NH Martial Arts Legislation = Consumer Protection or something else?

[Makalakumu]

http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/legislation/2006/hb1325.html

What do you think of this?

 

[OnlyAnEgg]

I'm no lawyer; but, this seems to be on the side of the consumer and rather strictly limits the McDojo. Legitimate schools should already follow such guidelines.

 

[Makalakumu]

I guess I'm wondering about the provisions that require the instructor to show proof of skill. What criteria will they base that off of?

 

[OnlyAnEgg]

I guess I'm wondering about the provisions that require the instructor to show proof of skill. What criteria will they base that off of?

I would imagine certification from his style's governing body or, in the case of one who has begun his own style, certification prior to it's creation.

That should be easy enough, you think? How many people work outside any type of organization?

 

[beau_safken]

Great...another place where the government believes they are helping. Some of the best people hold no rank and could give a damn if they ever held some certification. What are you gonna do, McDojo's are destroying the martial arts slowly....this is probably a sign of things to come.

 

[michaeledward]

I guess I'm wondering about the provisions that require the instructor to show proof of skill. What criteria will they base that off of?

I have just skimmed the bill. But this is the language I saw.

Martial arts schools shall be prohibited from making any misrepresentation . . . (a) Qualifications of staff.

​

I'll look more closely later to see where it demands 'proof of skill'.

As a New Hampshire resident, and practitioner, I am more curious about why this bill is being proposed. I may have to contact the legislators to ask. I imagine one of them has a vested interest.

 

[Kacey]

I have to wonder how such legislation (which I consider unnecessary for legitimate instructors, and expect will be ignored by McDojos) is going to be enforced; more, I have to wonder how it would affect persons such as myself, who instruct for a facility rather than running an independent school.

It also seems to me that such legislation is redundant, given other laws governing service organizations, as well as consumer protection laws. I have to wonder who proposed such legislation, and why.

 

[Dark]

I really don't know, it seems kind of tenetive. The thing that got me was the no non-profit religious or ethical groups. So they make it set in stone that you have only martial art schools and no youth groups that utilize martial arts as a way to improve a childs life. That kind of scares me...

 

[Kreth]

I would imagine certification from his style's governing body or, in the case of one who has begun his own style, certification prior to it's creation.

That should be easy enough, you think? How many people work outside any type of organization?

That's kind of nebulous. What about an organization like the Bujinkan that has no governing body in the US?
When this type of legislation was proposed before (in NJ, I believe) there was wording about a "board" which would approve instructors. I thought, "Oh great, so we'll have a board full of McDojo 'Sensei' turning down anything that doesn't fit their training regimen."

 

[Xue Sheng]

It sounds like a great way for the state to collect more money from anyone that wants to open a martial arts school.

And this from the "Live free or die" state

 

[Makalakumu]

How about the Bruce test...

Bring a 6'6" 250 lbs bouncer named Bruce and tell him to kick the candidate butt. If the stuff works, then you are certified...

Seriously, though, I think that this opens the door to completely legitimizing "soke councils" as legal governing bodies. Can you imagine?

 

[Dark]

It sounds like a great way for the state to collect more money from anyone that wants to open a martial arts school.

And this from the "Live free or die" state

No you can live for free but karate classes cost extra lol

 

[michaeledward]

And this from the "Live free or die" state

Well, let's point out first, that this is still proposed legislation, correct? Governor Lynch has not been submitted a bill, as of yet, right?

The New Hampshire House of Representatives is one of the largest legislative bodies in the world. With over 400 members, I am willing to bet that this Bill never reaches the governor. At least, not without some serious arm twisting and deal making.

Dark, if I read the bill correctly, non-profit organizations are exempt from the requirements of this bill.

P.S. - Two of the sponsors of this bill are from the community of Goffstown, NH. Doing a search on Martial Arts in Goffstown, we find a studio operated by Mark Lawrence, who is a firefighter in the nearby city of Manchester, NH. I am wondering if the studio operator, who works as a public servant, has solicited action by his local legislators?

Currently, the Commerce Committee has referred the bill for study. Which probably means it is going to die a quiet death ... which in turn means, that Martial Arts are treated the same as all other 'Health Clubs'.

http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/ie/billstatus/billdetailpwr.asp

 

[Xue Sheng]

Well, let's point out first, that this is still proposed legislation, correct? Governor Lynch has not been submitted a bill, as of yet, right?

