Here is the clip!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GojZt...%20vs.%20ortiz
Brian R. VanCise
www.instinctiveresponsetraining.com
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GojZt...%20vs.%20ortiz
Brian R. VanCise
www.instinctiveresponsetraining.com
Ortize vs. Shamrock youtube!
- Thread starter Brian R. VanCise
- Start date
Cruentus
Grandmaster
Just as I suspected...thanks for posting that Brian (I was at a wedding so I missed it last night).
OP
- Thread Starter
- #3
Hey Paul,
I missed it to so the first thing I did this morning was youtube for it!
Yes, the fight went just a suspected. I think if this does not retire
Shamrock then he may end up just like Rocky Balboa of movie fame.
The younger guys are really taking it to the UFC legends. (Royce, Shamrock) However, that is to be expected in a sport.
Brian R. VanCise
www.instinctiveresponsetraining.com
I missed it to so the first thing I did this morning was youtube for it!
Yes, the fight went just a suspected. I think if this does not retire
Shamrock then he may end up just like Rocky Balboa of movie fame.
The younger guys are really taking it to the UFC legends. (Royce, Shamrock) However, that is to be expected in a sport.
Brian R. VanCise
www.instinctiveresponsetraining.com
Did anyone think the ref stopped the fight to quickly?
Cruentus
Grandmaster
Brian R. VanCise said:
Absolutely. The majority of the people don't realize that you can't put your head and body through that kind of punishment forever.
upnorthkyosa said:
I have a friend who always says that every fight is ended too fast by the refs. Even when there is a crack and everyone else knows the guy is knocked out but him.
On the close one, every replay with other camera angles shows that the ref knew what he was doing and the guy was out.
I remember some of the first UFC's where a guy was out and there was a guy elbowing the guy out. He stopped and looked at the ref. The ref did nothing. The guys gave him another elbow and looked again. Nothing by the ref. Another couple of elbows another look, nothing. So the fighter just unloaded and then the ref finally stopped it.
Everyone was upset that the other fighter had to stop numerous times and look at the ref to see if he would call it.
And yes this went pretty much as I expected, I had hoped the Ken could have brought more game though.
OP
- Thread Starter
- #7
Tulisan said:
Yep and Shamrock has taken several beat downs lately. His skills were superb against the old breed that did not have a good ground game but now he is being overmatched by people that have learned the ground game and are excelling at it.
I do not think that the ref stopped it to early. Actually all he did was keep Shamrock from receiving three or five more wicked elbows and punches. From a perspective of someone watching it might have been nice to let it go a little longer to see if he could survive the barage. However, from the fighter's safety perspective I think the referee stopped it appropriately.
Brian R. VanCise
www.instinctiveresponsetraining.com
The first two elbows landed bad, then Shamrock kinda moved a little out of the way, they still where landing but not as bad. The fight was stopped early, Shamrock wasn't even dazed when he jumped up looking for more. Even COuture said "I'm not sure why HErb Dean stopped this" at first. Liddell looked pretty annoyed with it as well.
Even Tito knows it was a poor decission and is looking to do it again. http://www.ufc.com/index.cfm?fa=MultiMedia.Detail&gid=2919 - post fight interview, he's calling for a Shamrock vs Ortiz 3 in November.
Guys have taken a lot more shots then that and managed to come back. Especiallly given that this was a co-main event and a grudge match it was stopped early. Would letting it go longer have changed who won? Probably not, but it still should have been done.
Even Tito knows it was a poor decission and is looking to do it again. http://www.ufc.com/index.cfm?fa=MultiMedia.Detail&gid=2919 - post fight interview, he's calling for a Shamrock vs Ortiz 3 in November.
Guys have taken a lot more shots then that and managed to come back. Especiallly given that this was a co-main event and a grudge match it was stopped early. Would letting it go longer have changed who won? Probably not, but it still should have been done.
OP
- Thread Starter
- #9
However, if there is a third one I have no interest in watching another beat down on Shamrock. Nor would I pay for it.
Brian R. VanCise
www.instinctiveresponsetraining.com
Brian R. VanCise
www.instinctiveresponsetraining.com
Sapper6
3rd Black Belt
Andrew Green said:
agreed.
these fighters are professionals. they should be treated as such. early ref stoppage is the primary reason i don't buy the fights myself, and they certainly know how to spoil an evening.
shamrock was moving. he wasn't out.
part of me thinks that crap like that (and other early stoppages) happen for a reason. if the UFC doesn't want you to win, they'll just call it as soon as you start taking some shots. BS in IMHO.
Usually I agree with ref stoppages, they are neccessary in MMA. It's not like boxing where if you are hurt bad you fall down, here you are already down. Back to the old UFC's there where some really bad beatings that should have been stopped. Scott Morris, that Wing Chun guy...
But Shamrock has taken far worse, and this was a poor stoppage. And esspecially after the Sakuraba fight in Pride you think they'd be a little careful on stopping a fight when Ken gets hit a couple times.
But Shamrock has taken far worse, and this was a poor stoppage. And esspecially after the Sakuraba fight in Pride you think they'd be a little careful on stopping a fight when Ken gets hit a couple times.
cfr
Black Belt
I think it was a good stop. Elbow after elbow, and Shamrocks hands were not blocking his face at all. Had his hands been anywhere near his face, Id have thought it was too soon.
Much as I hate to see any UFC fight become nothing more than a brawl I think that given the bad blood between these two perhaps Herb should have let it continue for awhile. Yeah, I think Herb was doing a good job as a ref but these two guys are just gonna continue this drama ad nauseum until Ken is beaten unconscious. Either have a third fight that ends with no doubt of victory or make a point of announcing that the drama between them needs to stop in order to allow the UFC to get on with the business of MMA and away from the WWE antics of a couple of children.
After watching it there on youtube a few 6 times or so I think Mr. Dean stopped it too quickly.
cfr
Black Belt
Ironically, I think Herb Dean stops a lot of fights too early, and I thought it was too early in this fight as well when I first saw it. But then, watching it several times in slow motion, my opinion changed. When being played in slow mo, you see that Ken is just getting pummled, and his hands are not near his face.
Cruentus
Grandmaster
jstreet said:
I agree. The fight was stopped too early in my opinion, but only by about 5 seconds or so. You don't want to wrecklessly risk the fighters safety, but you want to leave no question in peoples minds as too who won or lost either. With that fight stoppage, people could try to argue that Shamrock could have turned it around.
I don't think so, though, and think that the results would have been the same regardless.
i agree with those above the fight was stopped to early but only by a few seconds.
Shamrock was not defnding himslef and was getting his gead beat in. The floor and iron rings of the octagon are not the place to do a rope a dope
Shamrock was not defnding himslef and was getting his gead beat in. The floor and iron rings of the octagon are not the place to do a rope a dope
Like Tito said, Ken went limp & wasn't defending himself. It was a good stop. Ken is 42 years old not 22. Bottom line is if the fight would have continued Ken probably would have been seriously injured. Ken is probably one of the toughest fighters in the world & he would never quit, so I think that Herb Dean did him a favor, even though he may have stepped in a blow or two early. I think that it was a good stop.
I felt before the fight that Shamrock had no chance, but even I still believe that stoppage was premature.jstreet said:
