Overrated

Gerry Seymour

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I think I proved my initial point. For some reason, everything has to be graded, everyone must have an opinion on who is the 'greatest' at anything. There is no method by which one can I say "I like X" without proclaiming and publically defending X being the GOAT.

Why? I still don't get it. I would ask who cares, but clearly everyone does, so my question instead is WHY does everyone care?

I find it boring and uninteresting in the extreme. What was the best Western? Who hit the hardest? Best QB? Best bass player? Best song? Not only do I not care, I don't understand why anyone does care.

And if you ask the question, all you get are more recitations of why blah blah blah is the best at blah blah blah.

None of you are that person, object, or service. You have zero vested interest in putting forward or defending the idea that they are the best at anything. You'll never get the rest of the world to agree with you, and you won't get paid for having and defending your proclamation. What's the point?

"But D0000d, Henry Q. Higgenbottom is the BEST llama groomer of ALL TIIIIIIIIIME! I will totally lose my schizzzzzz if you don't agree with me! I've got STATS, bro!"
I don't get it either, BIll. I'm not even good at favorites. When someone does one of those icebreaker exercises and asks something like, "What's your favorite restaurant?", I struggle. I don't have many absolute favorites - I just like the ones I like, and which I like more at a given moment probably depends what I crave. Some days, that might just be Waffle House cheese & eggs with raisin toast and hash browns (scattered, covered, chunked, and diced).
 

Steve

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I think I proved my initial point. For some reason, everything has to be graded, everyone must have an opinion on who is the 'greatest' at anything. There is no method by which one can I say "I like X" without proclaiming and publically defending X being the GOAT.

Why? I still don't get it. I would ask who cares, but clearly everyone does, so my question instead is WHY does everyone care?

I find it boring and uninteresting in the extreme. What was the best Western? Who hit the hardest? Best QB? Best bass player? Best song? Not only do I not care, I don't understand why anyone does care.

And if you ask the question, all you get are more recitations of why blah blah blah is the best at blah blah blah.

None of you are that person, object, or service. You have zero vested interest in putting forward or defending the idea that they are the best at anything. You'll never get the rest of the world to agree with you, and you won't get paid for having and defending your proclamation. What's the point?

"But D0000d, Henry Q. Higgenbottom is the BEST llama groomer of ALL TIIIIIIIIIME! I will totally lose my schizzzzzz if you don't agree with me! I've got STATS, bro!"

I thought the original point was invidious comparison. I still think so.
 

Tony Dismukes

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"But D0000d, Henry Q. Higgenbottom is the BEST llama groomer of ALL TIIIIIIIIIME! I will totally lose my schizzzzzz if you don't agree with me! I've got STATS, bro!"
Look, no one is saying that Higgenbottom isn't one of the best llama groomers in the current era, but you have to realize that he's working with modern technology. Of course his stats are higher when he uses high speed electric shears. But put him back in the 1920's using manual shears and you think he'd stand a chance in a groom-off against someone like Rufus T. Hornswoggler? Not a chance.
 

Xue Sheng

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Look, no one is saying that Higgenbottom isn't one of the best llama groomers in the current era, but you have to realize that he's working with modern technology. Of course his stats are higher when he uses high speed electric shears. But put him back in the 1920's using manual shears and you think he'd stand a chance in a groom-off against someone like Rufus T. Hornswoggler? Not a chance.
If for one second you do not believe they ALL pale in comparison to the late great Xiotencatl of the Andes Mountains in the 18 century...well then sir you have NO idea what Llama grooming is
 

Holmejr

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any modern Martial Artist against Motobe, Flamma or Shaka? Lee, Norris, Silva, you nameem? I dont think so

Who was better Jimi Hendrix or Phil Keaggy?
 

Buka

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A few of the best Martial Fighters Ive ever trained with, worked out and sparred with Bruce Lee on many occasions. Many.

