News Flash! Seoul, Korea - Since 1987 Poomsae Has No Hanja!

mastercole

Master Black Belt
Joined
Apr 19, 2011
Messages
1,157
Reaction score
14
Location
Longboat Key over looking Sarasota Bay, at least u
News Flash

Seoul, Korea - Since 1987 Poomsae Has No Hanja!

According to the Kukkiwon, the WTF, KTA, and individual KTA Poomsae Committee members, on February 26, 1987 a meeting was held with the Hangul Society or Hangul Hakhae (seven scholars of the ethnic Korean language). As a result of this meeting it was decided to change several Taekwondo terms into ethnic Korean words (no Hanja).

Lets look at Kukkiwon High Dan Director and Poomsae Committee member, GM Kyo Yoon Lee's book, Global Taekwondo to see what I mean.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/grandmastercole/5838249404/in/pool-1667737@N25

So Poomse, which had related Hanja - see this link http://www.flickr.com/photos/grandmastercole/5837989126/in/pool-1667737@N25 was changed to "poomsae". The new ending "sae" had no related Hanja, changing the term into a pure ethnic Korean term. This is not the only time such a meeting has occurred, that latest series of meetings occurred between 2008 and 2010 resulting in many changed terms, which I posted here on this list last year.

Any way, lets take a look at some credible sources of information that give the correct definition of the current Taekwondo term, Poomsae.

Let's start with what the Kukkiwon states, see the link below.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/grandmastercole/5837213335/in/photostream

There we have it, right from the horses mouth. We can also see they are using a Hangul (not Hanja) descriptor to explain more detail. Maybe you notice the Hangul for "Ahnjumsae", or sitting shape inside the parentheses. Yes, the Kukkiwon loves to use the word shape for Poomsae, and they can since they have not been restrained by a Hanja based term since 1987, that would be 24 years now.

Let's take a look at another credible source, the Ullsan Taekwondo Association (KTA in Ullsan) website posting about the 1987 change to Poomsae.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/grandmastercole/5837764288/in/pool-1667737@N25

Oh, check out this video. It's a TV show in Korea where they talk about words. The TV commentator chose "poomse" vs "poomsae" as a topic. He even shows a nice graph of the different terms, funny he feels the Taekwondo people should still use the old Hanja based term, not ethnic Korean terms!

http://blog.daum.net/_blog/BlogTypeView.do?blogid=0AQLd&articleno=3062738#

Official statements on current Poomsae definition:

LEE Kyong Myung - writes majority of everything technical from WTF, KTA & KKW, from the Kukkiwon Textbook to all three websites.

Chapter 4. The Principles of Taekwondo Page 65. Pumsae (Principle)
- pum is referred to as a static state, and a movement as a dynamic state

Chapter 5. Special Qualities of Pumsae page 73-76
- pumsae is a pure Korean term
- compound of pum and sae
- pum denotes a certain movement, form or character
- sae signifies style, taste, appearance and the like
- pum (form) has the meaning of static state of movement already suspended
- sae means the dynamic state of an entity

Kukkiwon Instructor Course Textbook

Page 169. F. Explanations of Basic Terms

Posture

Shapes

Dongjak / movement = shape of movement
Poom / form = shape of the body in general

Kyo Yoon Lee

The shape after conducting a Taekwondo action is called a “poom”
…and it means the stop of action “jung” – negative
Sae means movement of action such as shape and form –positive

WTF

Shape of execution of poom is movement
Shape of ending is poom

Al Cole
 

MSUTKD

Purple Belt
Joined
Jun 13, 2005
Messages
388
Reaction score
14
Location
Michigan
What I had objected too was people saying ther was "new" hanja and that to sterilize misunderstandings and spelling mistakes the "leaders" make up stuff.
 

Archtkd

3rd Black Belt
Joined
Oct 27, 2009
Messages
973
Reaction score
99
Location
St. Louis, MO
This thread seems to have started after some back channel discussions and has now opened up publicly at an advanced level that some of us cant't understand. Could someone kindly expound on what all the hullaballoo about Poomsae, Pomse, Hanja and Hangul is all about?
 

