Protege

[K' Evans]

In a recent conversation with my Sifu, the topic of having a descendant or protege was brought up in the martial arts world. Jokingly, I had asked my Sifu if he had any proteges in mind, as I assumed he might name his own children. Oddly, he instead refered to me as a possible candiate, and said that it was more of a question if anybody wanted to adopt him, than vice versa. He also spoke that he would probably choose a couple of people, instead of just relying on one.

I asked him what criterias he had in choosing a candiate, for I thought that it was too soon to consider me. I have only been studying under him for slightly less than a year; I was simply not proficient in our particular art and there are other highly capable classmates of mine to consider. He replied that this topic had been brought up before in a discussion between him and other seniors, and I was chosen because of 1) youth, and 2) enthuasism and passion. Another additional factor was,for lack of a better word, about being a "purist". Apparently, some of my other young classmates were still steeped in learning other martial arts and this could be a cause for concern.

Of course, I am incredibly honoured that he thinks of me favourably, but after this event, I have become curious about this whole notion of having descendants and proteges in the martial arts world. Sure, there is an important function being carried out, i.e. the passing down of cultural practices (which can be of a martial, religious or political nature), but somehow I think there are very unique features of this practice within the martial arts world.

For one, I don't think youth is particularly important. I think a Sensei or teacher should probably opt those who have demonstrated impressive development and proficiency in that said art, and age shouldn't be much of a factor. I also wonder if some of these masters actually have the desire to pass on their art. It seems to me that some masters rather carry their secrets with them to their graves instead of sharing them. Valuable knowledge is lost, but in a way, their iconic status will continue to be spoken of in history.

I also wonder if this is more of an Asian tradition than explicitly Western, given the analogous cultural practice in Asian cultures to pass down the family names, wealth and other achievements. I am not too sure if Western practitioners find themselves obligated within their cultural environments to practice this.

Do the teachers in this forum think of this question? And if you do, what exactly are you looking for in a student/protege? How important is it to you as a martial artist?

 

[CuongNhuka]

By youth he probably just means you aren't likely to die shortly after being put in charge. As for the rest, I don't know what to tell you. Although I don't understnad the purist part. From what I've read it seems like a Jeet Kune Do instructor would look for a someone who is intristed in other arts. After all Bruce Lee seemed to be more intristed in expasion of knowledge and comprehension then closed mindedness.
Or I could just be dumb

 

[Em MacIntosh]

They have to beat Chuck Norris! Then I give thema big shiny belt, a medal and my job.

 

[Xue Sheng]

In a recent conversation with my Sifu, the topic of having a descendant or protege was brought up in the martial arts world. Jokingly, I had asked my Sifu if he had any proteges in mind, as I assumed he might name his own children. Oddly, he instead refered to me as a possible candiate, and said that it was more of a question if anybody wanted to adopt him, than vice versa. He also spoke that he would probably choose a couple of people, instead of just relying on one.

I asked him what criterias he had in choosing a candiate, for I thought that it was too soon to consider me. I have only been studying under him for slightly less than a year; I was simply not proficient in our particular art and there are other highly capable classmates of mine to consider. He replied that this topic had been brought up before in a discussion between him and other seniors, and I was chosen because of 1) youth, and 2) enthuasism and passion. Another additional factor was,for lack of a better word, about being a "purist". Apparently, some of my other young classmates were still steeped in learning other martial arts and this could be a cause for concern.

Of course, I am incredibly honoured that he thinks of me favourably, but after this event, I have become curious about this whole notion of having descendants and proteges in the martial arts world. Sure, there is an important function being carried out, i.e. the passing down of cultural practices (which can be of a martial, religious or political nature), but somehow I think there are very unique features of this practice within the martial arts world.

For one, I don't think youth is particularly important. I think a Sensei or teacher should probably opt those who have demonstrated impressive development and proficiency in that said art, and age shouldn't be much of a factor. I also wonder if some of these masters actually have the desire to pass on their art. It seems to me that some masters rather carry their secrets with them to their graves instead of sharing them. Valuable knowledge is lost, but in a way, their iconic status will continue to be spoken of in history.

