Privacy in "application"

[mrhnau]

I recently decided to join a local dojo. I have to fill out an application and contract. The contract I can understand, its basically a waiver if you get injured and you can get a reduced rate ($10) if you contract for 6 months (I'm fine with that part). The problem comes with the "application". The guy is asking for my Social Security number and my Drivers Licence number. I'm huge on personal privacy, so I'm going to refuse to give him that information.

Has anyone else had to deal with this before? Is this sort of thing common? What possible reason could he need my SSN and DL info for? My monthly fees are sure not tax deductible! The guy does have an age limit for classes, so I can understand -seeing- my ID to make sure I'm old enough, but I'm just about as old as he is (30's), so it sure should not be an issue.

Any logical reason he might have for asking? Think the response for refusing will be bad?

MrH

 

[Martial Tucker]

I have never signed a contract to train, but it is my understanding that some
(perhaps many) schools with contracts will sell the contracts to a local bank at a discount for instant cash flow. I wouldn't be surprised to find out your school wants the info so if they want to "sell" your contract, the buyer can run a credit report/check on you. Just a guess......

I guess if this is an issue for you, you have the option of paying the extra $10/month and skipping the contract.

 

[Sapper6]

you will often find that some studios that require contracts possess intentions of legal recourse against you should you falter on your end and breach the contract. there are instances where new students sign up initially for the haul, not having a problem with doing so under contractual terms, only later bailing out after a few lessons. in this instance, the studio owner could seek judgment against you in civil court, hence damaging your credit. this is only one possible reason for needing an SSN.

contracts in the MA business are a touchy subject to most. there are certainly pros and cons to having such. as for me, i study under a 12 month contract with my studio. i've never had a problem with doing so as i've been doing it for the last 11 years.

good luck to you.

 

[bignick]

Is he using a collection service for montly fees? That might explain it. But I wouldn't give out my number with some more info either

 

[mrhnau]

He uses no collection agency, most of his students just bring a check once a month.

With regards to selling information to banks, he would not get alot! I'd be his 4th student.

The only thing I could think of was running a criminal background check, to make sure I'm not some kind of bad guy. Still, I think its rather odd... What exactly is needed to run a criminal background?

 

[Sapper6]

What exactly is needed to run a criminal background?

if im not mistaken, your SSN and access to an NCIC.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Legally I don't believe he has a right to ask for your SSN.

See:
http://banking.yahoo.com/20020123b02.html
http://moneycentral.msn.com/content/Banking/FinancialPrivacy/P33718.asp

I never give out my SSN unless it's one of the few "must gives". I don't put it on job aps. Had one company insist they needed it. I said you don't need it until you're paying me. I said, when you hire me, and I fill out my withholding form, I'll list it then, not before.

 

[Sapper6]

good advice.

:supcool:

 

[DavidCC]

you will often find that some studios that require contracts possess intentions of legal recourse against you should you falter on your end and breach the contract. ... the studio owner could seek judgment against you in civil court, hence damaging your credit. this is only one possible reason for needing an SSN.

yes, in fact I think this is the primary reason for anyone to write any contract, isn't it?

And if someone fails to uphold their end of a contract, haven't THEY done the damage to THEIR OWN credit?

 

[arnisador]

Asking for an SSN...that's very unusual. I have heard of a few groups that do run criminal background checks before letting a person train--how they get this done I do not know--but I would be very, very leary of this.

 

[Sapper6]

yes, in fact I think this is the primary reason for anyone to write any contract, isn't it?

And if someone fails to uphold their end of a contract, haven't THEY done the damage to THEIR OWN credit?

oh absolutely, but not ALL the time. i have seen some pretty unlawful and binding contracts in MA. i have seen instances where students get hosed because there was no clause in the contract for injury preventing training, job relocation, extenuating circumstances, etc, that would keep that student from fulfilling his contractual obligation, hence, giving said student an "out". i think this should be a necessity and by most statutes, a state requirement. i know Missouri allows for this in its revised statutes, which i've had to point out to people who needed a "hand" with a problem. so it's not entirely the students fault, 100% of the time, if he or she cannot fulfill their contractual obligation.

 

[Cryozombie]

And if someone fails to uphold their end of a contract, haven't THEY done the damage to THEIR OWN credit?

Depends why they fail to uphold their end of the contract.

I know a guy VERY WELL who got a cell phone from Verizon. He could not get or maintain service anywhere around his home... he had to drive across town and park in a parking lot and talk if he needed to use it. He exchaged the phones, did the tower upgrades, and everything else the Verizon people could suggest. Verizon couldnt solve the problem, and then basically told him "Well, you have had the phone past the deadline to give it up" since they kept stringing him along with "fixes" to correct the problem that didnt work. He then refused to pay for the service and Verizon nailed his credit for not paying 800+ bucks for the remainder of the contract.

Sure, he broke the contract, but IMO, Verizon defaulted first by not providing him a usable service... so yeah, maybe he "did it to himself" but how many of you would pay for a sevice month after month you didnt recieve?

 

[arnisador]

There's an implied warrant of merchantability...wonder if he could prevail at court?

 

[mrhnau]

you will often find that some studios that require contracts possess intentions of legal recourse against you should you falter on your end and breach the contract. there are instances where new students sign up initially for the haul, not having a problem with doing so under contractual terms, only later bailing out after a few lessons. in this instance, the studio owner could seek judgment against you in civil court, hence damaging your credit. this is only one possible reason for needing an SSN.

I chatted with him last night. It turns out that a collection agency is used if I default or something. I came up with an idea though (which I'm fortunate enough to be able to do at the time). The contract is for 6 months. He will not allow me to pay the cheaper price if I don't give him my SSN and DL#, and I'm refusing to give it. Think this would be a reasonable compromise? I've already paid one month, so I could theoretically pay for the next five this month too. This way, there is no chance for a collection agency or anything of that nature.

I could be really rude about this too... if I give him the 5 months, there are opportunities to break the contract. Specifically, if I move more than 15 miles away, or he moves the location of the training more than 5 miles away, the contract can be terminated. I'm not moving, and I have a feeling he won't be moving. Regardless, in order to protect myself if I give him 5 months at once, I could ask for his SSN and DL# :whip:

Anyways... I'm just upset about it. I'm always in favor of privacy. He says he won't do anything with the information, but thats not the point. I'm sure anyone would say that. To me, its a matter of trust. I'm not some high school kid that might misbehave and not get anymore allowance from mom and pop. Anyways... think I'm blowing this out of proportion?

MrH

 

[shesulsa]

I don't think so. I just wouldn't train there or take the financial hit.

 

[arnisador]

I think you're right to be unhappy. Do gyms ask for SSNs these days when you get a gym membership? If not, he shouldn't be either.

It doesn't sound right to me. Bear in mind that the instructor may be doing what some company's salesperson told him to do when he insists on getting the info., so perhaps the instructor doesn't fully understand the issue either.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

I was asked for my SSN when I signed up at a local gym. When I balked at giving it out, they said "well, make one up then.". Ok, I can do that.

 

[arnisador]

OK, that's news to me...is that even legal? I suppose they can ask for it, just not require it? Do they consider it to be an application for credit?