each other on the back after every response.

Until someone comes up with a format in which we all can spar in relative fairness, irrespective of style\method, I think I will just stick with chisau\gwohsau -- but that's another topic matter.

 

[Xue Sheng]

I think it's important for me to state that I don't argue with people. Sometimes it may seem that way due to my style of writing, and how I try to convey my ideas, but if they were next to me as I type, they would see that I'm cool as a cucumber & generally smirking as I write.

Of all people, I probably understand the most that we don't all share the same thinking, simply because we all haven't travelled along the same path of life.

As I'd stated, I choose not to continue with this thread simply because I've put all my points across already, and I would only be repeating myself if I continued.

In any case, it's healthy that we challenge other people's ideas. After all, a forum would be extremely boring if we all agreed with each other, and slapped each other on the back after every response.

Until someone comes up with a format in which we all can spar in relative fairness, irrespective of style\method, I think I will just stick with chisau\gwohsau -- but that's another topic matter.

It took me a few posts... and getting past the "sez" stuff and being called sue but I got it

And it truly was much appreciated; I do believe we are in agreement and thank you :asian:

 

[Xinglu]

I think it's important for me to state that I don't argue with people. Sometimes it may seem that way due to my style of writing, and how I try to convey my ideas, but if they were next to me as I type, they would see that I'm cool as a cucumber & generally smirking as I write.

Of all people, I probably understand the most that we don't all share the same thinking, simply because we all haven't travelled along the same path of life.

As I'd stated, I choose not to continue with this thread simply because I've put all my points across already, and I would only be repeating myself if I continued.

In any case, it's healthy that we challenge other people's ideas. After all, a forum would be extremely boring if we all agreed with each other, and slapped each other on the back after every response.

I certainly hope you argue!

Argument:
Noun: 1. a fact or assertion offered as evidence that something is true; "it was a strong argument that his hypothesis was true"
2. a discussion in which reasons are advanced for and against some proposition or proposal; "the argument over foreign aid goes on and on"

Argumentation:
a course of reasoning aimed at demonstrating a truth or falsehood; the methodical process of logical reasoning; "I can't follow your line of reasoning"

too often people replace the words fighting and bickering with arguing. Which has led to the unfortunate vilifying of the term "argument".

Until someone comes up with a format in which we all can spar in relative fairness, irrespective of style\method, I think I will just stick with chisau\gwohsau -- but that's another topic matter.

I think this is quite to topic - Isn't this (the bolded part) what the MMA format is? Now take that format and hold a WC competition, then the last day, have it be either open to all forms of CMA (which I think would be the most intriguing show case), or open to all forms of MA. That way, the showcase is WC. Those who only want to compete against other WC practitioners can do so. And those who want to test it against other CMA, can.

 

[KamonGuy2]

Hahaha we are arguing about arguing!!! Arguing is productive because it is passionate debate. Everyone has ideas to offer and arguments allow people to see all the points raised more clearly

Its human nature to argue and as long as it isnt done in an aggressive way its fine

I think a lot of people really want to see wing chun represented in competition formate but the point is that it could never happen. Why? Simply because those that stick to 'pure' wing chun will find using a streetfighting art in a purely competitive format very difficult. Those that 'adapt' the wing chun to work in a more MMA style environment would be accused of not using wing chun!!

I had this problem when I did my competitions - a lot of people couldnt identify the wing chun until they had another look at the videos

My advice to you guys is to try your art in various different formats - play with it and figure out ways of changing your art to adapt to the situation. I love playing with ideas such as 'how would I deal with using wing chun on a bus' or if I was dragged into a river etc. Weird thoughts but it gives you something to play with. I know that some people obsess too much by certain things (ie they want definitive answers on how to use wing chun against a gun etc, when there arent any complete answers)

 

[KHayden]

I believe the only real way to test Wing Chun is bareknuckle with as few rules as possible. The moment you start adding rules for safety it becomes sport and not reality. People just have to be accept the possibility of getting hurt. If not anything that is done will be artificial.

