Pressure points?

Dirty Dog

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Yeah, to me the most questionable part is moving the head back with the pressure points under the cheekbones. Those hurt if you're standing still so they can get good pressure on them. I highly doubt they're much accessible in the chaos of an actual fight, nor do I think most people in a fight would give in to the pain without doing something in response.
There's some possibility of the pressure point working, but there's also an ingrained reflex effort to protect the eye which has a decent chance of convincing them to move their head back even if it doesn't hurt at all.
 

seasoned

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Yeah, to me the most questionable part is moving the head back with the pressure points under the cheekbones. Those hurt if you're standing still so they can get good pressure on them. I highly doubt they're much accessible in the chaos of an actual fight, nor do I think most people in a fight would give in to the pain without doing something in response.
The deciding factor in the head going back was the palm to the nose while the thumb and finger only positioned the neck for the final knock out with the downward palm strike. Check out the video again and let me know if you see the final jaw strike........
 

Koryuhoka

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It does not apply to the fight dynamics at all.
Kyusho is not fighting. It is the art or skill, of locating and manipulating the points of the meridians of the body, according to the "destructive cycle" in Traditional Chinese Medicine. The hand/leg positions and the body mechanics that kata teach you, are road maps to the locations and placement of the defending techniques. But since practically everyone believes kata are useless, posts like this are useless.
 

Unkogami

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Pressure points work. Except when they don't. And they're inherently difficult to use under pressure when both parties are in motion.
People who watch too many movies think pressure points are intended to disable an opponent with a little touch or some such ********. Used in a real confrontation, they are intended to elicit a predictable reaction that can be followed by effective next steps.
 

Koryuhoka

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The understanding of the location of the points, gives you the ability to set up the attacker to expose the points and make them vulnerable. Is it not practice that makes one skillful?

When you learn the science of kyusho, you become familiar with what reactions you are going to get when certain dynamics are applied. Tuidijutsu, Tenshin, and other dynamics have to be applied for the skill to be effective. It is the compounding of dynamics that gives one the desired results.

Of course there are variables. We are talking about real life. But there is a science behind the successful application of kyusho.
 

isshinryuronin

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Kyusho is not fighting. It is the art or skill, of locating and manipulating the points of the meridians of the body, according to the "destructive cycle" in Traditional Chinese Medicine. The hand/leg positions and the body mechanics that kata teach you, are road maps to the locations and placement of the defending techniques. But since practically everyone believes kata are useless, posts like this are useless.
Right. Kyusho/Qin-na and so on are skill sets, not styles unto themselves. Their techniques are used within the context of a compatible style (one whose movements are designed to facilitate their application.) Pressure point skills cannot be used by themselves (unless the opponent is a sitting duck.) A bullet is not useful or efficacious by itself - it needs a firearm, a delivery system. The particular martial art style is the delivery system for kyushu.

Before an effective pressure point or joint lock attack can be applied, the user (and opponent) must be in position and the opponent must usually be weakened, distracted, injured, or immobilized to some extent. The style provides the method by which this is accomplished. This method, as Koryuhoka states, is illustrated in the style's kata - whether or not the practitioner or observer recognizes this is another matter. This is where kuden (oral transmission) comes in as these skills were closely guarded in Okinawa and not clearly shown in kata.

Since many pressure points are protected by muscle, bone or tendon, the opponent must be manipulated so as to "open up" these areas, exposing their vulnerability. This is why it is important that kata be performed as originally intended, and with proper form. Going off track here will render the following subtle pressure point/joint lock attack (as well as takedowns, throws and other good stuff) to be ineffective. But many sensei/students do not even know this stuff is built into many traditional kata.

One doesn't need kyushu (forget about the magical BS seen on you tube) or joint attacks to be a good fighter, but they can certainly give a 5% boost (potentially much more) to the effectiveness of one's abilities. And, when chance delivers the opponent in perfect position for one of these techniques to be applied, it will be a much enjoyed gift.
 

dvcochran

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My observation of the video shows the left hand of the defender controlling the right arm of the attacker while palm striking the face with his right hand. As the attackers head rocks back the defender places his thumb and finger under the cheek bones pushing the attackers head back further while striking the jaw with a downward palm strike.............the question was do pressure points work, yes under certain situations. In this case a hard hit on a downward angle to the jaw disrupting nerves in the jaw hinge and thus shutting down the brain.
Not really my cup of tea, just my 2 cents....
Rocking the medulla oblongata. Works every time.
 

dvcochran

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Yeah, to me the most questionable part is moving the head back with the pressure points under the cheekbones. Those hurt if you're standing still so they can get good pressure on them. I highly doubt they're much accessible in the chaos of an actual fight, nor do I think most people in a fight would give in to the pain without doing something in response.
In my experience the pressure points on and around the head only work well when the head it trapped in somewhat of a static position, like being pinned on the floor. When the head can move away from the pressure it is much harder to keep them effective.
 

