Question about Jo staff diameter/thickness

Alan0354

Master of Arts
Joined
Apr 29, 2021
Messages
1,694
Reaction score
527
I find that many of the so-called quality sticks at martial arts stores are rather lacking... They're mass produced, with more of an eye towards appearance than function. Many have poor grain... and you have to pay for the pretty stain they put on it. A closet pole is often cheaper to learn the motions on, and often much more convenient to purchase and pick a decent one.
I bought my crook cane from this place. They have bo staff. I have NO IDEA whether it is good or not. I can only say the 4 canes I bought, the grain is quite straight, they actually said they choose the grain to make the cane also. I wack each cane for a few minutes on my heavy bag and they survived.

I don't know anything about bo staffs, so read their description. I can only stand by their canes.
Purpleheart Armoury
 

Kung Fu Wang

Sr. Grandmaster
MT Mentor
Joined
Sep 26, 2012
Messages
12,568
Reaction score
3,793
Location
Austin, Tx/Shell Beach, Ca
Get stronger. It's as simple as that.
If you train with a copper pipe and filled sand weight inside, the pole training can make you strong.

john_pole_2.jpg
 

JowGaWolf

Sr. Grandmaster
MT Mentor
Joined
Aug 3, 2015
Messages
12,435
Reaction score
4,803
Actually I never learn short short staff, but lately I actually came up very similar idea like this from remembering in the movie.

I am right handed, so left hand at the end of the cane. The cane is too short to strike like in the videos, but I actually use the crook end and PUNCH out like jab or cross punching. I keep my hands close to 4" apart to get better control(cane is too short for any wider grip). I practice very close to in the videos. One thing I have to try is from the first video to step aside to strike.

One thing, The cane should NOT be too heavy. If you hit like in the videos, you can use a lot heavier stick/cane because the target stop the cane. You can recover fast. It's when you MISS, it would be very slow to stop the cane and pull back. I experiment a lot. People should try themselves to swing and miss, see how much the stick pull you.

I use a deflated speed bag, putting 4lbs of soft weight in it and hit with the cane. It moves reasonable fast. I aim at the very bottom so I miss a lot and swing empty. I concentrate on how fast I can recover.

One even more important thing. If you don't get use to missing, when you miss where you expect to hit, there is a chance the cane will fly off your hand particular it's too heavy.

Don't just pick the weight for hitting the bag, pick for miss, recovery time and NOT losing the stick.

I don't think I am weak(not strong either), wearing 75lbs weight jacket to do 25 pushups with feet up 2ft high. Curl 40lbs dumbbells. 20oz cane that is 33" long is the MAX I am comfortable. That's already a huge improvement from last year through better use of body motion. It's the recovery and not losing the stick that really matters.

Just swinging in air DO NOT COUNT. You don't expect to hit anything, so you are prepared. Trouble comes when you expect to hit but miss.
I was going to write answer each thing you brought up. But instead I'm going to give you something to think about.

Why do people who know how to swing with proper technique don't have the same issues that you have?
 

Alan0354

Master of Arts
Joined
Apr 29, 2021
Messages
1,694
Reaction score
527
I was going to write answer each thing you brought up. But instead I'm going to give you something to think about.

Why do people who know how to swing with proper technique don't have the same issues that you have?
Well, educate me how do you swing a heavy stick and recover fast.
 

Alan0354

Master of Arts
Joined
Apr 29, 2021
Messages
1,694
Reaction score
527
Proper body mechanics and stances. Something you may actually have to be taught properly and corrected on in person.
I know about swinging in circle like from one shoulder to the other to complete a swing type of basic stuffs. I find a lot of the stick technique are for open space with nothing in the path of swing. This is not real world.

I would really like to know how to swing in more confined space with a heavy cane or stick. Like in real life situation where you have furniture, people in the way, that you cannot complete a circle of swing.
 

wab25

Master Black Belt
Joined
Sep 22, 2017
Messages
1,223
Reaction score
1,068

I have a hanbo from these guys... it is very nice, very strong and moves well in the hands. They do have some good links from this page to help determine the size. They have a lot of good information here...
 