 

[bully]

I believe the only real way to test Wing Chun is bareknuckle with as few rules as possible. The moment you start adding rules for safety it becomes sport and not reality. People just have to be accept the possibility of getting hurt. If not anything that is done will be artificial.

But who is going to do this?

Even the guys on Wingchunfightclub don't seem to "fight" as often as they want to. That site was started purely to talk about and mainly practice realistic WC fighting.

In this day and age people have too much to lose, jobs, family, house etc. If you and I have a bareknuckle fight and you chain punched me in the face, a cracked cheekbone, black eyes and bust lips will not go down too well at home/life in general.

There is also the threat of getting sued with such a litigious society at present. Maybe cops getting involved too.

I do agree with you though, it is the only way, but not practical now. Which is why the loss of the older WC guys who did fight actually fight in this way is such a huge loss.

 

[KHayden]

I suppose you would just need people that are perfectly willing to take that risk. When UFC started it was all bareknuckle with few rules and no one was seriously hurt. Bareknuckle boxing still goes on in the UK. I think it would be good for all arts to go back to a more realistic training style. Sports oriented mentality is ruining martial arts.

 

[dungeonworks]

But who is going to do this?

Even the guys on Wingchunfightclub don't seem to "fight" as often as they want to. That site was started purely to talk about and mainly practice realistic WC fighting.

In this day and age people have too much to lose, jobs, family, house etc. If you and I have a bareknuckle fight and you chain punched me in the face, a cracked cheekbone, black eyes and bust lips will not go down too well at home/life in general.

There is also the threat of getting sued with such a litigious society at present. Maybe cops getting involved too.

I do agree with you though, it is the only way, but not practical now. Which is why the loss of the older WC guys who did fight actually fight in this way is such a huge loss.

I dunno about all the old guys, but even Wong Shun Leung has been quoted as saying his roof top fights had some form of rules or value system of respect for not using certain attacks or targets. What idiot would want to compete without some form of civility unless it was an even more idiotic death match or some assnine fantasy such as that?

No rules fighting still goes on in Brazil without gloves. They have VERY MINIMAL rules such as no biting or eye gouging. Everything else goes. Thats really dang close to what many in this thread are saying they would want in a competition, yet there are no video/film of these Wing Chun fighters in action. Why??? You would think there would be SOMETHING SOMEWHERE for examination, aside the "arguable" Ving Tsun in the first couple UFC's when it was bareknuckle. Jason Delucia used VT in several MMA competitions around the world and made a decent respectable career out of his skills, but eventually evolved with other styles including Aikido and shootwrestling I believe. Alan Orr and his guys do good in MMA and have a 7 DVD series on how they adapted their Wing Chun into the cage with respectable results.

....and if the Vale Tudo is still not Chunny enough for you, why has anyone here not yet been into the "Felony Fights" yet? They have ALL the rules some of you think you need for Wing Chun to be effective in competition.....NO RULES AT ALL! The fights are setup from a dueling perspective. In other words, you square off and go at it until one is knocked decisively unconscious or gives up. You can wear gloves only if you want to.

Felony Fights Videos Online

Felony Fights Website

They even offer 2 on 2 or multiple attackers!

:flame:is suit on!

 

[Vajramusti]

Fights are fights- the rest are all simulations and they can come in different flavors.

Films are just films- but in Kurosawa's famous samurai film with the seven samurai- there was the scene where the best swordsman was challenged
by someone. They decided to "spar" -the challenger cliaimed victory- but the samurai said that the challenger would have been killed in a real fight.

The challenger persisted and insited on a real fight.They fought with real swords--one well aimed,timed and controlled slash and the challenger was cut in half and died.

Just a film-but still interesting and instructive.

 

[KamonGuy2]

I have recently seen a lot of clips on the net of very good cage fighters saying they would hate to have a streetfight becuase it is different to what they do. Even Dana White had an interview (Special Features on the DVD 'Red Belt') where he stated that cage fighting is completely different to street fighting and is considered a sport

Dont get me wrong, cagefighters and MMA are extremely dangerous guys, but they train with rules and set conditions. They would probably handle themselves in most situations in the street.