MSUTKD

Purple Belt
Joined
Jun 13, 2005
Messages
388
Reaction score
14
Location
Michigan
Master Cole has put together the best paper trail for this event that I have ever seen. Without his knowledge and contacts this would not make such a good story. This should really start some wonderful conversations about poomse/poomsae. The dates and events are not really up for debate and never were. What should be discussed are the reasons for the changes and the disregard for following common scholarly linguistic and historical methodology.

The rewriting of history appears to be a common practice in taekwondo writing, which has been discussed ad nauseam and I hope that won’t happen here unless relevant. I hope we can all agree that karate played an important role in taekwondo’s development. What is also true is that the term 型(hyeong) was used for forms practice, this taken directly from karate terminology. Because it was hanja it really is relatively interchangeable as far as language is concerned; the meaning is not lost just the pronunciation is different. Interestingly, when this word is broken down it means “shape that cuts the earth” or rather a drawing or model of something, back to that later. I have always preferred “model” to “form” when defining hyeong; philosophically it carries more value. I was always taught that forms are the “models” or patterns of our martial arts.

Sometime in the 50’s, 60’s and 70's the taekwondoin of that time began to really organize the art. Though I read a lot of criticism of taekwondo pioneers and the formation of the WTF and Kukkiwon, these men were actually very well versed in martial arts; they were/are scholars. The development of the Palgwe/Taeguek and yudanja hyeong really shows the depth of their knowledge and direction. Even though the individual moves from the forms are many times taken directly from karate the underlying creation and system is amazing and follows rules (later subject). During this time the term 品勢 poomse appears, not as a new term for forms but to describe a group of forms. This idea fits perfectly with the hanja and the organized system that taekwondo was becoming. I have defined poomse as, “articles for cultivating strength”; the articles are the forms themselves and the cultivating of strength is from their intended purpose: to make us better at taekwondo. What a beautiful concept and truly fitting of a classical martial art; the skills evolved but the classic martial paradigms remain.

So, what the hell happened? This is not really easy to directly answer but let’s look at what really changed. First, we begin with the hanja, 品勢 . If we take these characters and put them into hangul we get, 품세. Using Romanization (another discussion) of these characters we would get poomse. As, Master Cole has shown after 1987 the kukkiwon used the hangul품새, which Romanized is poomsae. What is important here is that if you use the later you cannot use the associated haja because the character 勢 is pronounced세. The explanation given, in part, is that the Hangul Society thought they should change it, which makes no real sense at all. To add to the confusion they say they are creating a pure Korean term, the fact that it is almost a homonym and that now it has a new meaning? Master Cole has pointed out that they seem to like the term shape; well funny that the term 새 does not even appear to reference this but 품 does. Wait, that term was not changed was it? What happened is they took a complete classical, hanja included, term, changed the spelling slightly, hence removing the hanja and made up from the nothing a definition. From an academic standpoint this is ludicrous but there might be some answer out there.

In discussions with Korean language experts this is not uncommon in Korean today. Many people want to remove both Japanese and Chinese influence from writing as to support a Koreanized or pure language. Other more interesting opinions are that a mispronunciation may also be a factor, which would also bring the Hangul Society’s involvement to the front. This has happened several times in hagul/haja pronunciations in the past. Korean actually has a couple of distinct dialects which are similar to our northern, east coast and down south pronunciations. In fact when I showed this to a Korean Language Professor they laughed because as it happens of all the hangul세 and새 are very hard to distinguish in many dialects. If we use the hanja品勢 , some would say poomse and others poomsae (I am talking about the pronunciation not the spelling which is the same). If one was from Pusan or Taegu they might indeed say it one way and someone from Seoul another. This could cause a “spelling error” basically if you were telling this word to someone else; since martial arts terms are not really common language and they would hear it by sound.

Why they would choose losing the true meaning, including the hanja, for an adopted made up definition is a real mystery. Could it be a big mistake, ego or actually a well thought out idea?
 
