Newsweek lied, people died - or - 16 and counting.

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MisterMike

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Newsweek, here forward to be referred to as Newsweak, published a false newsitem that lead to riots, destruction of property and at least 16 deaths.

In light of this, it seems very probable that the anti-war movement and the left leaning media are in fact quite responsible for negative attitude and aggression towards our allies and troops around the world.

At this point, the White House is seeking more than a retraction from Newsweak (which still claims it did nothing wrong), but also to help repair damages that were done to the military's image.

So, do you think they did something wrong?
Are they responsible for more than a retraction?
 

Andrew Green

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Why not a link to the article and the dismissal?

I do know what you are talking about though, they published an article that stated that the Koran had been flushed down a toilet to scare hostages.

Further investigation revealed that they where not entirely sure it was at the camp they said it was, but that the source had seen it in official documents.

There have been many reports of using the Koran in a disrespectful way to intimidate prisoners, as well as a good many other things that use there religion against them. Shaving their beards, forcing them to eat pig, Using there beliefs about sexuality and female interegators, kicking around the Koran, throwing it in toilets, etc.

This is not one isolated story, this is a common theme.

Spin gets applied both ways, and right now it is trying to cover up the rest of the claims by pointing out that one was in error, without even saying how much in error it was.

However there is very little doubt that a good deal of disrespect to the religious beliefs has been going on. And the Muslim people are very understandably growing more and more annoyed about this.
 

rutherford

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MisterMike said:
In light of this, it seems very probable that the anti-war movement and the left leaning media are in fact quite responsible for negative attitude and aggression towards our allies and troops around the world.
:rolleyes:

That's quite a jump. Care to fill us in on your reasoning?

Personally, I was unsurprised by the story about how prisoners were wrapped in American and Isreali flags and told "There is a Holy War going on between The Cross and the Star of David on one hand and the Crescent on the other." Or about other allegations of religion being used as an interrogation tool.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=4654000 (You have to listen to the audio link)
 

Brother John

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Riots? Deaths?

Wow...
In America a crucifix in a jar of urine or a "mother Marry" done all in human feces is art and people sell tickets.

Your Brother
John
 

arnisador

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It was a mistake. It weakens my confidence in their reporting, but it's not a moral failing. They can't be held responsible for the ensuing riots.
 

OUMoose

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Brother John said:
In America a crucifix in a jar of urine or a "mother Marry" done all in human feces is art and people sell tickets.
America also isn't a Theocracy, much to many fundamentalist right-winger's dismay. Don't like it? Does that disgust you? Don't go. Find something else to do. I'm sure there's 10 billion other things around...

Arnisador said:
It was a mistake. It weakens my confidence in their reporting, but it's not a moral failing. They can't be held responsible for the ensuing riots.
I have to disagree here. If it were a mistake, they should be held accountable and have to make a formal retraction and apology. I'm not sure what sort of reparations could be made, but at least a token should be offered. I mean, c'mon. It's newsweek... not the CIA...
 

michaeledward

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The Pentagon saw the article prior to it being published. They did not deny the story.

General Richard Myers, Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff stated that unrest in Afghanistan was due more to "on-going political reconciliation" than it was to the Newsweek story.

Boy, it would be nice if the Administration could get their fantasy straight.

Weapons of Mass Destruction anyone?
 

Rich Parsons

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arnisador said:
It was a mistake. It weakens my confidence in their reporting, but it's not a moral failing. They can't be held responsible for the ensuing riots.


FIRE!


Oh sorry, guess I am not responsible for . . .

The people running out of the theatre

The people pulling their guns and firing at each other.


I agree that people have to take responsibilities for their own actions, but I do not think their hands are clean either. That is asumming, they truly lied, or falsely reported. I am not able to listen at work.
 

Rich Parsons

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michaeledward said:
The Pentagon saw the article prior to it being published. They did not deny the story.

General Richard Myers, Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff stated that unrest in Afghanistan was due more to "on-going political reconciliation" than it was to the Newsweek story.

Boy, it would be nice if the Administration could get their fantasy straight.

Weapons of Mass Destruction anyone?


While I am not arguing about the WMD's.

I do not think I would want to be the general in today's climate to agree disagree, or to tell the media not to do something, until I knew for myself what the military investigations had uncovered.

I personally would not read more into the Military not wanting to censor the media, by telling them it was true or false. That is like I come up to you with a camara and say, there are reports that people in this neighborhood abuse their wives. What do youhave to day sir? No matter how you answer, the media can spin it for the numbers. I would reply with no comment, until I could see the proof, and the reports myself.
 

michaeledward

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The Chairman's quote was made before the White House unleashed their Fox-News-Like rant against Newsweek.

And ... in case anyone bothered to notice ... has anyone refuted that interrogators are using religious degredation tactics with detainees? Are we rendering detainees to some of the most brutal countries on the planet (uzbekistan anyone?) Where was the President for those missing months in the Alabama National Guard?

By allowing McClellan and company to frame the argument, are we giving up our most precious civil liberties? ... ... a chain is only as strong as its weakest link.
 
OP
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PeachMonkey

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Any links between the Newsweek article and the rioting are being blown out of proportion as part of a deliberate campaign to reduce the legitimacy of all torture allegations. You can guarantee that any time the discussion of the ongoing torture at Abu Ghraib, Guantanamo Bay, and other facilities comes up, the Fox News-style response will be: "It's all made up! Look at Newsweek, and the riots!"