I also wonder if this is more of an Asian tradition than explicitly Western, given the analogous cultural practice in Asian cultures to pass down the family names, wealth and other achievements. I am not too sure if Western practitioners find themselves obligated within their cultural environments to practice this.

Do the teachers in this forum think of this question? And if you do, what exactly are you looking for in a student/protege? How important is it to you as a martial artist?

Congratulations.

CMA is big on lineage and inside students. Not as big as many believe but it still exists. And although JKD is technically not CMA its founder comes from CMA so it is not surprising that this happened in a JKD class.

The Yang family passed on its Taiji from Yang Chengfu to Yang Chengfu's oldest son Yang Shou Zhong, Fu Zhongwen and Tung Ying Chieh. Yang Chengfu had a WHOLE lot of students but he did not pass the lineage on to them all.

As to purists; my sanda sifu has no problem with my Taiji but he did have a problem with my Xingyi. The reason, I have been doing Taiji considerably longer than Xingyi and Sanda and I was a beginner at both Sanda and Xingyi and he did not see how I could do either justice as a beginner.

My Taiji sifu had no problem with Xingyi but I am not sure how he feels about Sanda and I am not going to ask.

I am not sure who your Sifu is but both my Taiji sifu and Sanda sifu are from China and they both consider "seriousness" important.

My Taiji sifu will teach anyone that shows up but he will not show them more advanced stuff if they are not serious.

My sanda sifu will not teach anyone that is not serious. Nor will he continue to teach anyone that abuses what he has taught them or does not train like he feels they should. Surprisingly he is the younger of the 2, but he has been in the US a shorter period of time.

Not sure if that helps, but I tried.

 

[K' Evans]

Thanks for your reply. I was actually fearful that this thread be brought up since it doesn't seem to be a good topic for discussion. I also hope I didn't come across as someone boastful or bore anyone with my personal experience, but it was how the topic came up for me.

Yes, indeed I agree that the CMA are particularly unique for having this "lineage" practice. Although JKD is technically not a CMA, and frankly, JKD is now more popular in Western circles than Asian, my Sifu's teacher (Ted Wong) seems to be follow a pretty "traditional" mindset when it comes to teaching and passing down martial arts. My guess is that my Sifu harbours some of these beliefs as well.

I am not very familiar with some of the CMAs (in particular Xingyi) you mentioned, but I suppose the "purist" element comes into play if the various martial arts are actually in contradiction with each other. Sanda and Taichi seems to be quite antithetical (sp) to each other, unless the Taiji you practice is not of the combative form. I don't believe your Sifu would mind if they all complimented each other.

I don't think there is anything wrong in teaching advanced material exclusively to serious students, but I would ask as to how a student should be fairly judged as "serious". Certainly attendance is one criteria, but I think sometimes students may be very serious about learning but are restricted to undertake it seriously due to other factors (e.g. family committments, financial, work committments, etc). I understand this question does sort of open up a can of worms, but I do think it can be kinda subjective when it comes to assessing how "serious" a student is.

Regarding CyongNhuka's comment abt JKD as cross-training, just to explain, this is actually an internal issue of contention within JKD circles. There is nothing wrong with cross-training, but as to how far it should be practised is an issue of debate. The JKD Concepts school would argue that it is all about cross-training, whereas some teachers of the JKD Original school would encourage cross-training but not to the extent that you become steeped into that particular's art style and forget JKD's structure. For myself, there is definitely a physical structure to adhere to as well as some core rules within Jun Fan JKD's philosophy which sets a particular direction regarding cross-training.

 

[Xue Sheng]

I am not very familiar with some of the CMAs (in particular Xingyi) you mentioned, but I suppose the "purist" element comes into play if the various martial arts are actually in contradiction with each other. Sanda and Taichi seems to be quite antithetical (sp) to each other, unless the Taiji you practice is not of the combative form. I don't believe your Sifu would mind if they all complimented each other.

All you really need to know about Xingyi, unless you plan on training it, is that it covers distance fast and hits like a truck. And don't let anyone fool you it is not all straight line.

My Taiji is a martial art and to be honest Sanda and Taiji, at least to me feel very complimentary. They give you different views of confrontation which I kind of like. However my Taiji sifu may see them as contradictory so for now he does not know about it.

Good luck with JKD