News Flash! Seoul, Korea - Since 1987 Poomsae Has No Hanja!

[MSUTKD]

Thank you Master Cole!
Anyone else want to try the other arts listed? I guess I was hoping for a little involvement/interest, beside Master Cole, Puunui and me.

 

[MSUTKD]

What does Kungfu (Wushu) call it's forms? What characters do they use?

Anyone know?

Hey Master Cole WAIT, we are still in Korea, don't get ahead of yourself sir, lol.

 

[terryl965]

Ok can someone give me them for these words
Sa-bom - instructor
sa-hyon - master
sa-song - grandmaster
pu-sa-bom assistant instructor

That would be greatly appreciated and while we are at it why do some say dojaang and others say to-jang. I have never understood the difference between the d and the t?

 

[MSUTKD]

I will tell you all that info but I really do not want this thread to be about translating this and that. Really this thread is discussing why was Poomse changed to Poomsae? It may seem a trivial topic but that change removes a linguistic history element from taekwondo that I believe the originators wanted.

Right now I was asking about the other known arts of Korea that use forms and what they called them. I am trying to establish if poomse is strictly used in taekwondo or did they borrow that term from another art?

After you look at Korean arts then we should look at Chinese arts too. What term DID they use, not the ones you might find today (those are modern folks, even with hanja).
It is all about the etymology of words that mean “forms”.

 

[puunui]

I will tell you all that info but I really do not want this thread to be about translating this and that. Really this thread is discussing why was Poomse changed to Poomsae? It may seem a trivial topic but that change removes a linguistic history element from taekwondo that I believe the originators wanted.

I think the "originators" wanted and approved of the change, because the same people who created the term poomse in 1972 or so, also were the same ones who approved the change to poomsae in 1987. All the same pioneers in 1972 were still in authority in 1987. It isn't the same situation as today, where a different non-pioneer group is making changes that the pioneers instituted.

 

[puunui]

Right now I was asking about the other known arts of Korea that use forms and what they called them. I am trying to establish if poomse is strictly used in taekwondo or did they borrow that term from another art?

At least one Hapkido organization that has developed forms, the World Hapkido Federation under GM MYUNG Kwang Sik, uses the term hyung.

After you look at Korean arts then we should look at Chinese arts too. What term DID they use, not the ones you might find today (those are modern folks, even with hanja). It is all about the etymology of words that mean “forms”.

I think the english term for Kung Fu forms is "sets" or "set". I don't know what the chinese terminology would be. I guess I could go look it up.

 

[MSUTKD]

I think the "originators" wanted and approved of the change, because the same people who created the term poomse in 1972 or so, also were the same ones who approved the change to poomsae in 1987. All the same pioneers in 1972 were still in authority in 1987. It isn't the same situation as today, where a different non-pioneer group is making changes that the pioneers instituted.

We all hear about the “committee” that approved the poomse but who really designed them? I have talked with committee members and they did not design them, they admit that. History often obscures the workers not the leaders. That sir is a whole other topic and belongs when we get to the end of this chain of thought.

 

[puunui]

Taekwondo as practiced and taught by Song Duk Ki did not have anything comparable to Poomsae. Shin Han Seung was the first person that we know of to assemble something like a Poomsae. He did so at the recommendation of worker at an office of the Ministry of Culture. He told GM Shin that a type of Poomsae would be needed to get Taekkyon registered as an intangible cultural asset. GM Shin composed this from the techniques he had learned from GM Song and presented it to the Cultural Asset Registry office, however it was suggested to him that he add more hand techniques, but Taekkyon did not have many, so GM Shim added in some extra hand techniques and the form was accepted. He named it "bonddae".

Is this the form that GM Shin is demonstrating in the WTF's video, Art of Competition?

 

[puunui]

Do you want the box cover or just the cover of the book

Just the cover of the book and maybe the page on the inside with the publishing information. Thanks.

 

[puunui]

Old arts to check:

권법Kwon Bop (拳&#27861 - Fist Law
수박Soo Bak (手&#25615 – Hand Strike
선무도 Sun Moo Do (禪武&#36947 – Zen Martial Ways
태껸 Taekkyon

1. Why does Taekkyon appear to have no hanja?

Kwon Bup if it is the one you are talking about, is featured in the Mooyedobotongji, which looks like one long form. The kwon bup that GM YOON Byung In brought from also had forms. Sunmoodo isn't an old art, but rather is a new art based on Hapkido. Taekkyon I believe has no hanja because it is a unique Korean art, with no corresponding art in China, Okinawa or Japan. However I always thought that it was somehow related to Chinese Martial Arts, due to its emphasis on kicking, the old "northern legs, southern fist" thing. But I don't think anyone knows for sure.

 

[terryl965]

Just the cover of the book and maybe the page on the inside with the publishing information. Thanks.

I will scan tonight and send it though pm to you.

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

Ok can someone give me them for these words
Sa-bom - instructor
sa-hyon - master
sa-song - grandmaster
pu-sa-bom assistant instructor

That would be greatly appreciated and while we are at it why do some say dojaang and others say to-jang. I have never understood the difference between the d and the t?

Terry,

I started a thread to answer this: http://martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1407124#post1407124

I did my best on it. Input from the more knowledgeable is welcome.

Daniel