Poor MT in MMA

zDom

Senior Master
Joined
Aug 21, 2006
Messages
3,081
Reaction score
107
I think the thing with is when it comes to going from boxing to MMA is that the stlye of fighting is changed, its not just the stance its also the fact that alot of thaiboxers and boxers dont expect to be able to land single shots in the ring, most shots that hit are set up in combos, ( if you can land single shots all the time then you are boxing below your level ).
In MMA combos are difficult because you are expected to be taken down, there are far to many things to think about when you are in striking range and as such fighters tend to strike out of range, hence why you se alot of lunging shots and mis timed blows.

I think you are right that is definately part of it.
 

Hand Sword

Grandmaster
Lifetime Supporting Member
MTS Alumni
Joined
Sep 22, 2004
Messages
6,545
Reaction score
61
Location
In the Void (Where still, this merciless GOD torme
Anderson silva to be fair has lost quite a few fights.

I think he is rated far to high because of his win over Rich Franklin.

True. Still proves my point though, doesn't it? Franklin was a high calibur MMA fighter, Leben was a "tough guy" MMA fighter. Both had the skills supposedly and Silva made them look stupid. My point was that he is correctly trained in the MT/Boxing execution and it shows when compared to those skills shown by most of the MMA fighters I've seen.
 

Andrew Green

Grandmaster
MTS Alumni
Joined
Aug 1, 2004
Messages
8,627
Reaction score
450
Location
Winnipeg MB
One thing about Silva. He is also a top level BJJ competitor. Neither Leben nor Franklin would have wanted to take him down, but rather stand and trade. A advantage on the ground changes the way you approach stand up fighting. With the other guy not wanting to take you down, you can get away with more.

A fairly clear example of this was the way COuture fought Sylvia. Had he been fighting someone that might put him on his back or throw kicks / knees I think he would have fought a different fight. But as he had such a huge advantage on the ground, Sylvia was unlikely to take him down, or start throwing kicks which would expose him to a takedown.
 

Hand Sword

Grandmaster
Lifetime Supporting Member
MTS Alumni
Joined
Sep 22, 2004
Messages
6,545
Reaction score
61
Location
In the Void (Where still, this merciless GOD torme
I agree with that. The point I was going for, with regard to how the conversation was going is that MMA'ers who were primarily strikers first execute their Boxing/MT better than the majority of MMAers who weren't but "train" in those areas, a lot supposedly.
 

thaistyle

Blue Belt
Joined
Oct 21, 2006
Messages
298
Reaction score
2
Location
OK
There haven't been too many fighters that have great muay thai skills when they claim to study muay thai. In my opinion, Wanderlei Silva and Yves Edwards have demonstrated some of the best muay thai technique in an mma fight. They have blended their muay thai well with their ground game. Their are so many fighters these days that lose focus on their stand up and concentrate too heavily on their ground game. They need to be ready for both.
 

thaistyle

Blue Belt
Joined
Oct 21, 2006
Messages
298
Reaction score
2
Location
OK
Some of the best muay thai I've seen in mma, has come from Wanderlei Silva, Duane Ludwig and Yves Edwards. They have definitely worked on their muay thai along with their ground game. Some fighters claim to have a muay thai background but can't stand up and fight to save their butt. Anderson Silva does have some good muay thai and yes he has some losses, but that doesn't mean his muay thai isn't good. Anderson Silva once belonged to the Chute Boxe team with Wanderlei Silva and Chute Boxe fighters are known for good muay thai skills.
 

darthcual

White Belt
Joined
Jul 5, 2007
Messages
17
Reaction score
0
Hi all. First post here. I think whoever said they dabble is dead on the money. We have ppl come and go in our school trying to pick up this piece and leave out that. It doesnt work that way. I try to explain to them. If you did BJJ for 3 months, how good would you be at it. Terrible is the answer for those who have taken one too many and are punch drunk. They dont get weeded out. Thats why we see them in the big name venues. Good example: Marvin Eastman gets knocked out by Travis Lutter!?!?!! This should not happen. Lutter is decisively a BJJ guy while Eastman claims Muay Thai/Kickboxing as his home. Their are those who have some pretty nice stand up, though. David Louasou, George St Pierre, Anderson Silva. These guys accel because they can do both so well. They are not encumbered by being one dementional. To the OP, yeah I cannot stand it when the announcer says something like, " This man is a Muay Thai Expert......etc." and then fails to show me anything remotely resembling MT. Everyone of those guys should be made to sit down and watch Buakow Pramuk and some Ramon Dekkers.
 

Odin

2nd Black Belt
Joined
Nov 16, 2005
Messages
858
Reaction score
8
Location
England
. Everyone of those guys should be made to sit down and watch Buakow Pramuk and some Ramon Dekkers.

The thing is they proberly are Muay thai experts..but unfortunately they are not in a muay thai compition.

