Odd one out?

championmarius

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I have a conundrum. I have studied Tracy's Kenpo under Kudan Ernest McPeek for several years. I moved on after reaching Ikkyu (first brown).
Looking through the boards here, I see several discussions of techniques, yet the technique described does not match up with what I know...

Take for example this discussion of Leveling the Clouds. The Leveling the Clouds we were taught has the same step and block, but then we skip right to the elbow break, then switch hands, step back pulling into a left elbow to the face...

I don't remember there being a A, B, C, or what-have-you.

So I guess the question is, how much local variation is there allowed in curriculum? Does a school operator maybe get to set their preference for what variation is taught as the baseline? or perhaps even outright change entire techniques?

I have nothing but respect and distinction for what I have been taught, I was just wondering whether this is common, or I am on the outside looking in?
 

Imua Kuntao

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Master Tracy does things the old way and then may have changed them alittle, Master Parker changed things to fit his own idea of what kenpo should be after he created it. I cannot speak for either men and I may be wrong, I studied kenpo from several differnet instructors and a close friend of mine. The names might even be the same but the technique might not be.
 
OP
championmarius

championmarius

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Granted, but I feel like I am on the outside looking in on Tracy's Kenpo. I have spoken with Parker guys, even had a discussion with a guy from EPAKS, and my knowledge doesn't jive there either.

It just strikes me as odd, that what I (confidently) know as Kenpo, is radically different at times from what seems to be the rest of the worlds definition of Tracy's Kenpo. I also feel doubly out of sorts, because we are only taught 20 out of each belt group, the other ten don't show up until well after shodan. I managed to peice together a great deal of them, but it still remains (AFAIK) absent from our curriculum.

A quick (maybe not) example is the Orange belt material:
Canon list:
1. Attacking Circle
2. Sumo
3. Japanese Strangle Hold
4. Blocking the Kick
5. Headlock
6. Crash of the Eagle
7. Grasping Talon
8. Tackle techniques
9. Dancer
10. Opponent at Sides
11. Passing the Horizon
12. Kimono Grab
13. Lever
14. Crashing Elbow
15. Heel Hook
16. Bridge
17. Eagles Beak
18. Front Bearhug
19. Scimitar
20. Breaking the Cross
21. Aiming the Spear
22. Raising the Staff
23. Lowering the Gate
24. Rocking Elbow
25. Reverse Hammerlock
26. Anvil
27. Knee lift
28. Crane Leap
29. Driving Elbows
30. Crossing Guard
And the curriculum we learned:
1. Sumo
2. Japanese Strangle Hold
3. Headlock
4. Crash of the Eagle
5. Grasping Talon
6. Dancer
7. Opponent at sides
8. Passing the Horizon
9. Kimono Grab
10. Lever
11. Crashing Elbow
12. Bridge/Breaking the Cross (taught as one technique with two variations)
13. Front Bear Hug
14. Rocking Elbow
15. Anvil
16. Knee Lift
17. Crane Leap
18. Driving Elbows
19. Crossing Guard
20. Aiming the Spear
And it seems like the way we were shown a great deal of techniques differs greatly from what I can find online,a nd in discussions here.....

SOMEONE HELP!!!!! I don't get it! why?
 

KenpoDave

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It just strikes me as odd, that what I (confidently) know as Kenpo, is radically different at times from what seems to be the rest of the worlds definition of Tracy's Kenpo. I also feel doubly out of sorts, because we are only taught 20 out of each belt group, the other ten don't show up until well after shodan.

There have been changes to the order of and number of techniques taught in each belt of the Tracy System over the years. I believe the last time was around 1985.

If Mr. McPeek is a Kudan, he has been around for awhile and may not have adopted the most current curriculum.

What you confidently know as kenpo is kenpo. The techniques are simply tools that teach kenpo.

I wouldn't sweat it, and I would love to know what some of your "differences" are.
 

MJS

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I have a conundrum. I have studied Tracy's Kenpo under Kudan Ernest McPeek for several years. I moved on after reaching Ikkyu (first brown).
Looking through the boards here, I see several discussions of techniques, yet the technique described does not match up with what I know...

Take for example this discussion of Leveling the Clouds. The Leveling the Clouds we were taught has the same step and block, but then we skip right to the elbow break, then switch hands, step back pulling into a left elbow to the face...

I don't remember there being a A, B, C, or what-have-you.

So I guess the question is, how much local variation is there allowed in curriculum? Does a school operator maybe get to set their preference for what variation is taught as the baseline? or perhaps even outright change entire techniques?

I have nothing but respect and distinction for what I have been taught, I was just wondering whether this is common, or I am on the outside looking in?

I'm sure even with the Parker material, techniques are going to vary from teacher to teacher. As for the amount that is taught...there are some Parker schools that teach different amounts per each belt. In the end, it works itself out and all of the material is taught. :)
 

Sigung86

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Relax Dude. Stuff is just stuff. When I originally started in Tracy Karate, there were 40 techniques per belt. Then came the great chopping, where some techs went away, and some were turned into A,B,C... etc. variants.

Also, over the years there have been people, such as myself, who either went their own way, or were sent away for political, or profit reasons. Most of them went along and began to do their own things. There are many variations on the theme out there.

I don't really know where you are, but if you ever get to St. Louis, look up one of the Tracy schools, and you will find that most of the "franchise" schools are still using the ancient of days variants, and did not subscribe to the ca. 1985 change ups.

It's no biggy, really. As long as you feel comfortable or confident in protecting yourself and others, should the need arise, and you reflect the Kenpo/Tracy concepts, I sure wouldn't sweat the small stuff.

On the other hand, you can go to Al Tracy's website, and see about his home study course. That way you will be sure of getting the real deal, whatever that may be. :ubercool:
 

ackks10

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Granted, but I feel like I am on the outside looking in on Tracy's Kenpo. I have spoken with Parker guys, even had a discussion with a guy from EPAKS, and my knowledge doesn't jive there either.

It just strikes me as odd, that what I (confidently) know as Kenpo, is radically different at times from what seems to be the rest of the worlds definition of Tracy's Kenpo. I also feel doubly out of sorts, because we are only taught 20 out of each belt group, the other ten don't show up until well after shodan. I managed to peice together a great deal of them, but it still remains (AFAIK) absent from our curriculum.

A quick (maybe not) example is the Orange belt material:
Canon list:
And the curriculum we learned:
And it seems like the way we were shown a great deal of techniques differs greatly from what I can find online,a nd in discussions here.....

SOMEONE HELP!!!!! I don't get it! why?



don't worry about the tecq, let me ask you this,does your kenpo work????
well then,,as we say in New jersey "forgetaboutit":asian:

btw i had this conversation yesterday with Mark Shiffman,,hey
" know what you know,know why its so" ED Parker.:wavey:
 

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