They all said the same thing, That man can fight. Any kind of fighting you pick, any rules, he can flat out fight.

But what would they know? They never read about him in magazines or on forums.
 

Hot Lunch

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A few of the best Martial Fighters Ive ever trained with, worked out and sparred with Bruce Lee on many occasions. Many.

They all said the same thing, That man can fight. Any kind of fighting you pick, any rules, he can flat out fight.

But what would they know? They never read about him in magazines or on forums.

Those of us who see this are only going to read "I know a guy who knows a guy," but I think you already know that.

But, to be fair, what they're saying of Bruce Lee isn't superlative. There are many people we know personally that we can say that about.
 

isshinryuronin

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A few of the best Martial Fighters Ive ever trained with, worked out and sparred with Bruce Lee on many occasions. Many.

They all said the same thing, That man can fight. Any kind of fighting you pick, any rules, he can flat out fight.
I have no doubt he was an outstanding martial artist as well as a formidable fighter. Speed, conditioning, cocky confidence, drive and a thirst for knowledge in his craft - he had it.

I met him one time in '68 or '69, before his superstar status. He had an intensity that was noticeable, a force of nature.
 

Xue Sheng

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Those of us who see this are only going to read "I know a guy who knows a guy," but I think you already know that.

But, to be fair, what they're saying of Bruce Lee isn't superlative. There are many people we know personally that we can say that about.
I didn't read it that way at all....
@Buka knew a lot of these guys and knows what he is talking about... but you can take it for what is worth
 

Hot Lunch

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I didn't read it that way at all....
You're too close to him to read it that way.

@Buka knew a lot of these guys and knows what he is talking about... but you can take it for what is worth
This is more "I know a guy who knows a guy."

Imagine me saying "Yes, Michael Jackson was attracted to adult women. I have a friend who was at the Neverland Ranch that had to listen to Michael and his lady friend over in the next room banging the headboard against the wall."

Is that really going to convince you? If you believe that he was attracted to adult women, odds are that you would've believed that long before I gave a second-hand anecdote.
 
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Hot Lunch

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you do realize those to statements are contradictory right?
Nope. In fact, one actually supports the other.

First, you being close to Buka means that you're not going to dismiss what he's saying as "I know a guy who knows a guy," like other people might.

Secondly, you added yourself to the chain of "I know a guy who knows a guy." You just turned it into "I know a guy who knows a guy who knows a guy."
 

Xue Sheng

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Nope. In fact, one actually supports the other.

First, you being close to Buka means that you're not going to dismiss what he's saying as "I know a guy who knows a guy," like other people might.

Secondly, you added yourself to the chain of "I know a guy who knows a guy." You just turned it into "I know a guy who knows a guy who knows a guy."
0925add5aded09f5e288719e9954a439_w200.webp
 

Hot Lunch

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0925add5aded09f5e288719e9954a439_w200.webp
0925add5aded09f5e288719e9954a439_w200.webp
Look, there's no need to bow out with a gif.

I'm not telling Buka that I think he's lying. What I am doing is pointing out how that's going to come across, and acknowledging that he already knows this.

If I myself were to give a second-hand account of an interaction that a friend of mine had with celebrity, I'd know fully well how it's going to be received before I even give it. That's all I'm saying.
 

Xue Sheng

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Look, there's no need to bow out with a gif.

I'm not telling Buka that I think he's lying. What I am doing is pointing out how that's going to come across, and acknowledging that he already knows this.

If I myself were to give a second-hand account of an interaction that a friend of mine had with celebrity, I'd know fully well how it's going to be received before I even give it. That's all I'm saying.
bowing out...nope.... tried to make light of it and leave it alone.....just no longer interested in pursuing whatever the point you are trying to make is.... thought the best way would be a gif to make light of it...but since you are not allowing that.... to be honest, don't much care what you are saying here, you are talking about it from your POV and projecting it onto everybody.... not exactly realistic.... so to put an end to this

now I'm bowing out with a gif... and it is a way to do it...later y'all

49810eb73f7bd6d9420dce48198e15aa.gif
 

Buka

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Those of us who see this are only going to read "I know a guy who knows a guy," but I think you already know that.