Even Ramon Dekkers was made swift work of when he entered the cage, yet if it was a striaght thai boxing fight im sure it would have gone the other way.
 

darthcual

White Belt
Joined
Jul 5, 2007
Messages
17
Reaction score
0
The thing is they proberly are Muay thai experts..but unfortunately they are not in a muay thai compition.

Even Ramon Dekkers was made swift work of when he entered the cage, yet if it was a striaght thai boxing fight im sure it would have gone the other way.

Yeah well if you are not going to use it in the ring their is no point in training in it. Pete Spratt was able to make short work of a very Tough Robbie Lawler with some well placed leg kicks. If your not going to use it, I say, dont waste time with it in training. Unless you just want to see what it looks like so you can recognize when your opponent is using it on you. I agree with you whole heartedly on the "It not a Muay Thai fight". The rules play a major role in what can and cannot be accomplished. The problem lies when the fighter claims Muay Thai yet looks extremely sloppy or uses no stand up at all.
 

Odin

2nd Black Belt
Joined
Nov 16, 2005
Messages
858
Reaction score
8
Location
England
Yeah well if you are not going to use it in the ring their is no point in training in it. Pete Spratt was able to make short work of a very Tough Robbie Lawler with some well placed leg kicks. If your not going to use it, I say, dont waste time with it in training. Unless you just want to see what it looks like so you can recognize when your opponent is using it on you. I agree with you whole heartedly on the "It not a Muay Thai fight". The rules play a major role in what can and cannot be accomplished. The problem lies when the fighter claims Muay Thai yet looks extremely sloppy or uses no stand up at all.

I dont know, you see the thing with MMA is that he takes what it finds useful from other arts and incorporates it into MMA.

and there still is a lot of muay thai in mma!

For instance the Knees, clinch, legs kicks and elbows ( not to mention Mirko's head kick) are all very good tools to have inside a cage.

what needs to change though is the way you use muay thai.

Its like if you were in a street fight you wouldnt set up a five punch combo ending in a highkick, you would instead go for a more straight to the point approach.

You just have to adapt what you have learnt from Muay thai and apply it to the situation you are faced with.

That goes for any art I suppose.
 
OP
K

Kieran

Yellow Belt
Joined
Apr 10, 2007
Messages
58
Reaction score
0
Location
Arbroath, in Scotland
For instance the Knees, clinch, legs kicks and elbows ( not to mention Mirko's head kick) are all very good tools to have inside a cage.

This is what I mean. The things you outlined above are part of Muay Thai and are now part of MMA but the way in which they are executed are rarely the way a Nak Muay would throw/use them. I understand some thing have to change and the way you fight muay thai will not be the way you fight MMA but there are things which change that I do not understand. It may be because I don't have any grappling/wrestling experience so I don't know about takedowns etc.

For example, leg kicks:

This is one of my main bugbears, a leg kick is a leg kick, it requires a lot more than to just hit your opponent for it to be a "thai style kick" as most commentators say. I rarely see a properly exectuted thai leg kick.

http://allfc.co.uk/links.php?q=Roundhouse_kick

The text in that page demonstrates what I mean, but the picture looks more like an "MMA low kick" in that his hip isn't fully turned over, thus not getting full power out of his kick and not making full use of his momentum.
 

Hand Sword

Grandmaster
Lifetime Supporting Member
MTS Alumni
Joined
Sep 22, 2004
Messages
6,545
Reaction score
61
Location
In the Void (Where still, this merciless GOD torme
As I said before, most just "dabble" and focus more on the grappling aspect. That's where the MMA game is usually played. Those that come in as MT/Boxer people are the ones who do it properly. However, most of those types stick to their own styles, so far.
 

Odin

2nd Black Belt
Joined
Nov 16, 2005
Messages
858
Reaction score
8
Location
England
As I said before, most just "dabble" and focus more on the grappling aspect. That's where the MMA game is usually played. Those that come in as MT/Boxer people are the ones who do it properly. However, most of those types stick to their own styles, so far.

I disagree most people that train MMA ,train stand up as much as they do groundwork.

Those that come in to MMA from a straight striking background have to re-train they're stand up to compete so i wouldnt say it made them any better then those that dont.

look at the past couple of months...

Dan Henderson knocked out Wanderlie Silva

Rampage Jackson knocked out Chuck Liddell

Both are former wreastlers that have trained striking either yet both knocked out men that have been trained in a sole striking art from the begining.
 

MTguy

Yellow Belt
Joined
Jun 17, 2022
Messages
40
Reaction score
12
Location
Midwest USA
I hate it when commentators said this guy's Thai is good. It's like saying their American is good. Also 'thai kick'is like saying there is only one kick fighters use.

The biggest pet peeve I have is the lack of blocking of low kicks. It comes down to shin conditioning. Actually, the problem is shin conditiong. People say, oh you cannot block because you'lld get taken down. See how Aldo blocks and stands. He has no problem dealing with kicks and take downs and delivering damage back.
 
Top