Never mind the actual facts, as stated by Joint Chiefs Chairman Richard Myers (emphasis mine):

Defense Department News Briefing from May 15 2005 said:
Q: Do either one of you have anything about the demonstrations in Afghanistan, which were apparently sparked by reports that there was a lack of respect by some interrogators at Guantanamo for the Koran. Do either one of you have anything to say about that?

GEN. MYERS: It's the -- it's a judgment of our commander in Afghanistan, General Eikenberry, that in fact the violence that we saw in Jalalabad was not necessarily the result of the allegations about disrespect for the Koran -- and I'll get to that in just a minute -- but more tied up in the political process and the reconciliation process that President Karzai and his Cabinet is conducting in Afghanistan. So that's -- that was his judgment today in an after- action of that violence. He didn't -- he thought it was not at all tied to the article in the magazine.
(For the entire press conference, see: http://www.defenselink.mil/transcripts/2005/tr20050512-secdef2761.html. The quote in question is near the bottom.)

After this, of course, the White House began spinning the riots as having resulted from Isikoff's report in Newsweek.

For commentary on the whole thing, see:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7873141/#050516b
 

Andrew Green

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Remember, They admitted to getting part of the story wrong, but never which part.

MANY stories about insulting the muslim faith as interegation reports have been published and there is a lot of evidence to back some of it.

I don't think we can blame Newsweek for all of them. This is also exactly why censorship of the press shouldn't be allowed. If it was there would be nothing to prevent this and no one would be accountable.
 

Makalakumu

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I'm very skeptical about this whole thing. Torture and other humiliation is well documented and abuse of the Koran is not that out of the questions. Then, there is the fact that many human rights groups have been reporting that the Koran has been abused for months.

Newsweek probably had it right...but unfortunately they stirred up a ****-storm.

Their retraction probably has more to do with draconian White House pressure then any problems with their facts.

Got free society?
 

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If Newsweek has a standard that it normall adheres to and it didn't this time, then shame on them. It doesn't mean the alleged disrespect did or didn't happen, it just means they don't know (to their own satisfaction) if it did or not. Therefore they shouldn't have reported it.

I have heard news reports that said released prisoners have related similar stories, but without substantiation I'm not sure if it's propaganda or truth.

Some may think that Muslims "over react" to such stories of disrespect, but the culture (especially in countries where sharia {spelling} is in effect) must have a big impact in shaping how they will react to any "provocation."
 

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Newsweek, CBS' Dan Rathers' lies, questionable experts....it all points to the failings of the Media to get to the truth with accurate reporting. Whether it was done intentionally or not. The Media has failed us time and time again. The Media is longer "Keepers of the Truth", they have just become tabloid versions of thier former selves.

And shame on those Muslim extremists for exploiting the situation for thier own purposes. Where were they when three years ago when Islamic terrorists holed up in Bethlehem's Church of the Nativity reportedly used the Bible as toilet paper?
 

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Ender said:
And shame on those Muslim extremists for exploiting the situation for thier own purposes. Where were they when three years ago when Islamic terrorists holed up in Bethlehem's Church of the Nativity reportedly used the Bible as toilet paper?
Beat me to it...and since when is "Koran abuse" a legal term??

:idunno:
 

Andrew Green

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I wouldn't consider it an over reaction, this is there beliefs, their lives and their culture. To say they are over reacting is too further dissrespect this and make the problem worse.

They have a very different culture then the US, but the US is constantly trying to force western culture onto them. We should learn from the past that forcing a culture onto a people DOES NOT WORK. Even here in North America the Natives are a perfect example of this.

For the west to insult there culture, over through governments on false claims, try to force a foriegn culture on them, yes I can see why they are annoyed.

It would be like someone trying to force Communism on the US, just not going to work.
 

ginshun

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I wouldn't consider it an over reaction, this is there beliefs, their lives and their culture. To say they are over reacting is too further dissrespect this and make the problem worse.
I don't know about anyone else, but killing another human being because of what somebody they didn't even know did to a book is an overreaction in my opinion regardless of how your culture is linked to that book. How can anyone in thier right mind not think that is overreacting?

If thinking that is disrespectful, then so be it, I plan to keep being disrespectful.

How about this purely hypothetical scenario:

I am a Christian living in the US.
I here about a Muslim person in Afgahnastan flushing a bible down the toilet.
I go next door and kill my neighbor who is a Muslim.

Did I overreact?

Apperently not if you ask Andrew Green. :|
 

michaeledward

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Ender said:
Newsweek, CBS' Dan Rathers' lies, questionable experts....it all points to the failings of the Media to get to the truth with accurate reporting. Whether it was done intentionally or not. The Media has failed us time and time again. The Media is longer "Keepers of the Truth", they have just become tabloid versions of thier former selves.
I suppose it wouldn't just be that the Media were 'wrong'.

What happens when the Administration is similarly 'wrong' about the reaction of liberated Iraqi's, the existance of Weapons of Mass Destruction, the accuracy of 'intelligence reports' ... etc, etc, etc?

Oh yeah, you defend them ... and call those who question these inaccuracies traitors.
 

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