Re: Financial Sector Bailout - Where'd the bailout money go? Shhhh, it's a secret

[MA-Caver]

I don't know how many of you are old enough to remember the old Fess Parker Davy Crockett movies. I'm 30 and my dad made me watch those when I was kid, and grew up loving those old Walt Disney movies. I recently wrote a letter to my congressman for all the good it did me on this subject. But I left him with this quote from the movie, because I think that it is a profound one.

Davy Crockett, rides on horseback all the way across the country back into Washington, because congress at that time was going to try and pass a bill that just flat out wasn't right. When he arrived he walks on to the floor and tells the members there these simple words. "If we were the kinds of people, that the people that voted us into office thought we were, a bill like this would have never been made, much less would it have reached our DESKS!" Alas I tell my dad all the time there are no more Davy Crockett's in our country anymore.

My idea was to give every American that makes under 250,000 dollars a one time grant of 250,000 dollars. Figuring this would stimulate the economy, people would pay off there bills, there houses, buy new houses, new cars etc...This in turn would create new jobs. His response was it would cost too much money. However, I told him that the government could give every American 50,000 dollars and it would only cost about 200 billion dollars. Now you multiply that by three, as 50, thousand times three is because 50,000 times 3 is 150,000 dollars it's still only 600 billion dollars which is still 100,000 billion dollars shorter than there bailout program, so another 50,000 for every american would be right about 700 to 800 billion dollars, but you kill all of the birds with one stone, as opposed to missing the one that you really wanted. He said that it was still a giveaway, and that the government would not get anything for it in return. THere way the government can oversee the use and spenditures of the money.

YEAH RIGHT! What a crock! THese guys are supposed to be our representatives, yet they never do what the american people ask them too. The majority of Americans don't want the auto makers bailed out, yet, they choose to go against our wishes. Where is the representation? No taxation without representation? HA! I told them that politicians needed to get it through there thick skulls that they don't run the country the citizens do. How do you think they would react if every American said, "Screw it. YOu know so damned much you run it. Make it work with out workers. Make the country run, go ahead. We ain't going to work until you do what your supposed to." Yeah the country would come to a halt. And right now let me tell ya.

Anyways, it's all garbage, they'll never change, we'll never get change, it's all the same and every politician is the same. Just a bunch of money grubbing *******s if you ask me.

GI, that the old Davy Crockett American Values and integrity are gone is true. But I don't think it'll be forever. There are still a few good eggs left in the basket (mind you it's a pretty big friggin basket) up there in Washington. Problem is the rest of the eggs are already totally rotten or at least getting there, so it's hard for the good ones to make a difference that'll actually mean something.
Another good film to watch is Frank Capra's "Mr. Smith Goes To Washington" with Jimmy Stewart. You'll get an idea of how one good egg can be realistically manipulated to start to have "that smell" about them. The film unrealistically shows how one good egg can triumph but the idea is there.
Yes, WE the people should be running this country, WE should be telling those eggs up in Washington exactly how things should be done according to the way we want them to be done. Problem is WE the people keep the eggs on the shelves and ... well, you know what happens when you leave an egg out for too long.
One of the problems of just handing out a big wad of cash to those who do not earn as much as the 10% that do ($250K-ers) is that well, a lot would pay off bills and a lot would be able to keep their homes but a lot more would simply blow it. Blow it right down to the last dollar and like Oliver come back with the bowl in both hands look up with big brown sheeple's eyes and say "Please sir, I want some more." So knowing that, would you want to just hand out free cash and not find the economy stimulated one bit? Remember they just did that (with a just a handful) ... guess what... the economy isn't any better.
The irony of it all... if everyone took their big bail out money as it were (your proposed $50K) ... to pay their bills mortgages and car loans ... guess who/where the money goes to?? Ta-da! To Da Banks! Basically that is what the guys in Washington were doing... via proxy. It'd be awfully tempting for the average Joe to keep a few thousand of the $50K and promise themselves to make up for it later... Rightfully so Washington didn't trust the average Joe on the whole to honestly spend the money as it was originally intended for. Only a pitiful few would actually use the money to pay off their mortages or car loans or whatever really important debt needed to be taken care of.
It's the reason why multi millionaires don't just walk down the street and hand out stacks of $1,000 to people right and left on their way to the office. Imagine you, taking $100.00 in ten dollar bills and giving one to every homeless person you meet on the street... what do you think they would do with it? Get some food? Maybe. Probably a .99 double stacker from Wendy's and a couple of bottles of MD 20/20 and a pack of smokes too. Same principal.
Also imagine what $50K in the hands of each member of L.A. biggest street gangs would do? They're in line too aren't they? They're American citizens too aren't they? Low-life drug dealing, drive-by shooting scumbags sure but they're registered American citizens. You want to put a crap load of money in their hands as well? Me either.
So just give the money to those who would really use it in a responsible way? Fine, get everyone in line and lets start the weeding process. How long do you think that'll take?
The economic stimulus package didn't work. A lot of people didn't get what they were told they were going to get (I only got $300 because I didn't earn enough and wasn't married) and quite a few didn't get their checks at all. Hmm, what happened to THAT money I wonder??
I understand and appreciate your cynicism, I feel that way myself along with 50 to 75 million other Americans who aren't as blind as Washington would like us to be (baaaa). But it's the other 150 million who are the sheeple of this country that don't/won't stand by those who want real change. Add their votes to the ones that want to get those rotten eggs out of the captiol building and change will happen... or will it? Is there a guarantee that the next guy put in there won't be slowly corrupted by big businesses' gifts of cars, homes, cash, etc. ? Of course there's no guarantee.
A person I talked to said that one idea they had was that all government officials be paid a base salary that cannot be raised upon (except for cost of living) and limited to their 4 years ONCE in a life time tenure.
Problem with that is not everyone wants or is really cut out to be a politician. The next person might intentionally or unintentionally undo the good work that the last person has done.

