Push on your opponent's shoulder when he punches you

Kung Fu Wang

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When your opponent throws a right punch at you, if you can push on his right shoulder, you can stop his punch before that punch can generate enough speed and power. You can solve the problem during the initial stage.

This simple solution has not been used very often in the striking art, why?

Your thought?
 

Flying Crane

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At what point In The delivery of his lunch are you able to push on his shoulder? When he first starts to move and his lunch is nowhere near you? At the end just before he lands it? Somewhere in the middle?
 
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Kung Fu Wang

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At what point In The delivery of his lunch are you able to push on his shoulder? When he first starts to move and his lunch is nowhere near you? At the end just before he lands it? Somewhere in the middle?
It depends.

Your hand have to be able to reach to your opponent's shoulder.

If you and your opponent's arm have the same length, it should work when you use straight line to deal your opponent's circular attack. It may be difficult to use this method to deal with your opponent's straight punch.
 
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isshinryuronin

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When your opponent throws a right punch at you, if you can push on his right shoulder, you can stop his punch before that punch can generate enough speed and power. You can solve the problem during the initial stage.

This simple solution has not been used very often in the striking art, why?

Your thought?
This is a move I embrace and we practice it at our dojo. Not only do you short circuit the punch, but throw the attacker's entire timing and mental balance off. Think of your disorientation after walking into a sliding glass door you thought was open. But I would not use the term "push." A quick, stiff palm heel strike is better - you don't need to move the opponent, just stop the punching motion.
At what point In The delivery of his lunch are you able to push on his shoulder? When he first starts to move and his lunch is nowhere near you? At the end just before he lands it? Somewhere in the middle?
As KF Wang says, it depends. It's best, I think, to deliver it ASAP. This will be aided by having a slightly extended guard so your palm will travel less distance than the punch and get to the target first. After you successfully execute this, the opponent will be "frozen" and open to most anything you want to hit him with. I explode with the lead palm heel, immediately followed with a reverse punch to the head.
 
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_Simon_

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This is a move I embrace and we practice it at our dojo. Not only do you short circuit the punch, but throw the attacker's entire timing and mental balance off. Think of your disorientation after walking into a sliding glass door you thought was open. But I would not use the term "push." A quick, stiff palm heel strike is better - you don't need to move the opponent, just stop the punching motion.

As KF Wang says, it depends. It's best, I think, to deliver it ASAP. This will be aided by having a slightly extended guard so your palm will travel less distance than the punch and get to the target first. After you successfully execute this, the opponent will be "frozen" and open to most anything you want to hit him with. I explode with the lead palm heel, immediately followed with a reverse punch to the head.
Yep we learned it and used it too. Except it was palm heel to the bicep, and man...... OUCH.
 

frank raud

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I learned to punch not the shoulder, but the area where the pectoral muscles meet the shoulder. The Brachial Plexus nerve is affected, deadens the arm and gives a slight stun. I learned it as a counter punch, you strike from the opposite side (he throws right, you throw right) with a body twist to increase the distance you can strike, as well as negating most of the power of his strike if you don't time it correctly. Even with boxing gloves, this will hurt your opponent.
 

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Sure..landing a strike to the shoulder before the punch arrives will disrupt it but 9/10 times the punch will land first. It's not only in motion before you move, it's a smaller more protected target than the head or body.

Low %
 

frank raud

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Sure..landing a strike to the shoulder before the punch arrives will disrupt it but 9/10 times the punch will land first. It's not only in motion before you move, it's a smaller more protected target than the head or body.

Low %
Can you block or parry a punch? That's a smaller target and it's moving. Obviously this won't in every situation, like if you're close in, but at arms length, if they throw a typical jab cross combo, you should be able to strike as he throws the cross. You may eat the jab, but most folks don't have a powerful jab.
 

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When your opponent throws a right punch at you, if you can push on his right shoulder, you can stop his punch before that punch can generate enough speed and power. You can solve the problem during the initial stage.

This simple solution has not been used very often in the striking art, why?

Your thought?
This is (sort of) the first entering move I teach, to get inside that power range of looping punches. It's a direct step to the shoulder with both arms moving out (from a close guard to pushing the shoulder). The hands move down the middle to obstruct (maybe even deflect) a straight punch. As others have said, when done well it disrupts the entire structure. At the very least, if successful, you've moved to clinch distance, though you have to guard against both the other hand and a move to take the back. Both can be defended either by movement or by directly shifting to offensive control (which reduces both the power of the other hand and the ability to move quickly to the back).
 

Martial D

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Can you block or parry a punch? That's a smaller target and it's moving. Obviously this won't in every situation, like if you're close in, but at arms length, if they throw a typical jab cross combo, you should be able to strike as he throws the cross. You may eat the jab, but most folks don't have a powerful jab.
Parry sure. Blocks generally are super low percentage too. With a parry you are intercepting at the elbow, a much closer target, and your hand doesn't need to move far assuming you have your guard up.