But, to be fair, what they're saying of Bruce Lee isn't superlative. There are many people we know personally that we can say that about.
Youre right, there are.

All good points. And, again, youre right, it is a I know a guy who knows a guy opinion.

But it depends on the guy, how well you know the guy, and if said guy is in any way, shape or form competent in Martial Arts.

For instance, Wally Jay was well known Martial Artist. I spent some time training with Wally. A week here, couple weeks there, few more over there, been to week long camps, seminars, been to one of his birthday parties, blah blah blah.

Knew Wallys wife, Bernice, too. She was also a very good Martial Artist. One day I was talking with her and I asked her about Bruce Lee.

She said (I paraphrase) He was a nice boy, but, oh, what a mess he used to make at the house. Him and Wally.

Wally Jay had a nice gym in his basement. Mats, bags, fighting stuff.

Bernice continued to say, But when Bruce would come over, would they go downstairs? Oh no, they would work out right there in my living room.

Then she digs through her bag, grabs her purse, takes out her wallet and gets out a black and white photo.

Its in her living room. Theres Wally and Bruce, soaking wet with sweat, smiling. The couch and chairs are pushed against the walls, the rug is shoved into a doorway, coffee table is tipped over, a lamp is broken, two others are tipped over on the floor, the pictures on the wall are crooked, one of them has a cracked glass.

Bernice said, I told them, neither one of you eat or leave until you clean this mess up. Then she told me that a few weeks later she came home and could hear crashing in her living room as she got out of her car in the driveway. Because they were at it again.

That was probably the coolest photo Ive ever seen concerning the arts.

Wally told me, Bruce was one hell of a good fighter. Im glad he had good control.

Another I know a guy who knows a guystory.
Joe Lewis was one of my instructors. Scary strong man. Im used to strong people, but he was another level strong. He was also extremely articulate.

When he would come to New England, he would stay at my house on occasion, we had a guest room.

Wed stay up most of the night talking chop. (A term from my neighborhood meaning talking about fighting)

I asked him more than a few times about Bruce Lee. Joe didnt like him at first. But after working out with him they got along. Joe told me, He was a strong little man. Much stronger than youd anticipate. And he was very fast. Faster than I was. (Joe, despite being a heavyweight, was the fastest Martial Artist Ive ever worked out with. Maybe ever seen. Damn, brother, he could close distance SO fast, and kick and punch even faster.

Joe told me, Bruce could take a shot as well. And he hit hard. He could flat out fight. Anyone who says he couldnt, never worked out with him. They obviously never sparred with him.

Anyway, thats part of the story and Im sticking to it.
 

Buka

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I have no doubt he was an outstanding martial artist as well as a formidable fighter. Speed, conditioning, cocky confidence, drive and a thirst for knowledge in his craft - he had it.

I met him one time in '68 or '69, before his superstar status. He had an intensity that was noticeable, a force of nature.
Oh, man, thats so cool. I so wish I had met him. I would have loved to have met him.
It always sucks when someone you KNOW youre going to eventually meet, dies.
 

Monkey Turned Wolf

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Nope. In fact, one actually supports the other.

First, you being close to Buka means that you're not going to dismiss what he's saying as "I know a guy who knows a guy," like other people might.

Secondly, you added yourself to the chain of "I know a guy who knows a guy." You just turned it into "I know a guy who knows a guy who knows a guy."
That logic only makes sense if buka says "I know a guy who knows a guy". If he says "I know a guy that does x", then being close to him, and trusting him regardless of your own bias, is different.
 

Buka

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What are you guys doing being up so late?

Im retired on Maui smoking fatties, whats your excuse?

I kid, I kid. I love it!
 
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