Questions on Stephen Hayes

[Bester]

1- How old is he?

2- What arts did he study?
2A - How long did he study each art?
2B - What ranks did he reach in those arts?
2C - Who did he study under or with?

3- How old was he when he founded his To Shin Do?

4- What is the difference between [font=Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Sans-serif,sans-serif]To Shin Do and Ninjitsu?[/font]

 

[gmunoz]

There have been too numorous threads about An-Shu Stephen K. Hayes on MT lately to have to start another. An easy search function can help answer your concerns.

 

[Bester]

I did not find the information I asked for elsewhere, which is why I asked. At least your reply was more friendly than this forums assigned moderator when I asked about Tew.

I also went to the website, but did not find my answers there.

 

[gmunoz]

Bester, I would recommend you take great care on how your respond to and about mods. MT administrators are pretty strict about that.

 

[Bester]

I could take that as a threat, but I'll put it as "Friendly Advice". My point was, your reply which said the same as his, was despite any differences between us, more politely worded.

Now, with that stated, I do have to ask.
Were my questions somehow invalid? Unjust? Wrong?

The information I asked about (despite my failing to correct 1 misspelling) is valid background information about an individual, who is a leader in the arts. Yes, I can find some of it in books, other websites, or after reading a few hundred posts here. I don't wish to wade through the misinformation and misinterpretations. Just the facts.

Facts that I was not able to easily draw from numerous sources.

 

[Satt]

1- How old is he? Born September 9, 1949 which would make him 55 this year.

2- What arts did he study? Sandan in the Korean art of Tang Soo Do (4 years) and Ninjutsu (So far 30 years)
2A - How long did he study each art? (See above)
2B - What ranks did he reach in those arts? Sandan in the Korean art of Tang Soo Do 10th Dan in Ninjutsu (See links below)
2C - Who did he study under or with? Masaaki Hatsumi (See links below)

3- How old was he when he founded his To Shin Do? In 1997 when he was 48 or 49 years old http://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/Stephen%20K.%20Hayes

4- What is the difference between [font=Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Sans-serif,sans-serif]To Shin Do and Ninjitsu?[/font]

(See link above)

Hey there Bester. I found this link. I hope it helps a little. It won't answer all your questions, but it might be interesting. http://www.skhquest.com/articles/MasaakiHatsumi.aspx

Hope this helps.

 

[Bester]

Thank you.

 

[Bester]

I did a search for books and videos relating to him. The results at Amazon were interesting to say the least. (I think their search is broken).

I found this: The Last Ninja - Bujinkan TaiKai USA DVD which while most likely belonging on the traditional side, may be of interest here as well.

It was interesting to see the number of books he's been involved in as well. (http://www.skhquest.com/shop/booklist.aspx) I have 3 of them, wasn't aware there were so many others though still in print.

(Have these: The Ninja and Their Secret Fighting Art, Ninjutsu: The Art of the Invisible Warrior, The Mystic Arts of the Ninja: Hypnotism, Invisibility, and Weaponry)

Time to head to check out Half.com.

 

[Satt]

Glad I could help. :asian:

 

[Limeydog]

Hey Bester,

Thanks for letting me know about half.com as I had never heard of it before (I know DUH???)

Time to go shopping

Later
Patrick

PS. I posted a reply to your questions but it ain't appeared...poop

 

[Limeydog]

Found my post. It's in the Toshindo question...man my brain is fried today with a capitol Z...LOL

Thank God its Friday...make mine a cold Newcastle Brown Ale.

Patrick

 

[Bester]

I know what you mean. I normally only have time to pop in read a few then back to work. It has been a very slow day that has let me spend alot more time on the forums than either me, or some folks here like. Thankfully, it is quitting time, finally.

 

[Limeydog]

FREEDOM!!!!!!!!!

William Wallace


I'm stuck at work til 10pm. Have a beer on me.

Patrick

 

[Tgace]

Alright. Ive posed this question before and have looked through old threads but cant seem to get a straight answer.

What is the problem with SKH? Im not apractitioner, just an 80's ninja craze groupie who purchased all his books back then. I always thought he was "The Man" when it came to ninjutsu in the US. A couple of decades later hes "persona non grata". What happened? Now I read rumors that anybody who trains with him isnt welcome in the Bujinkan. I was under the impression the whole To-Shin Do thing was Hatsumi approved.

What gives?

 

[cashwo]

Alright. Ive posed this question before and have looked through old threads but cant seem to get a straight answer.

What is the problem with SKH? Im not apractitioner, just an 80's ninja craze groupie who purchased all his books back then. I always thought he was "The Man" when it came to ninjutsu in the US. A couple of decades later hes "persona non grata". What happened? Now I read rumors that anybody who trains with him isnt welcome in the Bujinkan. I was under the impression the whole To-Shin Do thing was Hatsumi approved.

What gives?

I've been reading all these post wondering the same thing.

 

[Bester]

The short answer is that Hatsumi has sort of "cut off" all those who haven't actively been training with him from awarding ranks and teaching Bujinkan arts. There is a mention of a rift between the 2 men. Hayes does still have his teaching credentials AFAIK though he only teaches the Bujinkan to a select group, teaching his ToShinDo to the masses. It is marketed as a modernized and Americanized version of his Bujinkan training, however some say it is watered down. Others insist it is excellent.

My limited understanding is that its similar to the differences between Parker and Tracy Kenpo, or the differences between JKD schools, etc. I'm probably wrong, but feel it's close enough "for goverment work".

 

[Bester]

There was an old thread from the early days of MartialTalk in the Ninjutsu forum that had some detailed information on it. I don't have the link handy, but if you go there and use the "Search this Forum" and put in "Hayes" it should turn up. These guys seem to save everything. Aint it great?

 

[gmunoz]

Actually, Mr. Hayes is still teaching Bujinkan and extending rank diplomas through his Quest Center in Dayton Ohio. One can even, upon request, train long distance using the To-Shin Do DVD curriculum and receive a Bujinkan diploma signed by Hatsumi. Just wanted to clarify.

The rumors that Hatsumi and Hayes are estranged, are simply that, rumors that have for the most part originated from internet discussions. Don't believe everything you hear and read. An-Shu Hayes still goes to Japan every year or so with his family to train with Hatsumi.

 

[Bester]

Ok, clarification needed:
You can train To-Shin Do, but earn Bujinkan rank? That does not seem right, considering the differences mentioned between the 2.

Otherwise it is good to know he is keeping up with Hatsumi.

 

[gmunoz]

Ok, clarification needed:
You can train To-Shin Do, but earn Bujinkan rank? That does not seem right, considering the differences mentioned between the 2.

Otherwise it is good to know he is keeping up with Hatsumi.

Yes. That is correct. Train To-Shin Do and earn a Buj rank.