Either way these bankers are no better than lawyers in their quest for the almighty dollar. There's so much of it and the power that comes with it is incredible.

What to do? What to do?

 

[Rich Parsons]

Must be nice to be that special....

Can the thread title be changed to include Financial Sector Bailout?

 

[Bob Hubbard]

So, they went from 10 pages to 100 pages, but that wasn't enough, they took some holiday time came back, wrote a new "better" plan with "a lot more safeguards", that bloated it out to over 300 pages, and had to include special notes for arrow makers, and rum distillers, yet they forgot to see if anyone had included the 'oversight" notes.

They sold us out. I said it before, and I got laughed at. They sold us out, and sold out their country, and what did they get? Reelected, promotions, and more of the same. Everyone who voted for someone who voted FOR this mess....congratulations.

Of course, Paulson's not concerned. He's printing as fast as he can go, and passing it out how he sees fit, regardless of what Congress might say, because he doesn't answer to them. Seems neither do the guys getting all that free money.

 

[GBlues]

GI, that the old Davy Crockett American Values and integrity are gone is true. But I don't think it'll be forever. There are still a few good eggs left in the basket (mind you it's a pretty big friggin basket) up there in Washington. Problem is the rest of the eggs are already totally rotten or at least getting there, so it's hard for the good ones to make a difference that'll actually mean something.
Another good film to watch is Frank Capra's "Mr. Smith Goes To Washington" with Jimmy Stewart. You'll get an idea of how one good egg can be realistically manipulated to start to have "that smell" about them. The film unrealistically shows how one good egg can triumph but the idea is there.
Yes, WE the people should be running this country, WE should be telling those eggs up in Washington exactly how things should be done according to the way we want them to be done. Problem is WE the people keep the eggs on the shelves and ... well, you know what happens when you leave an egg out for too long.
One of the problems of just handing out a big wad of cash to those who do not earn as much as the 10% that do ($250K-ers) is that well, a lot would pay off bills and a lot would be able to keep their homes but a lot more would simply blow it. Blow it right down to the last dollar and like Oliver come back with the bowl in both hands look up with big brown sheeple's eyes and say "Please sir, I want some more." So knowing that, would you want to just hand out free cash and not find the economy stimulated one bit? Remember they just did that (with a just a handful) ... guess what... the economy isn't any better.
The irony of it all... if everyone took their big bail out money as it were (your proposed $50K) ... to pay their bills mortgages and car loans ... guess who/where the money goes to?? Ta-da! To Da Banks! Basically that is what the guys in Washington were doing... via proxy. It'd be awfully tempting for the average Joe to keep a few thousand of the $50K and promise themselves to make up for it later... Rightfully so Washington didn't trust the average Joe on the whole to honestly spend the money as it was originally intended for. Only a pitiful few would actually use the money to pay off their mortages or car loans or whatever really important debt needed to be taken care of.
It's the reason why multi millionaires don't just walk down the street and hand out stacks of $1,000 to people right and left on their way to the office. Imagine you, taking $100.00 in ten dollar bills and giving one to every homeless person you meet on the street... what do you think they would do with it? Get some food? Maybe. Probably a .99 double stacker from Wendy's and a couple of bottles of MD 20/20 and a pack of smokes too. Same principal.
Also imagine what $50K in the hands of each member of L.A. biggest street gangs would do? They're in line too aren't they? They're American citizens too aren't they? Low-life drug dealing, drive-by shooting scumbags sure but they're registered American citizens. You want to put a crap load of money in their hands as well? Me either.
So just give the money to those who would really use it in a responsible way? Fine, get everyone in line and lets start the weeding process. How long do you think that'll take?
The economic stimulus package didn't work. A lot of people didn't get what they were told they were going to get (I only got $300 because I didn't earn enough and wasn't married) and quite a few didn't get their checks at all. Hmm, what happened to THAT money I wonder??
I understand and appreciate your cynicism, I feel that way myself along with 50 to 75 million other Americans who aren't as blind as Washington would like us to be (baaaa). But it's the other 150 million who are the sheeple of this country that don't/won't stand by those who want real change. Add their votes to the ones that want to get those rotten eggs out of the captiol building and change will happen... or will it? Is there a guarantee that the next guy put in there won't be slowly corrupted by big businesses' gifts of cars, homes, cash, etc. ? Of course there's no guarantee.
A person I talked to said that one idea they had was that all government officials be paid a base salary that cannot be raised upon (except for cost of living) and limited to their 4 years ONCE in a life time tenure.
Problem with that is not everyone wants or is really cut out to be a politician. The next person might intentionally or unintentionally undo the good work that the last person has done.

