One bit of advice I always disliked when hearing from self-defense instructors is to run away at the first sign of trouble.

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NOW you did, because it's convenient for your argument.
So your response to someone telling you something they've done is to accuse them of lying about those actions. Denial. It's not just a river in Egypt.
You really cannot bear the possibility that you might be wrong about anything, can you? I sure the psychologists of the world have a name for that sort of pathology, but I can't think what it is.
 
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Probably true of some. Part of my own personal criteria for running is that doing so doesn't simply move the threat to some other innocent.
And that's why I hate when people say to just run away cause it could mean so many things. And sometimes running just isn't an option, what are you gonna do beg for your life?

This is something I will stand firm on. Don't waste time learning how to fight if you're not prepared and willing to do so.
 

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And that's why I hate when people say to just run away cause it could mean so many things.
Any time someone tries to reduce a complex, volatile situation to a single solution, there's a good chance they're speaking from ignorance.
And sometimes running just isn't an option, what are you gonna do beg for your life?
Sure, under certain circumstances. Begging is still alive. Staying alive means you're opening up options. Options are good things.
 
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Any time someone tries to reduce a complex, volatile situation to a single solution, there's a good chance they're speaking from ignorance.

Sure, under certain circumstances. Begging is still alive. Staying alive means you're opening up options. Options are good things.
That's assuming your attacker has any intention of letting you go. And let's bring women into this (to any ladies here I apologize in advance but this point needs to be made)

So you have a woman confronted by a man who wants to..."force himself onto her" circumstances beyond her control put her in this situation and she has no way of just running except past this guy.

By your own logic and stance on the matter, the best thing she could do is to just let the man do what he wants and hope he lets her go when he's done.

But you tell any woman that and she'll look at you like you lost your damn mind.
 
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gyoja

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I guess that we can further define terms; such as retreat vs retrograde.
Retreat: an act of moving back or withdrawing.

Retrograde: Doctrinally, a retrograde involves. organized movement away from the enemy. A transitional operation, the retrograde defense.
 
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I guess that we can further define terms; such as retreat vs retrograde.
Retreat: an act of moving back or withdrawing.

Retrograde: Doctrinally, a retrograde involves. organized movement away from the enemy. A transitional operation, the retrograde defense.
I definitely like retrograde better keeping a hostile person at arms length is never a bad idea. In fact I believe a lot of fighting styles are centered around a retrograde mentality.
 

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That's assuming your attacker has any intention of letting you go. And let's bring women into this (to any ladies here I apologize in advance but this point needs to be made)

So you have a woman confronted by a man who wants to..."force himself onto her" circumstances beyond her control put her in this situation and she has no way of just running except past this guy.

By your own logic and stance on the matter, the best thing she could do is to just let the man do what he wants and hope he lets her go when he's done.
You completely lack the slightest understanding of my position, if you really think this is true. Let me say it again. I'll use small words.
When you CAN avoid a conflict, do. When you CANNOT, end the conflict as quickly as possible. Fair fights are for tournaments.
I have spent 50+ years training. I carry a knife. I carry a gun. My wife is a black belt. She also carries a gun. Of our 10 children, 5 of them carry on a regular basis, and all of them own guns. All of them have had some degree of empty hand training. Of our 17 grandkids, all of them who are old enough have been taught how to shoot. All of them who are old enough have had some degree of empty hand training.
Now, would you like to rethink the disgusting idea that I would ever suggest a person "just let [them] do what [they] want"?
But you tell any woman that and she'll look at you like you lost your damn mind.
I'm virtually looking at you that way right now, since you've grossly misrepresented my position.
I have not now, nor have I ever, not WILL I ever, endorse the position you are attributing to me. That should be clear to anyone who has read my statements.
 
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You completely lack the slightest understanding of my position, if you really think this is true. Let me say it again. I'll use small words.
When you CAN avoid a conflict, do. When you CANNOT, end the conflict as quickly as possible. Fair fights are for tournaments.
I have spent 50+ years training. I carry a knife. I carry a gun. My wife is a black belt. She also carries a gun. Of our 10 children, 5 of them carry on a regular basis, and all of them own guns. All of them have had some degree of empty hand training. Of our 17 grandkids, all of them who are old enough have been taught how to shoot. All of them who are old enough have had some degree of empty hand training.
Now, would you like to rethink the disgusting idea that I would ever suggest a person "just let [them] do what [they] want"?

I'm virtually looking at you that way right now, since you've grossly misrepresented my position.
I have not now, nor have I ever, not WILL I ever, endorse the position you are attributing to me. That should be clear to anyone who has read my statements.
And this is why clarification is important, thank you for doing so. But from what you are saying it sounds like when put in that situation, you're willing to a lot more then just fight back.

Scary.
 
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Kung Fu Wang

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When you CAN avoid a conflict, do. When you CANNOT, end the conflict as quickly as possible. Fair fights are for tournaments.
Agree with you 100% there. This can be the most logical way of thinking that I have not seen in this forum for quite some time.

Many years ago, I got into a street fight in NYC. I ended the conflict as quickly as possible. (A guy tried to rob me. I had $47 in my pocket. I didn't want to lose that money. I jumped in, attacked, and broke the guy's leg). Next day I was on the Greyhound bus to Houston. I did run away after the fight.
 
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Dirty Dog

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And this is why clarification is important, thank you for doing so. But from what you are saying it sounds like when put in that situation, you're willing to a lot more then just fight back.
The phrase "fight back" includes anything from calling you names to emptying a magazine or two into your body.
I'm not scary. I am a pacifist. I don't like violence at all. But if there MUST be violence, I don't intend to be the one saying "ouch" after.
 
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The phrase "fight back" includes anything from calling you names to emptying a magazine or two into your body.

I'm not scary. I am a pacifist. I don't like violence at all. But if there MUST be violence, I don't intend to be the one saying "ouch" after.
I know someone like that too. Hates fighting to a fault, but when he has to he's like a completely different person. There's an amusing irony in knowing the ones who hate violence the most tend to be the ones capable of being the most ruthless.
 

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There's an amusing irony in knowing the ones who hate violence the most tend to be the ones capable of being the most ruthless.
If you've actually been around real violence and DON'T hate it, there is something badly wrong with you.

As Ive said before, its always better to have it and not need it, than to need it and not have it.
Of course. I've used my martial arts skills uncountable times. I've cut lots of people, but that was therapeutic. Putting in a chest tube or what have you. I've never needed to shoot anybody.
 

gyoja

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Next day I was on the Greyhound bus to Houston.

Family there?
 
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If you've actually been around real violence and DON'T hate it, there is something badly wrong with you.
Oh I recognize it can get incredibly messy. But I also recognize that for some people it's the only language they understand and it simply can't be helped.

It's part of the reason why I've been studying fighting styles like outboxing, hapkido and destreza, because I have to imagine it's real easy to lose yourself in the moment.

It's more of an "It is what it is" mentality.
 
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