The difference with wing chun is that we get straight in and do not allow the opponent any room to disengage, back away or use weapons. In MMA events, the fighters try to wear their opponent down which is too slow (three rounds of five minutes each etc), and most of the time the situation is a draw!

You need arts that are effective at street level (such as wing chun). Yet to fight in a cage, MMA is king

 

[dungeonworks]

I have recently seen a lot of clips on the net of very good cage fighters saying they would hate to have a streetfight becuase it is different to what they do. Even Dana White had an interview (Special Features on the DVD 'Red Belt') where he stated that cage fighting is completely different to street fighting and is considered a sport

Dont get me wrong, cagefighters and MMA are extremely dangerous guys, but they train with rules and set conditions. They would probably handle themselves in most situations in the street.

The difference with wing chun is that we get straight in and do not allow the opponent any room to disengage, back away or use weapons. In MMA events, the fighters try to wear their opponent down which is too slow (three rounds of five minutes each etc), and most of the time the situation is a draw!

You need arts that are effective at street level (such as wing chun). Yet to fight in a cage, MMA is king

I see and agree with what you are saying about MMA Kamon, and personally know many MMA guys that kick butt in the cage and never took or recieved a strike outside it. I also know many MMA guys that ARE street fighters and use the cage as an outlet for over aggression that has or will land them in the clink if they did not have it. I feel for those naive enough to believe all or even most MMA figthers are just atheletes. Heck, you can find MMA represented in the Felony Fights and even Karate and Tae Kwon Do I think. I haven't seen Wing Chun in there yet.

Wing Chun is designed to end fights as fast as they start, is it not? At least that is what is claimed a lot around here. I still have not seen any fight videos of anyone claiming Wing Chun Ving Tsun or anyother spelling of the name of the art. When someone does claim it is Wing Chun et al, it is usually shot down as not being WC at all. Then, when it is related to MMA, if the WC guy loses, all hell breaks loose with stupid comments from people that I would strongly assume have never been punched let alone been in a real fight. These WC people will trash MMA and come up with EVERY EXCUSE IN THE BOOK as to why WC won't work in competition of ANY TYPE but is TOTALLY LETHAL in the streets! Are the laws of physics different in "The Streets" compared with the rest of the world??? There are all kinds of accessible bareknuckle, minimal rules, and no rules at all competitions in Brazil, USA, and I am sure the UK has them too as Bareknuckle boxing is a hefty part of their Heritage from what I understand. I remember reading not long ago that it is making quite the resurgence in Ireland.

Anyways, the point of my post is this: The competitions are out there that fit the requests of the postings above, with and without gloves (Bareknuckle boxing, boxing, K-1, Muay Thai, Kyokushin/Ashihara tourneys...ect), stand up only no grappling (SanShou, ShuiCao, Bareknuckle boxing), stand up only and limited stand up grappling , NO RULES OR LIMITATIONS AT ALL (Felony Fights) and the like. Chunner's want their art to be respected, otherwise this thread and the WC vs MMA threads would not happen and feelings would not be hurt over the lack of respect. I see LOADS of WC in the movies, instructionals, pre arranged scenarios...ect, but not at all in surveilance footage of assaults, martial competition, nor have I seen it in a bar or on "The Streets". Everyone seems to talk of the "The Streets" and then tries to rationalize statements with general estimations of what Fighter A would or would not do if Fighter B did..... Where's the meat and potatoes video or filmed proof that WC is what everyone says in "The Streets". The world is under video surveillance. Somewhere there has to be footage. I am not saying Wing Chun of any flavor is bad or useless as I would not be interested in it if I was not getting use of it and seeing it in my own sparring. What I am saying is that many (most???) Chunner's on here have a seriously SKEWED and FANTASY vision of "The Streets" and Martial Sport.

Also, I am not pushing the Felony Fights, just that it is easy for all to see and they have no rules and I am using them as an example of what is out there.