And while your presented scenario would and could work in theory..it's still problematic in a couple ways. First, anyone throwing a combo like that will have at least basic boxing, which means the feet will probably be moving. This means if you eat a jab to the face, and are able to continue your momentum at all after that, much less with any accuracy (unlikely), he will likely be off line when he throws the back hand.( Generally boxers will step in diagonally to the outside)

Secondly the whole purpose of the jab cross is to hide the cross. If it's done well you won't see it much less be able to intercept it with your palm all the way back at the shoulder.

All in all this is one of those things that looks neat during cooperative demonstrations, but good luck pulling it off against resistance.
 

gpseymour

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Sure..landing a strike to the shoulder before the punch arrives will disrupt it but 9/10 times the punch will land first. It's not only in motion before you move, it's a smaller more protected target than the head or body.

Low %
I've always viewed this kind of technique as highly situational. If you read a punch early (could just as easily be a feintl, and if you disrupt sufficiently, it shouldn't matter which it is), then this is available. That likely means it's either someone who has little finesse (they may punch hard, but they broadcast it) or someone who is raging (so movements aren't as controlled). Against someone with a bit of skill at compact punching, this would likely never come into play.
 

frank raud

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Parry sure. Blocks generally are super low percentage too. With a parry you are intercepting at the elbow, a much closer target, and your hand doesn't need to move far assuming you have your guard up.

And while your presented scenario would and could work in theory..it's still problematic in a couple ways. First, anyone throwing a combo like that will have at least basic boxing, which means the feet will probably be moving. This means if you eat a jab to the face, and are able to continue your momentum at all after that, much less with any accuracy (unlikely), he will likely be off line when he throws the back hand.( Generally boxers will step in diagonally to the outside)

Secondly the whole purpose of the jab cross is to hide the cross. If it's done well you won't see it much less be able to intercept it with your palm all the way back at the shoulder.

All in all this is one of those things that looks neat during cooperative demonstrations, but good luck pulling it off against resistance.
Are you arguing against this because you have tried it and found it doesn't work for you, or you just disagree with the technique without having tried it? I learned the technique in bare knuckle boxing, have used it in kickboxing sparring and in sport jiu jitsu. I'm not super fast by any stretch of the imagination, yet have managed to do this technique several times against different people. YVMV.
 

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I actually have seen this a few times and have used it once or twice but specifically against a wide swinging punch. It seems to be very circumstantial in when it will actually work and it tends to leave your chin exposed. So it's likely that it's just too high risk unless you are really familiar with your opponents fighting style. From playing around with it I'm personally only a fan of it if an untrained puncher close to my size is throwing a wild haymaker. Just my thoughts on it.
 

frank raud

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I actually have seen this a few times and have used it once or twice but specifically against a wide swinging punch. It seems to be very circumstantial in when it will actually work and it tends to leave your chin exposed. So it's likely that it's just too high risk unless you are really familiar with your opponents fighting style. From playing around with it I'm personally only a fan of it if an untrained puncher close to my size is throwing a wild haymaker. Just my thoughts on it.
So like most techniques, there is a time and a place for it?
 

Martial D

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Are you arguing against this because you have tried it and found it doesn't work for you, or you just disagree with the technique without having tried it? I learned the technique in bare knuckle boxing, have used it in kickboxing sparring and in sport jiu jitsu. I'm not super fast by any stretch of the imagination, yet have managed to do this technique several times against different people. YVMV.
I spar a lot, watch a lot of sparring and competition both locally and in general.

Why are people throwing punches in your jui jitsu matches?
 

Tony Dismukes

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When your opponent throws a right punch at you, if you can push on his right shoulder, you can stop his punch before that punch can generate enough speed and power. You can solve the problem during the initial stage.

This simple solution has not been used very often in the striking art, why?

Your thought?
It sounds like the basic concept you are describing is a stop-hit. The more common application for this concept is just a jab to the face as the opponent begins his punch. It achieves the same purpose and delivers some damage in the process. Furthermore, the face will usually be a more accessible target than the punching shoulder unless your opponent is throwing particularly sloppy punches.

That said, I have occasionally seen the tactic being used more or less as you describe. I think the key is something that @drop bear has pointed out before with regards to evasive head movement i.e. it doesn't work so well to wait until you see the punches being thrown before you react. In the case of evasive head movement, you are pre-emptively moving your head off the lines where the opponent is most likely to strike based on his current position. In the case of checking the punching shoulder, you might have your long guard already extended in front of your opponent's face, either to block their vision, manipulate their head or hands, or to provoke a specific reaction. If your hand is already in this position, then you have a realistic chance of catching their shoulder or taking other actions to stifle the punch before it gets started.

(I should note that this sort of extended guard has risks and drawbacks of its own. You'll see it used most often by bigger fighters with longer reach who are taking less of a chance with the tactic.)
 
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