Last edited:

Archtkd

3rd Black Belt
Joined
Oct 27, 2009
Messages
973
Reaction score
99
Location
St. Louis, MO
Master Cole has put together the best paper trail for this event that I have ever seen. Without his knowledge and contacts this would not make such a good story. This should really start some wonderful conversations about poomse/poomsae. The dates and events are not really up for debate and never were. What should be discussed are the reasons for the changes and the disregard for following common scholarly linguistic and historical methodology.

Excellent. Thanks a million. I, and I think many other folks, didn't understand the initial posts. I must also say this is very deep, enlightening stuff.
 

puunui

Senior Master
Joined
Dec 7, 2010
Messages
4,378
Reaction score
26
What I had objected too was people saying ther was "new" hanja and that to sterilize misunderstandings and spelling mistakes the "leaders" make up stuff.

Who was saying that?
 

MSUTKD

Purple Belt
Joined
Jun 13, 2005
Messages
388
Reaction score
14
Location
Michigan
So, over 200 reads but not much banter from the peanut gallery, hmm. Let me try to fan the fire a bit; remember that when I write the next few thoughts. I must begin with words from French philosopher Jacques Ellul who wrote a great book called, Propaganda: The Formation of Men's Attitudes.

“The individual who burns with desire for action but does not know what to do is a common type in our society. He wants to act for the sake of justice, peace, progress, but does not know how. If propaganda can show him this 'how' then it has won the game; action will surely follow.”

Let me tell you how this all started:
I had read on another board something Master Cole had written; it said that the Hanja had changed for poomsae. I know a student of his and though I have met and talked to Master Cole I don’t have his phone number….yet, lol. I told his student that he needs to send a message to Master Cole that the hanja has not changed that it depends on what word you are pronouncing. Well in that message both Master Cole and I were really unable to share our points of view. He posted a message to me on even another board for me. He and I exchanged some email and basically found that we are not in conflict on this issue but rather both are focusing on different parts of the topic.

I have been aware of this issue for many years after reading about it in some of Lee Kyong Myong’s taekwondo writing. This is before I was really a student of hangul and hanja. After I studied the language, in protest of course I have always refused to use the spelling “poomsae” over the true spelling “poomse”. The reason is because I am a traditionalist; we will get back to that. Around 2008 I started to use poomsae in my writing mostly because I grew tired of people telling me I was spelling it wrong and had no clue when I tried to explain the reason. I consider the spelling, “POOMSAE” to be generic and encompassing the true term品勢. In fact I wrote an article in 2006 for the Journal of Asian Martial Arts about this, it was declined, probably for an article on Korean Sumo Chinese strikes from Ultra Master Jim Smith.

So, why should you care? I read so many opinions on this board from the so called “traditionalist”, “experts” and “masters of the deadly streets” who cannot believe what has happened to taekwondo that it actually usually keeps me from posting. Thank God for Archtkd, who did not understand and actually asked. Does that mean that everyone else knows; if that is the case any thoughts? If you really don’t care that is fine also but you might want to stop reading this.

One of my biggest peeves about martial arts people is that they stop growing, learning and training. As a young student when I asked my teacher history, language or philosophy questions he did not just give me an answer; he pointed me in a direction. From his teaching I have learned Korean (language), Hanja (Chinese characters) and history; if you do not have a rudimentary skill in these areas I will say out loud that you do not know very much about martial arts. Why? Martial arts were/are developed in a foreign culture and without knowledge of this you are missing the boat. If you claim to teach traditional martial arts and don’t know the language, you are a hypocrite.

“But Ron, this is America and we speak English”!
“I don’t have time to learn this stuff; I would miss Dancing with the Stars!”
“I read, A Killing Art, that’s the real history”

If you are an instructor of martial arts, a high Dan individual or even a keyboard warrior you have a responsibility to TRAIN your body, mind and spirit. If you don’t then what kind of example are you? Not much of one I might add.