These are rhetorical, right?

 

[still learning]

Hello, Looks like the reason for the propose bill? ..is because there were some problems from before regarding contracts and the teachers skills.?

Next will be requirements of proof of martial art skills...lets see if the government can come up with something that WORKS?

Proof: Lenght of time...someone gotta provide data (personal journal)
Belt color..is it black or just looks that way?
Show or Demo..kicking and punching skills?
Be able to break boards/brick/and sticks? ..can be broke someone arm or neck in place of boards and bricks and sticks
Witness provided for proof..someone who saw you train a few times?
Has more than one Gi?
Able to make sounds...like Bruce lee...can KI...loudly
100 push-up in one day...with only two resting times
Able to sit-up and stand-up
Throw a few people down...and around the room.
Know at least two armbars moves, one leg lock,one wrist lock
Two or more choke holds...to neck and other places?
Show at least one knife hand?.. finger poke (can choose any fingers)
Squat for at least two minutes..(NO chairs allow)
Must have at least one paying student for proof of being a PRO?
Tax forms (prefer latest ones for USA only)
If training weapons....show at least two forms/katas of each one.
Fighing is obtional...against two bullies provide by council.
Can you speak english? must know at least twelve words
Proof of legal Amercian
$1200 dollars at the door for the council mans...time

 

[Carol]

Health clubs enjoy certain distinctions under the law that other organizations do not...such as being able to restrict their memberships to only one gender (ie: Curves).

I didn't see anything about proof of skill.

The verbage restricts a misrepresentation of qualifications by the instructors. Belt rank is not the only qualification used by instructors. Some instructors promote their training history and/or lineage, such as Mike's instructor...who promotes his training with Mr. Huk Planas.

At other schools, I've seen nstructors promote their certifications as personal trainers, CPR instructors, or even Paramedics. Some instructors touch upon their military rank or accomplishments.

Other instructors promote their academic credentials and outside experience. Dr. Len Brassard (Fitchburg, MA) for example, promotes his educational degree (Ph.D.) and professional background (28 years as a behavioural psychologist). Professor Joe Shuras (Kajukenbo) promotes his nearly 30 years experience as a Milford (Mass) Policeman (hats off to you, Joe!)

And, there is quite a bit of verbage relating to fee structure.

I haven't dug in to the bill with an analytical eye, but I don't really see anything wrong with a bill that permits an MA facility to offer a longer term contract than a health club, nor do I see much of an issue with NH placing some rough limits on a fee structure. To say that an initiation payment cannot equal more than a month's payement or saying that a monthly payment cannot exceed more than 25% of an annual payment hardly seems like restrictive government to me. I also don't have a problem with a law that would get an instrcutor in trouble for lying about a college degree.

That's just me though. I'm not allowed to vote on their legislation.

 

[tshadowchaser]

Except as provided in paragraph IV, each martial arts school registering pursuant to this chapter shall post a surety bond in an amount of $50,000, or the equivalent in cash, marketable securities, letters of credit, or escrow accounts, with the department of justice

that plus the 100$ a year tore register would piy me out of bussiness if I was up there.

I call my school a club but I have an idea that if I was in NH it would fall under ther general statements of this law (if it comes about)

I have an idea that this is very politicly motavated and someone has a grudge against some one else involveing a child getting hurt somewhere.

personaly i want to know how they are to determine who is qualified to teach

 

[Carol]

Sheldon, you would be exempt if you met either one of these conditions:

IV. The department of justice shall exempt from the bonding requirement set forth in paragraph III any martial arts school that meets any of the following conditions:
(a) Provides the department of justice with a statement that the martial arts school only accepts membership fees on a monthly basis.
(b) Establishes to the satisfaction of the department of justice that its membership refund liability does not exceed $5,000.



Plus, I can't find anything that says the State of NH is determining who is qualified to teach.

What it does say is that qualifications must not be misreprented.

 

[tshadowchaser]

the martial arts school only accepts membership fees on a monthly basis.

LOL
I wish that they would even pay most of the time


I still think it will hurt some of the older schools ( like my instructors) and some of the people who want to start teaching but have little $$$

 

[Carol]

LOL
I wish that they would even pay most of the time


I still think it will hurt some of the older schools ( like my instructors) and some of the people who want to start teaching but have little $$$

In that case there should be no problem justifying to the NHDOJ that the refund liability does not exceed $5,000.