Zepp
Master of Arts
A short article about a new study that I thought may be worth considering: http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tm...&e=1&u=/nm/20041227/hl_nm/suicide_religion_dc
Thoughts?
Thoughts?
People with religion less likely to commit suicide?
- Thread starter Zepp
- Start date
I think anyone attached to a community that upholds strong values about respecting/preserving life will hesitate or avoid suicidal acts - whether religious or philosophical in general.Zepp said:
This article sort of focused on personal growth aspects of religion/suicide issues, but there are factions/interpretations/sects of religions that encourage 'suicide' as long as it is for the betterment of the culture in some way:
Odinists/Viking types use to believe that dieing gloriously in battle was the only way to reach 'heaven/Valhalla.'
Current militant/terrorist groups that are religiously motivated (N.Ireland in relatively recent history/Muslim sects/Christian-anti abortionists...) that freely condone and celebrate suicidal acts that serve a purpose.
D
Deuce
Guest
This article doesn't surprise me. Many religions believe in some sort of an afterlife or reincarnation. It only makes sense that someone who is religious and believes in heaven and hell will not commit the sin of suicide and spend eternity in hell. Someone who thinks death is the ultimate end and has no religious affiliations believe there will be no consequences to themselves if they end their life. I think its one's belief of what happens when they die that is a big factor in suicide stats, which is also a big part of many religions.
T
TonyM.
Guest
Suicide-A permanent solution to a temporary problem. The ultimate overkill.
BruceCalkins
Blue Belt
More Murder and Suicide has been done in the name of Religion that any other way. That is why I try to keep an open mind. Maybe it's keeping me sane.
47MartialMan
Master of Arts
I was about to say the same. I couldnt open the article. But is one to suggest that people in religion will commit less suicide to me will seem like a born-again Christian. Although I have nothing against those.
heretic888
Senior Master
I can't access the article in question, but...
Even assuming its true, its nothing short of correlational data. Nothing more, nothing less. There are also studies indicating a significant positive correlation between traditional/conservative Christian beliefs and social prejudice (at least in America). Again, its just correlation.
The problem with correlational data is we don't know the source and the direction of the causation. It could be that religious beliefs foster a reluctance to commit suicide in individuals. Or, it could be that individuals already reluctant to commit suicide are attracted to religious ideologies. Or, it could be that a third unknown variable is the cause for both previously mentioned variables. We just don't know.
In the end, such studies are very intriguing. But, don't really tell us much.
Even assuming its true, its nothing short of correlational data. Nothing more, nothing less. There are also studies indicating a significant positive correlation between traditional/conservative Christian beliefs and social prejudice (at least in America). Again, its just correlation.
The problem with correlational data is we don't know the source and the direction of the causation. It could be that religious beliefs foster a reluctance to commit suicide in individuals. Or, it could be that individuals already reluctant to commit suicide are attracted to religious ideologies. Or, it could be that a third unknown variable is the cause for both previously mentioned variables. We just don't know.
In the end, such studies are very intriguing. But, don't really tell us much.
Loki
Black Belt
In the overwhelming majorities, except where we're talking cureless debilitating disease or something simlar, I agree.TonyM. said:
I can't access the article either, but it roughly makes sense to me. Most (if not all) religions are anti-suicide, so either you don't kill yourself because you're afraid too, or the religion inspires you and gives you purpose and thus gives you reason to keep living.
Atheists of both kinds (see my thread on the subject for definitions) and some agnostics have to give themselves a purpose and find inspiration in other things, some of which succeed and some of which don't. They also have nothing like hellfire deterring them from suicide.
So roughly, yeah, that makes sense, but doesn't actually give insight into anything, IMO.
heretic888
Senior Master
Loki said:
Exactly.
The problem is that any number of things can be "logical" or "make sense", while not necessarily being true (many movements in psychology began this way). When you lack definitive evidence supporting a cause one way or another, you're basically just left with speculation and some interesting correlations.
The problem is further confounded when things such as self-confirming biases get in the way of what "makes sense". This could very well be an explanation whose goal is to discredit the claims of certain atheists.
All we know for certain is that there's a relationship. The exact nature of said relationship is unknown.
heretic888
Senior Master
Bigshadow said:
Regarding the suicide question, I think Bruce may have been referring to the mass martyrdom in the name of "religion" (the early Christians of the Literalist school in Rome were famous for voluntarily becoming "martyrs") that has been perpetuated throughout history.
