Q's from Systema newbie

[tstand]

I just tried systema for the first time and loved it. It was much more interesting to me than American Kenpo, which I tried for about 5 months. I have a couple of questions for any current systema practitioners.

1. Would it be a bad thing to take another art at the same time, like Muay Thai or BJJ? I can go to a local MMA school several times a week. The local systema group only meets once a week, or I would focus on it exclusively.

2. Is systema useful for self defense, or would an MMA style be more effective? The Bullshido crowd thinks Systema is a joke.

Thanks for your input

 

[blindsage]

Well, since none of the actual Systema people seemed to have noticed your question I'll tell you what little I can.

1. Most people I have heard of who study Systema have or continue to study more than just Systema. But keep in mind, when you are new to MA that often it is better to focus on one style for a while (meaning a couple years) so that you can really incorporate that systems style of movement and body usage. Training in multiple styles can be conflicting and confusing for a new student.

2. The Bullshido crowd thinks anything that doesn't fit into a specific narrow mold is a joke. Then again, most Systema people will obviously tell you, yes, it's definitely good for self-defense. I have not trained in it personally, but from what I have seen, I like it. IMHO, most styles can be useful for self-defense, it's how the people in the school train that determines this more than the style itself. If you like Systema, then go with it, but always keep in mind how to apply what you are learning in a realistic scenario. And remember, there is no magic, amazing skills are the result of long commitment to serious training.

 

[Furtry]

I just tried systema for the first time and loved it. It was much more interesting to me than American Kenpo, which I tried for about 5 months. I have a couple of questions for any current systema practitioners.

1. Would it be a bad thing to take another art at the same time, like Muay Thai or BJJ? I can go to a local MMA school several times a week. The local systema group only meets once a week, or I would focus on it exclusively.

2. Is systema useful for self defense, or would an MMA style be more effective? The Bullshido crowd thinks Systema is a joke.

Thanks for your input

1. No

2. Yes

 

[tstand]

Well, since none of the actual Systema people seemed to have noticed your question I'll tell you what little I can.

1. Most people I have heard of who study Systema have or continue to study more than just Systema. But keep in mind, when you are new to MA that often it is better to focus on one style for a while (meaning a couple years) so that you can really incorporate that systems style of movement and body usage. Training in multiple styles can be conflicting and confusing for a new student.

2. The Bullshido crowd thinks anything that doesn't fit into a specific narrow mold is a joke. Then again, most Systema people will obviously tell you, yes, it's definitely good for self-defense. I have not trained in it personally, but from what I have seen, I like it. IMHO, most styles can be useful for self-defense, it's how the people in the school train that determines this more than the style itself. If you like Systema, then go with it, but always keep in mind how to apply what you are learning in a realistic scenario. And remember, there is no magic, amazing skills are the result of long commitment to serious training.

Thank you, Sage!

 

[tstand]

2. Yes

Yes Systema is useful? Yes MMA is more useful?

 

[Brian King]

Sometimes silence IS the correct answer.

Regards
Brian King

 

[jks9199]

Sometimes silence IS the correct answer.

Regards
Brian King

Yeah, but it's not very helpful to discussion...

Why might silence be the best answer to these two questions?

What little I know of Systema seems to me that, while it's open to other arts, there's some pretty different principles at play, and that can always be a concern when training multiple arts... Is that right?

And, of course, being good for self defense is always one of those questions that boils down to individual training and practice. But Systema really was used by the Spetsnaz and other Soviet & Russian military forces, so it apparently has something going for it as a starting point, no?

 

[tstand]

Yeah, but it's not very helpful to discussion...

Why might silence be the best answer to these two questions?

What little I know of Systema seems to me that, while it's open to other arts, there's some pretty different principles at play, and that can always be a concern when training multiple arts... Is that right?

And, of course, being good for self defense is always one of those questions that boils down to individual training and practice. But Systema really was used by the Spetsnaz and other Soviet & Russian military forces, so it apparently has something going for it as a starting point, no?

Thanks for a substantive answer. BTW: I'm reading Rory Miller's book now.