Either way these bankers are no better than lawyers in their quest for the almighty dollar. There's so much of it and the power that comes with it is incredible.

What to do? What to do?

Well, MA I see your points. However, another person did bring out a feesible solution on another post I believe it was on AOL. That was you get your bills in order you go down to the local DES, ( oh and theres was for a 100k not 250 but the principal is the same), and they take that money that you would have got in cash, and simply start paying off your bills. Now once that's done, any money that is left over is yours to spend anyway you see fit, so long as you spend it on AMerican made goods. This is key to my idea, because it does no good to send the money to other countries we'd only be stimulating there economy. Now my idea is more of a issued debit card. This way you won't have any person to person transactions, no drug buys etc...( hopefully). Of course if you do it under a grant also, then the people would have to do what they say they are going to do with it, or they have to pay it back. It's that simple. I mean there are lots of ways to hash this out, and come up with a viable way to make this work.

Like I say, it takes care of everybody. The banks, the auto makers, the people that are in debt. They'd get some debt relief if not all. It would help people that are out of work, by creating jobs for them to go too, allow them to keep there houses, etc... I just see so many good things that could come from this, that I don't know why the geniuses in Washington haven't thought of it, and found a way to make it work is just ludicrous. This would be almost like a reset for the economy to kick it in the *** long enough for it to right itself.

I know that there will be people that would abuse such a gift, and do the wrong thing with it. But the same is true with Bush's stimulus package. Which by the way, what are you going to do with 300- 600 bucks? Pay the rent! OR some other bill that needs paid. Get a tune up on the car, I mean it really was joke, and wasn't much of a stimulus by any means. Guaranteed there were alot of people that were drug addicts that spent it on drugs, booze, gangbangers that bought that pistol or rifle they've been wanting. It's all relative.

One other problem I see with this idea is the prices. If everybody got a check for such a large amount, man prices would shoot through the roof!!! So on the bad side, there would have to be a temporary price freeze. Does no good, if your prices are so high, people still can't go and buy anything new, like a house, or car, because then you aren't creating anything, just keeping it the same you know. Figure you give it a year, maybe two, and then everybody is back to there, ( and I hate to say this), rightful place in the higherarchy, and things are reset back to normal. Plus you have a whole new generation that will still be borrowing from the banks, and buying things as they go to work, etc.... See what I'm trying to say, it would just be a freaking blessing to those that really need it, and would do the right thing with it. Plus it's not so much that you can just quit your job. But once your debt free, man it'd be like, "Yeah, me and the lady are going out friday night, all the bills are paid, and I can afford to splurge just a little on a really nice dinner." Bang, and even the entertainment, and restraunt industries benefit. See how this is just snow balling. Like a Trickle UP ECONOMICS

HEHE!!!