 

[KamonGuy2]

I see and agree with what you are saying about MMA Kamon, and personally know many MMA guys that kick butt in the cage and never took or recieved a strike outside it. I also know many MMA guys that ARE street fighters and use the cage as an outlet for over aggression that has or will land them in the clink if they did not have it. I feel for those naive enough to believe all or even most MMA figthers are just atheletes. Heck, you can find MMA represented in the Felony Fights and even Karate and Tae Kwon Do I think. I haven't seen Wing Chun in there yet.

Wing Chun is designed to end fights as fast as they start, is it not? At least that is what is claimed a lot around here. I still have not seen any fight videos of anyone claiming Wing Chun Ving Tsun or anyother spelling of the name of the art. When someone does claim it is Wing Chun et al, it is usually shot down as not being WC at all. Then, when it is related to MMA, if the WC guy loses, all hell breaks loose with stupid comments from people that I would strongly assume have never been punched let alone been in a real fight. These WC people will trash MMA and come up with EVERY EXCUSE IN THE BOOK as to why WC won't work in competition of ANY TYPE but is TOTALLY LETHAL in the streets! Are the laws of physics different in "The Streets" compared with the rest of the world??? There are all kinds of accessible bareknuckle, minimal rules, and no rules at all competitions in Brazil, USA, and I am sure the UK has them too as Bareknuckle boxing is a hefty part of their Heritage from what I understand. I remember reading not long ago that it is making quite the resurgence in Ireland.

Anyways, the point of my post is this: The competitions are out there that fit the requests of the postings above, with and without gloves (Bareknuckle boxing, boxing, K-1, Muay Thai, Kyokushin/Ashihara tourneys...ect), stand up only no grappling (SanShou, ShuiCao, Bareknuckle boxing), stand up only and limited stand up grappling , NO RULES OR LIMITATIONS AT ALL (Felony Fights) and the like. Chunner's want their art to be respected, otherwise this thread and the WC vs MMA threads would not happen and feelings would not be hurt over the lack of respect. I see LOADS of WC in the movies, instructionals, pre arranged scenarios...ect, but not at all in surveilance footage of assaults, martial competition, nor have I seen it in a bar or on "The Streets". Everyone seems to talk of the "The Streets" and then tries to rationalize statements with general estimations of what Fighter A would or would not do if Fighter B did..... Where's the meat and potatoes video or filmed proof that WC is what everyone says in "The Streets". The world is under video surveillance. Somewhere there has to be footage. I am not saying Wing Chun of any flavor is bad or useless as I would not be interested in it if I was not getting use of it and seeing it in my own sparring. What I am saying is that many (most???) Chunner's on here have a seriously SKEWED and FANTASY vision of "The Streets" and Martial Sport.

Also, I am not pushing the Felony Fights, just that it is easy for all to see and they have no rules and I am using them as an example of what is out there.

As I have mentioned before, I have used my wing chun in karate knockdowns, caged competitions and bare knuckle tournaments. I'll admit at times there were elements of other arts that I used, but most of it was traditional wing chun. The trouble is that a lot of wing chun moves are illegal in most 'respected' competitions. Not because wing chun is lethal - wing chun is as lethal as any other art. The point of wing chun is that it closes distance and then hacks away at the opponent with nasty moves

You are completely right that most MMA guys are not just athletes and I hope you didnt take my original point to mean that. What I was saying was that the format of the UFC is sport based. The fighters themselves are very varied. One fighter I love to watch - Neil Groves comes from a karate background and uses it to devastating effect in the cage. However, I guarantee that he would do more damage outside the cage than inside!

I do get tired of people on certain sites whinging that there are no fight vids of wing chun. If someone wants to follow me around with a camera and attempt to film me the next time i get set upon then be my guest. I got attacked by three guys two months ago and if it wasnt for my wing chun, I wouldnt be alive. Its as simple as that

Im a great advocate of learnng other styles and using what works, but I am specifically referring to the MMA idiots who insist that the cage is a proving ground. I found the cage easy compared to many confrontations Ive had in public and would rather fight in there than in the streets.
Watching videos of boxers does not prove anything to me. I read a nice interview in Zoo magazine this week with the World Heavyweight champ who actually said that he wouldnt like to take on some of the Millwall fans because it isnt the same environment as the outside world