 

[Brian King]

“Yeah, but it's not very helpful to discussion...”

I am sorry but JKS9199 but you are mistaken and there are obvious reasons the post did not receive replies from Systema people, although from your perspective you will think that I or even Furtry are being rude, secretive or deliberately vague in the replies but that is OK, you are not a student of Systema so the replies may not make sense to you. Taken as Systema questions asked by a Systema student the replies are very good for the questions tstand asked and the way they were asked. If the questions had been asked by some generic person who has not and may not ever study our art the answers may well have been different. There are different expectations and responsibilities.

“Why might silence be the best answer to these two questions?”

Two questions, really?

Original post was
“1. Would it be a bad thing to take another art at the same time (first question), like Muay Thai (second question) or BJJ? (third question) I can go to a local MMA school several times a week. The local systema group only meets once a week, or I would focus on it exclusively. (these ‘facts’ would all have to fleshed out to give a honest response, to find out if the MMA gym was any good, is their type of work compatible to what a beginning Systema student might be learning, what kind of Systema is the questioner learning, is the instructor teaching tstand any good, does tstand as a student have the ability or desire to work Systema drills while not in class?)

2. Is systema useful for self defense (fourth question), or would an MMA style be more effective? (Fifth question) The Bullshido crowd thinks Systema is a joke.” (sixth question implied)

If you add in the information provided, trained for 5 months in a previous martial art but then apparently lost interest in that art for whatever reason, and attended their very first Systema class a mental picture of both the original poster and what they are really ‘asking’ is starting to be formed.

You have somebody that easily gets bored and loses interest and quits, while at the same time being so enthused that they are doing all kinds of ‘research’ online and in that enthusiasm are throwing out a bunch of questions any one of which would, if a Systema practitioner were to answer would take a considerable amount of time to answer fully and honestly. And in the perceived condition of the original poster, for myself, I figured they would not have heard as can be further seen by the reply to Furtry’s post. So any reply would not only been a been a poor use of my time but would have denied tstand a true learning experience.

“Why might silence be the best answer”

Obviously silence can be used to draw out a student. If a child (I am not calling tstand a child LOL) and they do not get their parents attention at the first calling, they often ask again and again, as they get older they learn to ask the questions multiple ways in order to attempt to get the answer they are seeking, as they approach teen years they learn not only how to ask the questions but which parent to ask. They get sophisticated in how to seek knowledge and what knowledge to seek

What does that have to do with Systema. Systema is not a spoon fed martial art. The students are trained to think for themselves, encouraged to explore and test everything and to challenge the instructors. Sometimes the answers to questions help the student to better form the next questions and to better understand the prior answers

“Why might silence be the best answer”

“Poiznai Sebia” is a corner stone of Systema. It is almost a mandate. Discover yourself. If tstand would have been allowed to wonder why his/her post was not getting a reply she/he might have taken the time to reread it, taken the time to learn if those were actually the questions and the first impression to start off a journey with and may have reflected and then again asked those questions that were truly important to their understanding. They were unintentionally robbed of this opportunity by blindsage, who with good intentions attempted to answer albeit from ignorance questions asked from ignorance. It does make conversation but as far as discussion goes it seldom if ever is a productive conversation in my opinion but is often just a bunch of noise drowning out the real lessons.

Goals. I was hoping by remaining silent tstand would have after a tiny bit of reflection came back and fleshed out his posts. Might have figured out what he/she really wanted to know and attempted to ask those questions in a way that would have been more beneficial to true discussion. Perhaps fleshed out their profile or posted location or some other clue as to what kind of Systema they were learning and what kind of MMA gym they were talking about. Keeping silent was a service to tstand and MT by giving tstand time to demonstrate what kind of student they were or could be or rope to hang if tstand ends up being some kind of troll. Silence can allow an instructor to quietly observe the student.

“Why might silence be the best answer”

If the answers given would not have helped the questioner then silence is an acceptable reply in my opinion. Take the questions above.

1. Maybe depends on the student
2. Maybe depends on the student
3. Maybe depends on the student
4. Yes
5. Depends on which cage you are going to be fighting in
6. Not all of them and why do you care?