Koryuhoka

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Right. Kyusho/Qin-na and so on are skill sets, not styles unto themselves. Their techniques are used within the context of a compatible style (one whose movements are designed to facilitate their application.) Pressure point skills cannot be used by themselves (unless the opponent is a sitting duck.) A bullet is not useful or efficacious by itself - it needs a firearm, a delivery system. The particular martial art style is the delivery system for kyushu.

Before an effective pressure point or joint lock attack can be applied, the user (and opponent) must be in position and the opponent must usually be weakened, distracted, injured, or immobilized to some extent. The style provides the method by which this is accomplished. This method, as Koryuhoka states, is illustrated in the style's kata - whether or not the practitioner or observer recognizes this is another matter. This is where kuden (oral transmission) comes in as these skills were closely guarded in Okinawa and not clearly shown in kata.

Since many pressure points are protected by muscle, bone or tendon, the opponent must be manipulated so as to "open up" these areas, exposing their vulnerability. This is why it is important that kata be performed as originally intended, and with proper form. Going off track here will render the following subtle pressure point/joint lock attack (as well as takedowns, throws and other good stuff) to be ineffective. But many sensei/students do not even know this stuff is built into many traditional kata.

One doesn't need kyushu (forget about the magical BS seen on you tube) or joint attacks to be a good fighter, but they can certainly give a 5% boost (potentially much more) to the effectiveness of one's abilities. And, when chance delivers the opponent in perfect position for one of these techniques to be applied, it will be a much enjoyed gift.
Abso-freaking-lutely.
 

Gerry Seymour

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The deciding factor in the head going back was the palm to the nose while the thumb and finger only positioned the neck for the final knock out with the downward palm strike. Check out the video again and let me know if you see the final jaw strike........
I did see that final strike. I'm not familiar with the principles behind compressing the jaw that way.
 

drop bear

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The deciding factor in the head going back was the palm to the nose while the thumb and finger only positioned the neck for the final knock out with the downward palm strike. Check out the video again and let me know if you see the final jaw strike........

The thing is if I can position your head how I want then sucker punch you. You will eat dirt.

Which isn't fighting. It's bullying.
 

Kung Fu Wang

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The thing is if I can position your head how I want then sucker punch you. You will eat dirt.

Which isn't fighting. It's bullying.
If you put left hand behind your opponent's neck, you can put your righthand on his face and smash the back of his head on the ground. IMO, this is the most brutal take down. You can crack your opponent's skull this way. It works no matter how big and strong your opponent may be.
 
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drop bear

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If you can put left hand behind your opponent's neck, youcan put your righthand on his face and smashthe back of his head o the ground. IMO, this is the most brutle take down, It works no matter how big ad howstrong your opponent may be.

Sounds ambitious.
 

Kung Fu Wang

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Sounds ambitious.
I have made this work (by surprise) many times againt big guys. Try it and see if it will work for you. If you put your right hand on your opponent's forehead, you will get even better leverage.

You are using your whole body power on your opponent's neck joint.

This is the only take down that I know that will work 100% (no matter how strong that your opponent may resist).
 
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drop bear

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I have made this work (by surprise) many times againt big guys. Try it and see if it will work for you. If you put your right hand on your opponent's forehead, you will get even better leverage.

You are using your whole body power on your opponent's neck joint.

This is the only take down that I know that will work 100% (no matter how strong that your opponent may resist).

Yeah. It is basically a crossface.

But 100% effective against big guys. Not so much.

So say the other guy is straight up garbage. Then you can pull something like that off.

 
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Kung Fu Wang

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Yeah. It is basically a crossface.

But 100% effective against big guys. Not so much.

So say the other guy is straight up garbage. Then you can pull something like that off.

The difference is his other hand is not behind his opponent's neck. Also he uses a circular motion instead of a straight back linear motion.

I like to use arm drag, when my body is on the side of my opponent, I will use it with my whole body weight behind it.

Of course I need to guide my opponent's leading arm under my right armpit so that arm won't give me trouble. I may also need to comb the hair and bounce his other arm away.
 
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Bill Mattocks

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Pressure points work. Except when they don't. And they're inherently difficult to use under pressure when both parties are in motion.
Also balance points and nerve clusters, although using balance points can eventually become easier to use against resistance. Takes a long time, in my limited experience.
 
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