I hope I incite a reaction in your mind for that is just what I have attempted to do; remember the quote from Mr. Ellul (paraphrased: If my words bring you to action I have done my job)
 

terryl965

<center><font size="2"><B>Martial Talk Ultimate<BR
MTS Alumni
Joined
Apr 9, 2004
Messages
41,259
Reaction score
336
Location
Grand Prairie Texas
Master Southwick hello and hope you are doing great. I have been going though some of my books and I see in the Taekwon-do Textbook it is written poomsae. Registered No.13-27 March 2 1973 Author Kim Un-yong

Yet in the book Tae Kwon Do The ultimate reference guide to the world most popular Martial Art it is spelled poomse copyright 1989 written by Yeon Hee Park,Yeon Hwan Park and John Gerrard.

The first one in endrosed by the Kukkiwon, the second by the WTF. My questionis this why would to very respectful orgs. that are really one have it spelled to different ways. I believe this is what confuses me when trying to speak or really learn the Korean Language, it is never the same in books,Master's or G.M.'s they all seem to have there own way of wanting things done. If we are to believe that it should be poomsae, should all material being endorse not have the same written words? I have really been trying to understand the Korean language for sometime now but it seems as I move forward into the language the further I seem to get, the differences seem to surface. What books or audio do you recogmend for learning the correct way. Please do not sat Rosetta Stone my G.M. said half of what I learned was wrong.:asian:
 

MSUTKD

Purple Belt
Joined
Jun 13, 2005
Messages
388
Reaction score
14
Location
Michigan
Terry,

Actually Master Cole should have titled this thread, &#8220;Poomsae never had hanja&#8221;.

You have to look at books that actually are written in hangul (Korean) to see the shift. If you look at old books it appears most of the time as&#54408;&#49464;, which if we use proper Romanization would be poomse. Do you remember the three volume, Taekwondo Textbook by Kim Jeong Rok (1986)? He uses the above spelling, including hanja correctly and also uses the term &#28436;&#27494;&#32218; (&#50672;&#47924;&#49440;) yun mu sun (embusen in Japanese) to describe form structure. That term was also axed by the kukkiwon due to its Japanese origin. Even Lee Kyong Myong has it Romanized a couple of different ways but we would need to see his writing in Korean to be sure. In the Kukkiwon textbook toady it is defiantly&#54408;&#49352;, or poomsae. Neither is right or wrong here and actually in a sense we are talking about two different words. Confused yet?

As for language study; it is a lot of work but the benefits are amazing. Taking a class is the best and most colleges offer Korean. Contact the local Korean community as they have classes for kids, which you could attend I am sure, that can be fun. Train the same way you train in taekwondo.
 

puunui

Senior Master
Joined
Dec 7, 2010
Messages
4,378
Reaction score
26
I have been going though some of my books and I see in the Taekwon-do Textbook it is written poomsae. Registered No.13-27 March 2 1973 Author Kim Un-yong


I don't think I have ever heard of this one before. Can you do me a favor and scan the cover? Thanks. Is the book in english or the korean language?
 

puunui

Senior Master
Joined
Dec 7, 2010
Messages
4,378
Reaction score
26
I had read on another board something Master Cole had written; it said that the Hanja had changed for poomsae. I know a student of his and though I have met and talked to Master Cole I don’t have his phone number….yet, lol. I told his student that he needs to send a message to Master Cole that the hanja has not changed that it depends on what word you are pronouncing.


I believe what Mastercole meant by the comment that the hanja had changed was that the hanja went from the one everyone is posting (which I don't know how to post) to no hanja. That was what was meant. Or at least that was my take on it.
 
OP
mastercole

mastercole

Master Black Belt
Joined
Apr 19, 2011
Messages
1,157
Reaction score
14
Location
Longboat Key over looking Sarasota Bay, at least u
I know I made some catchy headline to bring attention to my posting, but my aim here was not to share much of my opinion about what the Hangul Hakhae (Scholars of the Korean Language) recommended. I was attempting to present basic fact and the facts that I presented, and their sources, speak for themselves, very clearly.

