never lost in 200 fights

[windwalker099]

"If people fight out of anger, they last very little.

They're the ones up against a rope, look between their gloves.

Back in the days, it was about to honor.

Without the honor, then there's no respect,
and when there's no respect, there's no discipline.
I'm a martial artist to this day."

Benny "The Jet" Urquidez

"The Jet"

shared this story that highlights the difference between sport and martial arts

Interviewer: “They say, ‘Well, you created Kickboxing.’”
Jet: “Yeah, I did — that’s a sport. But I’m a martial artist first.”

“The first time someone came at me with an ice pick, I hit him — boom — he went down.
I figured he was done.

But as I turned away, he stabbed me in the rear.
I turned back — he still had the weapon — so I side-kicked him in the face. He let go of me after that.”

His point, in the old days people had honer, now everyone is carrying something.

"There is no honor fight no more."

"the rules go out the window "

Thoughts

 

[Badhabits]

I doubt people were ever as honorable as we like to think. Human nature probably doesn't change.

 

[Tony Dismukes]

Benny Urquidez is a great martial artist. He was a great fighter and one of the early pioneers in kickboxing.

He did not invent kickboxing. His first kickboxing match was in 1974. Both the term kickboxing and the sport (as something considered distinct from Karate and Muay Thai) were created in Japan in the late 1960s. If you had to name one man responsible for coining the name and the sport, it would probably be Osamu Noguchi. In the U.S., the first pro kickboxing match was probably the one won by Joe Lewis against Greg Baines in January, 1970.

His claimed fight record of 200-0 is also exaggerated. His documented record is 49-1-1, with 3 no-contests. He may have some more undocumented bouts, but I'm pretty sure that he doesn't have 3 times as many undocumented matches as documented ones. Even if he's counting his pre-kickboxing point karate record, he wasn't undefeated in that arena either.

I personally don't buy into his valorization of fighting unarmed as inherently honorable compared to fighting with weapons. But that's a matter of personal philosophy.

I think he has a lot to offer as a teacher. I don't know if I saw anything in that particular clip that I haven't seen from other practitioners, but it's a short clip. He definitely has a wealth of knowledge and experience.

 

[isshinryuronin]

Benny Urquidez is a great martial artist. He was a great fighter and one of the early pioneers in kickboxing.

Even if he's counting his pre-kickboxing point karate record, he wasn't undefeated in that arena either.

Both these are true. All I know of his pro kickboxing is what I've seen in a few clips (impressive). I know more about his point tournament fighting as I competed in some of the same ones and watched a number of his matches from the sidelines. He did lose a few, but more often than not, the ones he lost were in the finals and he still usually walked away with a trophy.

 

[isshinryuronin]

Just watched the video. Not sure when it was made, but Benny' looks to be over 70 here and it's clear he's still got fire in his punches and kicks.

There was a thread somewhere discussing hitting with the ball or instep on round kicks. Benny perfectly showed the effectiveness of the ball kick digging into Jesse's abdomen. The video also demonstrated some other things that have been discussed in here. He brought up some good principles. It's the most I've ever seen him talk.

I personally don't buy into his valorization of fighting unarmed as inherently honorable compared to fighting with weapons. But that's a matter of personal philosophy.

I think his mindset here is based on his experiences growing up in the Valley in the 60's gang culture. Nowadays we visualize gangs as sadistic criminal thugs, but then and there, there were teen gangs that were not criminally inclined. They were more like fraternities, existing more for social reasons than nefarious ones.

Not to say they weren't inclined to fighting and challenging others to show their dominance. In that world a fight, one on one, or group on group, could often be seen as "honorable" and certain "rules" were usually followed. Once dominance was determined the fight was over, its purpose accomplished. Everybody would go home in one piece and get yelled at by their moms.

Another note on Benny: He was one of the few guys who could pull off wearing pink shoes. For some reason that memory has stuck with me these many years.

Disclaimer:
I wasn't in a gang and didn't know Benny well in high school. This was just my impression and observation as a regular kid growing up in 1960's (San Fernando) Valley which made up the northern portion of Los Angeles County (and included Reseda for you Karate Kid fans) and having seen some of what I described.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

there were teen gangs that were not criminally inclined. They were more like fraternities, existing more for social reasons than nefarious ones.

You are correct there. When I was young in Taiwan, I had to protect my neighborhood. Sometime someone knocked on my window and said that his young brother was beaten up. I had to grab my weapon and fought someone I had never meet before. Will you call that "gang"? I prefer to call that "neighborhood watching". There was no leader in that group. If you beat up someone, next day, his brothers, his neighbors all beat you up. IMO, it's very good social system. There is nothing like that in US here.

 

[Same Trick]

About inventing kickboxing, here’s an early pic way before the 60’s - Bogu kumite kenwa mabuni - Bing

On Benny Urquidez, his fight against Jackie Chan is one of the great martial arts movie fights ever, his real life kickboxing skill adapted nicely to the movie screen.

Gangster fight or street fight in general, it was much more honorable before, at least in my home country, drawing a weapon or even kicking at someone was considered a most cowardly act and no one wanted to be a coward

 

[HighKick]

Benny Urquidez is a great martial artist. He was a great fighter and one of the early pioneers in kickboxing.