All honest replies yet none would by themselves further anything let alone any honest discussion.

Often the best answers are not wordy instant spoon feed replies and instructors like Furtry have totally changed my work for the better by a single word given at the appropriate time. Sometimes this was not understood at the time but later was seen for the truth and as being VERY helpful.

I hope this reply has been helpful to your curiosity jks9199 about why sometimes silence is the best answer. I am assuming that your other questions were just to make conversation and not seriously asked besides this post is long enough as it is.

Regards
Brian King

 

[jks9199]

Silence as a tool to draw out information or prompt reformulation of a question is a great tool, in conversation. It kind of sucks, though, when the time frame is measured in days or hours. At that point, you lose the "expectancy" that prompts a response, and you generate an attitude of "they're ignoring me."

I freely admit I know next to nothing about Systema except a very little bit of it's history, and some vague concepts; most of that I've learned from you and others here. In fact, my post contained most of my knowledge of Systema -- which is why I was mildly amused to have it labeled "constructive." It was more a shot to maybe trigger some input from the Systema folks here...

 

[tstand]

In fact, my post contained most of my knowledge of Systema -- which is why I was mildly amused to have it labeled "constructive."

Well, I was just glad to have a reply with more than four words, although I recognize being silent could be useful under some circumstances.

FYI - I'm pretty serious about all this, I'm not just trolling for information and never intending to act on what I learn.

So far I've only attended Systema twice and it is very enjoyable. I'll probably still seek a second art since Systema is only offered once a week in our area. Last week I had a class of BJJ which wasn't very fun for me, and this week I'm taking a class in Muay Thai. There is also a school offering Krav Maga and I'd like to check it out. I know it probably isn't fair to only give an art a once-shot deal, but I'm at least trying to winnow the field a bit since there are so many options.

 

[jks9199]

Well, I was just glad to have a reply with more than four words, although I recognize being silent could be useful under some circumstances.

FYI - I'm pretty serious about all this, I'm not just trolling for information and never intending to act on what I learn.

So far I've only attended Systema twice and it is very enjoyable. I'll probably still seek a second art since Systema is only offered once a week in our area. Last week I had a class of BJJ which wasn't very fun for me, and this week I'm taking a class in Muay Thai. There is also a school offering Krav Maga and I'd like to check it out. I know it probably isn't fair to only give an art a once-shot deal, but I'm at least trying to winnow the field a bit since there are so many options.

I'd suggest discussing training in something else with your Systema instructor, if you're serious about Systema. They're in the best position to both know what they teach -- and what you need or what you can learn to complement it.

 

[tstand]

I'd suggest discussing training in something else with your Systema instructor, if you're serious about Systema. They're in the best position to both know what they teach -- and what you need or what you can learn to complement it.

Good idea. I'll do that.

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

Great advice as always from jks9199! I would ad that maybe even beyond your own instructor you could seek some input from our resident systema practitioners via pm on their opinions. Personally I have many students that travel to me and can only train once a week or less. They always go home and work their skill sets and then come back and train and learn some more. I have several practitioners that have really become excellent this way! So good luck!

 

[Furtry]

Yes Systema is useful? Yes MMA is more useful?

Systema is a principle based art. It is useful and the principles apply to anything you do.
Anything can be more useful than something else depending on the context.

I train with professional MMA and world class BJJ guys now days, no Systema practitioners arround, and Systema has given me the tools to excel in their paradigm.

 

[Robert Gergi]

take a look at this article titled "why Systema", it might help you find your answer
http://www.russianmartialart.com/ma...id=36&osCsid=77f64f3d32e18c864fe805e9165ea538

 

[goldwarrior]

I've never tried Systema, but I've heard it's a very effective from people who've tried it. My suggestion, like others said, is to stick with one class or style at first. If you feel comfortable doing so much Martial Arts every week, that's fine.

Personally I've found many places that claim to teach MMA and BJJ, really don't have good instructors. It also seems they don't know enough to justify being instructors. A lot of times I've seen the instructors have as much experience as I do.