One opinion I will share is that I'm pretty sure the Hangul Hakhae knows more about the past, present and future condition of the Korean language and it's applications than any of us. Like, our Taekwondo seniors at the Kukkiwon, I'll will go along with the language experts recommendations. Plus who am I to get in the way of Korean national identity issues.

Even in sharing an opinion, it is important to be able and willing to share who, what and where influenced that opinion and that goes back to facts, in my opinion :)

Note: "moyangsae" and "saegida" are examples of common Korean language used in reference to shape, or shaping and there alternate meanings. Sae can also be pared up with other parts of the language to mean many unrelated things, well, according to Si Hyeok Lee a Korean Taekkyon master who lives in my house.
 

MSUTKD

Purple Belt
Joined
Jun 13, 2005
Messages
388
Reaction score
14
Location
Michigan
Even in sharing an opinion, it is important to be able and willing to share who, what and where influenced that opinion and that goes back to facts, in my opinion :)

Note: "moyangsae" and "saegida" are examples of common Korean language used in reference to shape, or shaping and there alternate meanings. Sae can also be pared up with other parts of the language to mean many unrelated things, well, according to Si Hyeok Lee a Korean Taekkyon master who lives in my house.

Yes sir but this is not the time nor place and as for "Sae" I would not know, I still live with my mom. ;)
 

Archtkd

3rd Black Belt
Joined
Oct 27, 2009
Messages
973
Reaction score
99
Location
St. Louis, MO
[[/FONT][/COLOR] poomse appears, not as a new term for forms but to describe a group of forms. This idea fits perfectly with the hanja and the organized system that taekwondo was becoming. I have defined poomse as, “articles for cultivating strength”; the articles are the forms themselves and the cultivating of strength is from their intended purpose: to make us better at taekwondo. What a beautiful concept and truly fitting of a classical martial art; the skills evolved but the classic martial paradigms remain. [/SIZE]

So, what the hell happened? This is not really easy to directly answer but let’s look at what really changed. First, we begin with the hanja, &#21697;&#21218; . If we take these characters and put them into hangul we get, &#54408;&#49464;. Using Romanization (another discussion) of these characters we would get poomse. As, Master Cole has shown after 1987 the kukkiwon used the hangul&#54408;&#49352;, which Romanized is poomsae. What is important here is that if you use the later you cannot use the associated haja because the character &#21218; is pronounced&#49464;. The explanation given, in part, is that the Hangul Society thought they should change it, which makes no real sense at all. To add to the confusion they say they are creating a pure Korean term, the fact that it is almost a homonym and that now it has a new meaning? Master Cole has pointed out that they seem to like the term shape; well funny that the term &#49352; does not even appear to reference this but &#54408; does. Wait, that term was not changed was it? What happened is they took a complete classical, hanja included, term, changed the spelling slightly, hence removing the hanja and made up from the nothing a definition. From an academic standpoint this is ludicrous but there might be some answer out there.

In discussions with Korean language experts this is not uncommon in Korean today. Many people want to remove both Japanese and Chinese influence from writing as to support a Koreanized or pure language. Other more interesting opinions are that a mispronunciation may also be a factor, which would also bring the Hangul Society’s involvement to the front. This has happened several times in hagul/haja pronunciations in the past. Korean actually has a couple of distinct dialects which are similar to our northern, east coast and down south pronunciations. In fact when I showed this to a Korean Language Professor they laughed because as it happens of all the hangul&#49464; and&#49352; are very hard to distinguish in many dialects. If we use the hanja&#21697;&#21218; , some would say poomse and others poomsae (I am talking about the pronunciation not the spelling which is the same). If one was from Pusan or Taegu they might indeed say it one way and someone from Seoul another. This could cause a “spelling error” basically if you were telling this word to someone else; since martial arts terms are not really common language and they would hear it by sound.

Why they would choose losing the true meaning, including the hanja, for an adopted made up definition is a real mystery. Could it be a big mistake, ego or actually a well thought out idea?