He did not invent kickboxing. His first kickboxing match was in 1974. Both the term kickboxing and the sport (as something considered distinct from Karate and Muay Thai) were created in Japan in the late 1960s. If you had to name one man responsible for coining the name and the sport, it would probably be Osamu Noguchi. In the U.S., the first pro kickboxing match was probably the one won by Joe Lewis against Greg Baines in January, 1970.

His claimed fight record of 200-0 is also exaggerated. His documented record is 49-1-1, with 3 no-contests. He may have some more undocumented bouts, but I'm pretty sure that he doesn't have 3 times as many undocumented matches as documented ones. Even if he's counting his pre-kickboxing point karate record, he wasn't undefeated in that arena either.

I personally don't buy into his valorization of fighting unarmed as inherently honorable compared to fighting with weapons. But that's a matter of personal philosophy.

I think he has a lot to offer as a teacher. I don't know if I saw anything in that particular clip that I haven't seen from other practitioners, but it's a short clip. He definitely has a wealth of knowledge and experience.

Fun fact. I fought the Jet in 85 or 86 in Memphis back when PKA first came to TN and it was a big thing. Not a major fight by any means, just the next one in order. Three rounds and we ended with him winning by 1 point on the score cards. He had to be in his late 30's or early 40's but still had a lot of juice and staying power. I had no idea who 'the Jet' was back then.

For sure, his record has been embellished quite a lot, but the guy was a good fighter back in the day.

 

[windwalker099]

You are correct there. When I was young in Taiwan, I had to protect my neighborhood. Sometime someone knocked on my window and said that his young brother was beaten up. I had to grab my weapon and fought someone I had never meet before. Will you call that "gang"? I prefer to call that "neighborhood watching". There was no leader in that group. If you beat up someone, next day, his brothers, his neighbors all beat you up. IMO, it's very good social system. There is nothing like that in US here.

What kind of weapon?

From my time living in Taiwan and China, noticed the neighborhoods were made up of small, close-knit communities. While they may not have official leaders it seemed like they did have people who represented the community with the gov .

Growing up in SF in the early ’70s.,

The city was divided into areas with distinct cultural identities:

Mission District, Mexican, Latino
Chinatown, Sunset District, Chinese
Fillmore, Black
Castro , gay
Cow Palace, Filipino,Pacific Islander
North Beach, Italian

ect.

Each group had its own form of "neighborhood watching" with some depending on time, not good place to be
if one was not from it.

For me a very different place now, lost a lot of the flavor it had growing up in it.

About inventing kickboxing, here’s an early pic way before the 60’s - Bogu kumite kenwa mabuni - Bing

On Benny Urquidez, his fight against Jackie Chan is one of the great martial arts movie fights ever, his real life kickboxing skill adapted nicely to the movie screen.

Gangster fight or street fight in general, it was much more honorable before, at least in my home country, drawing a weapon or even kicking at someone was considered a most cowardly act and no one wanted to be a coward

I think this is what The Jet was getting at. Like you mentioned, there were things that were seen as cowardly, without honor, or as people might say now, without “street cred.”

In the video, Benny talks about how he considers himself a martial artist first, not just a fighter.

Part of the discussion in the Is BJJ a TMA? thread.

Fighters win by any means necessary.

Martial artists define themselves by the values they choose to live by, the traditions they carry on, not just by whether they win or lose.

A martial artist can be one without ever fighting.
A fighter, by definition, cannot be a fighter without fighting.

"A martial artist can exist in principle, in practice, and in path.
A fighter exists only in action."

This distinction is most evident in how people are introduced today:
Modern fighters are typically introduced by name, not by style.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

What kind of weapon?

木剑 Hardwood Bokken training samurai sword was commonly used which was easily to obtain in Taiwan back then.

I don't believe the low leg roundhouse kick should be scored. In a Dallas Kung Fu tournament, I argued with a judge (I was a judge myself in that tournament too). I let him use low leg roundhouse kick on me over and over. Every time I turned my shin bone into it. His kick hurt his leg more than hurting my leg. He finally gave up. But they still added in that rule into that Kung Fu tournament - below the knee roundhouse kick earn 1 point.

 

[windwalker099]

Hardwood Bokken training samurai sword was commonly used which was easily to obtain in Taiwan back then.

View attachment 33051

Interesting

Couple of years back, living in my mother-in-law's house late at night I saw a group of guys with small baseball bats, totally destroying somebody's car. I guess they had a beef with him.
Also noted a road rage incident, the guy pulled out a small baseball bat getting out of his car, to "talk" with the other driver...maybe a little less conspicuous to carry, then a Hardwood Bokken.

In Korea, many years ago, late 70s. They had what were called "slicky boys"
Typically teenagers that would rob houses and such.. one was caught by the local community men. They proceeded to beat this guy within an inch of his life, his mother came and begged for them to release her son.

Koreans, tend to be clannish, and rough... not people you wanna mess around with.

Guess he learned a lesson....

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Couple of years back, living in my mother-in-law's house late at night I saw a group of guys with small baseball bats,

Back in China in my father's time, people used to carry 梭镖. It can be use for:

- dagger or short knife.
- throwing knife.
- spear (if attached on a stick).

It was a very useful weapon when traveling if firearm was not available.