As for other types of competitions, there are loads. Chi sao competitions, wing chun fight tournaments, etc. There are plenty of examples on the net of wing chun in action, but I think most people ignore them and continue to bash wing chun. LEAVE BRITNEY ALONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[dungeonworks]

As I have mentioned before, I have used my wing chun in karate knockdowns, caged competitions and bare knuckle tournaments. I'll admit at times there were elements of other arts that I used, but most of it was traditional wing chun. The trouble is that a lot of wing chun moves are illegal in most 'respected' competitions. Not because wing chun is lethal - wing chun is as lethal as any other art. The point of wing chun is that it closes distance and then hacks away at the opponent with nasty moves

You are completely right that most MMA guys are not just athletes and I hope you didnt take my original point to mean that. What I was saying was that the format of the UFC is sport based. The fighters themselves are very varied. One fighter I love to watch - Neil Groves comes from a karate background and uses it to devastating effect in the cage. However, I guarantee that he would do more damage outside the cage than inside!

I do get tired of people on certain sites whinging that there are no fight vids of wing chun. If someone wants to follow me around with a camera and attempt to film me the next time i get set upon then be my guest. I got attacked by three guys two months ago and if it wasnt for my wing chun, I wouldnt be alive. Its as simple as that

Im a great advocate of learnng other styles and using what works, but I am specifically referring to the MMA idiots who insist that the cage is a proving ground. I found the cage easy compared to many confrontations Ive had in public and would rather fight in there than in the streets.
Watching videos of boxers does not prove anything to me. I read a nice interview in Zoo magazine this week with the World Heavyweight champ who actually said that he wouldnt like to take on some of the Millwall fans because it isnt the same environment as the outside world

As for other types of competitions, there are loads. Chi sao competitions, wing chun fight tournaments, etc. There are plenty of examples on the net of wing chun in action, but I think most people ignore them and continue to bash wing chun. LEAVE BRITNEY ALONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!

So you, compete/competed in various venues of martial sport, and fought in the street....and you cross train/trained in other styles. How many chunners here lift their nose at the thought of cross training? How many Chunners here lift their noses and critique everything without tasting it themselves or bash the videos of others work. How many Chunner's here have EVERY EXCUSE IN THE BOOK as to why Chunner's do not compete using the almighty "It's too deadly for sport!" and "It was made for the Streets!" excuses.

....and then the aforementioned Chunner's wonder why Wing Chun is not as respected like a Muay Thai or MMA among the general Martial Arts population and get all persnickety when somebody asks for some form of validity or some video of it in action. The reason is, it is not as SEEN and as with most self defense styles, looks nowheres near as fluid and pretty as it is in ChiSau or forms training. Same with Karate, Judo, TKD, Jiujitsu of any flavor....ect. You have been in fights Kamon Guy, you know what I am saying. The moves and muscle memory are there on a smaller level, but things still go frantic when the adrenaline starts pumping or you are attacked while off guard from behind or the side or other awkward angle...ect. In otherwords, I bet Chuck Norris don't fight like, nor as pretty as Cordell Walker does on Walker Texas Ranger! LOL

For the record, I am not dogging the art on Wing Chun, Wing Tsun, Ving Tsun (or anyother spelling of the style) in any way...just the blinder wearing types that cannot see past what their sifu says....and that goes for ANY art. I have conversed with a lot of Hapkido people of the same closed minded blinder wearing tunnel vision ilk as well.

 

[dungeonworks]

Fights are fights- the rest are all simulations and they can come in different flavors.

Films are just films- but in Kurosawa's famous samurai film with the seven samurai- there was the scene where the best swordsman was challenged
by someone. They decided to "spar" -the challenger cliaimed victory- but the samurai said that the challenger would have been killed in a real fight.

The challenger persisted and insited on a real fight.They fought with real swords--one well aimed,timed and controlled slash and the challenger was cut in half and died.

Just a film-but still interesting and instructive.

Interesting? Yes, I agree. Instructive??? NOT AT ALL!!!! It was just a movie with a good story.

Good movie though...been YEARS since I have seen it.