It seems like the above paragraphs comprise the crux of this thread and one of the questions they raise for me is: Do the linguistic changes in question alter the core meaning and interpretive essence of Kukkiwon Taekwondo forms -- from the perspective of one who is learning the forms. I don' t know Korean or any East Asian language, but having been born and raised in a country with 40-plus different ethnic groups with their own languages and hundreds of dialects, I understand some of the complications of language and the way subtleties of language can be used to alter ideas for both good and bad.
 
Last edited:

puunui

Senior Master
Joined
Dec 7, 2010
Messages
4,378
Reaction score
26
It seems like the above paragraphs comprise the crux of this thread and one of the questions they raise for me is: Do the linguistic changes in question alter the core meaning and interpretive essence of Kukkiwon Taekwondo forms -- from the perspective of one who is learning the forms.


Even more interesting is how Korean culture has changed over the last fifty years. In the past, knowing hanja was valued and was the mark of an educated person in Korea and other asian countries. Today not so much, with everything in hangul. You can still find some books written in hanja, but mostly is all hangul now.

One example, since we are talking about General Choi again, is the fact that the naming committee hunted in vain to find the hanja characters for Taekkyon, and when they couldn't find it, settled on Taekwon instead as the closest hanja approximation for Taekkyon. If that were today, there wouldn't be a naming committee and the name General Choi would be pushing would be Taekkyondo, or maybe just Taekkyon. And if that happened, I wonder if we would be having arguments over who the founder of Taekkyon was, or whether Taekkyon was 1300 or 2000 years old. Probably not.
 

terryl965

<center><font size="2"><B>Martial Talk Ultimate<BR
MTS Alumni
Joined
Apr 9, 2004
Messages
41,259
Reaction score
336
Location
Grand Prairie Texas
I don't think I have ever heard of this one before. Can you do me a favor and scan the cover? Thanks. Is the book in english or the korean language?

Do you want the box cover or just the cover of the book
 

MSUTKD

Purple Belt
Joined
Jun 13, 2005
Messages
388
Reaction score
14
Location
Michigan
Puunui, thank you for taking the thread this direction, I thought I was going to have to push it again.

The poomse/poomsae issue has always bothered me, especially as a student of language. Why would scholars of Korean language supposedly decide to remove it from taekwondo literature?
One of the most enlightening aspects of language is etymology; the study of words and their origins. I guess &#21697;&#21218; (poomse) must have an origin too? I wonder if it used anywhere else or is it used exclusively in martial arts? If it is used in martial arts then it would be before the formation of taekwondo. Do other Korean arts use forms and if they do what are they called?
Do they use poomse &#54408;&#49464;/(&#21697;&#21218;) or poomsae &#54408;&#49352; or another term like &#22411; (hyeong)?

Old arts to check:

&#44428;&#48277;Kwon Bop (&#25331;&#27861;) - Fist Law
&#49688;&#48149;Soo Bak (&#25163;&#25615;) – Hand Strike
&#49440;&#47924;&#46020; Sun Moo Do (&#31146;&#27494;&#36947;) – Zen Martial Ways
&#53468;&#44792; Taekkyon

Wait, where is the hanja for taekkyon? I was never able to find it and I asked my teacher; he told me there is none. Why?
I know very little about taekkyon and because it is important here I really hope that Master Cole will chime in because folks, he really does know this stuff.

Master Cole,

1. Why does Taekkyon appear to have no hanja?
2. Does it use forms of any type? What are they called?
 

Daniel Sullivan

Grandmaster
MT Mentor
Joined
May 27, 2008
Messages
6,472
Reaction score
269
Location
Olney, Maryland
Old arts to check:

&#44428;&#48277;Kwon Bop (&#25331;&#27861;) - Fist Law
&#49688;&#48149;Soo Bak (&#25163;&#25615;) – Hand Strike
&#49440;&#47924;&#46020; Sun Moo Do (&#31146;&#27494;&#36947;) – Zen Martial Ways
&#53468;&#44792; Taekkyon

Wait, where is the hanja for taekkyon? I was never able to find it and I asked my teacher; he told me there is none. Why?
I know very little about taekkyon and because it is important here I really hope that Master Cole will chime in because folks, he really does know this stuff.
So far as I know, there isn't one. Perhaps it is because Takkyeon was a folk game and the name was coined by a commoner who couldn't read or write hanja?