JowGaWolf

Sr. Grandmaster
MT Mentor
Joined
Aug 3, 2015
Messages
12,435
Reaction score
4,803
Well, educate me how do you swing a heavy stick and recover fast.
I don't mind teaching you if you are serious about learning. It's not a one step process, there are drills you'll need to do to help build up your strength and get the right technique down. None of it's difficult. It's like everything else practice, practice practice. Technique is going to play a big role as well. All you need is something as long as a broom stick to swing. It's easier to learn big movements first then shrink the same movement down as needed.
 

JowGaWolf

Sr. Grandmaster
MT Mentor
Joined
Aug 3, 2015
Messages
12,435
Reaction score
4,803
I find a lot of the stick technique are for open space with nothing in the path of swing. This is not real world.

Take note of how close they are when the staffs start to swing very fast. They are fighting close range, those are close range striking techniques. These techniques could be used with a Jo and some canes
1674516057771.png


How much space do you need? Not much. Grocery stores, department stores, Many fast food restaurants (McDonalds, Burger King, Wendy's) have more than enough space. A lot of people get attacked in parking lots and side walks so those would zones would be maximum space.

You can see the similar strikes here but with the Jo
 

JowGaWolf

Sr. Grandmaster
MT Mentor
Joined
Aug 3, 2015
Messages
12,435
Reaction score
4,803
I would really like to know how to swing in more confined space with a heavy cane or stick. Like in real life situation where you have furniture, people in the way, that you cannot complete a circle of swing.
"You want to learn how to swing in more confined space" But I don't think it's that being of a deal since most businesses have more than enough space to swing and throw stuff. I would be more worried about people picking up a chair and trying to hit me with the chair. If furniture is around then someone will probably throw it at you. This lady threw the chair about 6 feet and almost hit the person on the left. He's wearing a dark shirt and white pants. It was an impressive throw as I thought that chair would have been heavier.
1674517841356.png


I don't know what type of environment you are in where it's that small, where there's no room to swing a cane. Most businesses have high ceilings to that makes vertical strikes possible.

Give me an example of a close space that you think you may find yourself in.
 
OP
M

mike 165

White Belt
Joined
Jan 21, 2023
Messages
10
Reaction score
2
Location
Northern Virginia
"You want to learn how to swing in more confined space" But I don't think it's that being of a deal since most businesses have more than enough space to swing and throw stuff. I would be more worried about people picking up a chair and trying to hit me with the chair. If furniture is around then someone will probably throw it at you. This lady threw the chair about 6 feet and almost hit the person on the left. He's wearing a dark shirt and white pants. It was an impressive throw as I thought that chair would have been heavier.
View attachment 29515

I don't know what type of environment you are in where it's that small, where there's no room to swing a cane. Most businesses have high ceilings to that makes vertical strikes possible.

Give me an example of a close space that you think you may find yourself in.
I could give you mine. I live in a trailer, and if I use my Jo in self defense it will most likely be there. i am drilling the 20 Suburi movements, and find that I cannot swing overhand, but have to use slow, purposeful movements to avoid hitting the ceiling or the fan.
To be fair, when the weather is good I train outdoors.
And to be even more fair, I drill with my cane indoors a bit, and the lower ceiling has not been an issue.
But I'm using a standard hickory cane; nothing extended length.
I have a 3 ft red oak dowel in my vehicle that is used as a hood prop. I'm thinking of buying a 4 ft oak dowel off of Amazon and lopping about 6 inches off of that; I think I would not miss those 6 inches, and it would be perfect for home defense.
In a standard home with standard ceiling height I think I'd have no issues utilizing a 4 ft Jo.
 