Daniel
 
OP
mastercole

mastercole

Master Black Belt
Joined
Apr 19, 2011
Messages
1,157
Reaction score
14
Location
Longboat Key over looking Sarasota Bay, at least u


Master Cole,

1. Why does Taekkyon appear to have no hanja?
2. Does it use forms of any type? What are they called?



To see examples of Hangul used for Taekkyon &#53469;&#44204; in Korea, check out the World Taekkyon Headquarters site. http://www.taekkyonkorea.com/event/engtk/

Though some people have tried to attach Hanja to the word Taekkyon, and some internet Korean to Chinese translators will come up with Chinese characters for the Hangul that do not relate to the definition of Taekkyon (kicking), GM Yong Bok Lee has researched the subject deeply and states there is no correct Hanja for Taekkyon. &#53469; is said as "taek" not "tae". &#44204; is said as Kyon.

We learned how to pronounce this word from Song Duk Ki.

Taekwondo as practiced and taught by Song Duk Ki did not have anything comparable to Poomsae. Shin Han Seung was the first person that we know of to assemble something like a Poomsae. He did so at the recommendation of worker at an office of the Ministry of Culture. He told GM Shin that a type of Poomsae would be needed to get Taekkyon registered as an intangible cultural asset. GM Shin composed this from the techniques he had learned from GM Song and presented it to the Cultural Asset Registry office, however it was suggested to him that he add more hand techniques, but Taekkyon did not have many, so GM Shim added in some extra hand techniques and the form was accepted. He named it "bonddae".

Later, GM Young Bok Lee composed a series of patterns based on techniques he learned from GM Song and that had direct applications to Taekkyon sparring. GM Lee gave these patterns
the name "Holsaegim." This word is a compound word made from two pure Korean words, hol & saegim, they do not have Hanja, the meaning is "Alone Review." Most of Taekkyon terms are pure Korean words with no Hanja. Many of Taekkyon's terms are so old, that today's Koreans, even elderly Korean's do not understand them. It took a lot of research and assistance from groups like the Hangul Society.

Again, all this is according to my direct conversations and practice with GM Yong Bok Lee and his son, Master Si Hyeok Lee.
 
OP
mastercole

mastercole

Master Black Belt
Joined
Apr 19, 2011
Messages
1,157
Reaction score
14
Location
Longboat Key over looking Sarasota Bay, at least u
Puunui, thank you for taking the thread this direction, I thought I was going to have to push it again.

The poomse/poomsae issue has always bothered me, especially as a student of language. Why would scholars of Korean language supposedly decide to remove it from taekwondo literature?
One of the most enlightening aspects of language is etymology; the study of words and their origins. I guess &#21697;&#21218; (poomse) must have an origin too? I wonder if it used anywhere else or is it used exclusively in martial arts? If it is used in martial arts then it would be before the formation of taekwondo. Do other Korean arts use forms and if they do what are they called?
Do they use poomse &#54408;&#49464;/(&#21697;&#21218;) or poomsae &#54408;&#49352; or another term like &#22411; (hyeong)?

Old arts to check:

&#44428;&#48277;Kwon Bop (&#25331;&#27861;) - Fist Law
&#49688;&#48149;Soo Bak (&#25163;&#25615;) – Hand Strike
&#49440;&#47924;&#46020; Sun Moo Do (&#31146;&#27494;&#36947;) – Zen Martial Ways
&#53468;&#44792; Taekkyon

Wait, where is the hanja for taekkyon? I was never able to find it and I asked my teacher; he told me there is none. Why?
I know very little about taekkyon and because it is important here I really hope that Master Cole will chime in because folks, he really does know this stuff.

Master Cole,

1. Why does Taekkyon appear to have no hanja?
2. Does it use forms of any type? What are they called?

What does Kungfu (Wushu) call it's forms? What characters do they use?

Anyone know?
 

Latest Discussions

Top