JowGaWolf

Sr. Grandmaster
MT Mentor
Joined
Aug 3, 2015
Messages
12,435
Reaction score
4,803
I could give you mine. I live in a trailer, and if I use my Jo in self defense it will most likely be there.
In your case if you think you are going use it there, then your best option will be jabs / stab with the Jo and fighting with the Jo with your hands in this position on the Jo. Those are you only option for confined spaces like that. Depending on how large your trailer is, you may have more room, but I'm assuming the worse case scenario in terms of size. Keep in mind, that this isn't a lesson. It's just some insight on what you may be dealing with in such a small space.
1674520586016.png



In this size. There's going to be a lot of stab like attacks similar to how you would try to stab someone with a spear. It will help but at this size I'm thinking smaller weapons and something with a blade. You would have to literally become really good at keeping the Jo between you and your attacker. You'll have to develop accuracy like crazy because you will be in trouble if they slip past the end of your Jo.
Heartland-Wilderness-Travel-Trailer-Living-Area.jpe


Accuracy drills are are going to be beneficial and my opinion a must because there is no blade at the end of a Jo. You can do some over head swings but now you are talking about grappling range at that point. As long as you can keep that end of these Jo where he can't get around it then that's your best bet.
@ 6:40

Here's a home owner who used a spear in a space smaller than this. It is so tight that there's no way to get around to attack from the side. No swinging is necessary and isn't the best option for such a tight space.

For me, at such a close range, I'm not thinking Jo. I would want to have some other options available for me. But if there are no other options then stabbing /jabbing strikes are what you are looking at in terms of being in small spaces like that. In such spaces there no need for big over head swings because it's simply is not the right place for that. Always remember to use the best strike for the right environment. If you have the accuracy to push the end of a Jo into the face of someone then it will only take a couple of jabs before they begin to have enough.

This is similar to what I'm talking about when things get into grappling range Take a note of the placement of his hands.

one more with the hand position
 

JowGaWolf

Sr. Grandmaster
MT Mentor
Joined
Aug 3, 2015
Messages
12,435
Reaction score
4,803
First technique in Jow Ga beginner staff form. This can be done with a cane or even an escrima stick. The concept is simple. Someone tries to take your weapon. The stick /cane/ staff is held low. this forces your attacker to reach downward and place his face within range of your weapon. The can can smash the teeth, under the nose or on the nose. There is no need to aim the attack because the technique makes it possible to land the strike.


This is seems boring, but it's one of the most important strikes for close range fighting and short staff fighting.
Someone gets too close? Smash them in their face,
Someone tries to tie up your arms? Smash them in the face or the ribs. If you are too soon it hits their face. If you are a little late then it will hit the ribs.
Someone tries to take your staff? Smash them in their face.
Someone throws a punch at you? Smash their punching hand with the same technique. The dropping of the stance helps to avoid the punch. The lifting of the stick pops the punch upward. Pushing the stick forward will either grind down the arm and hit the elbow or it will hit the ribs

Training this one motion over and over is boring. It will seem useless but as will develop the necessary power as you train it. Each week will make the strike stronger and you'll develop a really good comfort level in which you begin to see other opportunities after the strike.
 

Kung Fu Wang

Sr. Grandmaster
MT Mentor
Joined
Sep 26, 2012
Messages
12,568
Reaction score
3,793
Location
Austin, Tx/Shell Beach, Ca
there are drills you'll need to do to help build up your strength and get the right technique down.
When you hold your staff like this, you can use both ends to attack. This is why a staff is also called "2 heads snake".

1. A 45 degree downwad to the head with right end,
2. a 45 degree upward to the groin with left end,
3. a 45 degree downward to the head again with the left end,
4. release right hold, throw the 2/3 right end of the staff with left hold on top of your opponent's head (if he steps back),

can be a good 4 moves combo drill. Move 1,2,3 are short distance attacks (require less space). Move 4 is long distance attack.

staff_hold.png
 
Last edited:
OP
M

mike 165

White Belt
Joined
Jan 21, 2023
Messages
10
Reaction score
2
Location
Northern Virginia
I've viewed that video; I'll add it to my routine. Many thanks to you both. This was my first post here, and it was 100% positive and very helpful
 

JowGaWolf

Sr. Grandmaster
MT Mentor
Joined
Aug 3, 2015
Messages
12,435
Reaction score
4,803
can be a good 4 moves combo drill. Move 1,2,3 are short distance attacks (require less space).
I agree with you that is a good combo to train. It's important to know what makes the strikes long and what makes the strikes short.
 

Latest Discussions

Top