Netherlands to Replace Car Taxes with Distance Charges

[Bill Mattocks]

This is another one of those things that I occasionally disagree with the libertarians on. Taxes based on actual use sound good - if you don't use it, you don't have to pay for it. However, if you are going to be taxed based on miles you actually drive, the government has to be able to track where you drive.

http://reason.org/blog/show/netherlands-to-replace-car-tax

I reported yesterday that the Netherlands is proposing to replace its vehicle taxes with a distance- based charge closer to a real user fee. Today, I found an English language explanation published by the Dutch government of the new approach that is well worth a quick read. Perhaps most notable is the argument that the new fee system is intended to make driving cheaper, not more expensive. The intent appears to move toward a new funding platform for road infrastructure rather than an instrument for reducing mobility.

The Netherlands says they have fixed that problem:

Privacy ensured

A GPS device, which will record the distance travelled as well as the time spent travelling and the journey made, will be installed in every vehicle. This device will send the information to a collection facility where invoices will be drafted. Before long, motorists will be able to choose a provider offering additional services via this device such as route navigation. The information which is sent via the device will be legally and technically protected. Only the motorist will have access to this information. The authorities will not have access to any journey details and will not be able to track any vehicles. So the privacy of road users will be guaranteed.

"Legally protected?" Not in the USA, not for long. Right now, police are able to access such things as 'smart card' toll road databases to track suspects in crimes. There will be no reason to presume that they will not also want access to this database, and they'll get it, under the Patriot Act or something like it. And it might do some good, too! But it will be open to potential abuse, and where there is the potential, the abuse will eventually make its appearance.


I know the libertarians love this notion long time, but not me. Not on this one.

 

[Tez3]

As every town and village in the Netherlands is only a few miles away from each other the government will make a big loss lol!

 

[Bill Mattocks]

As every town and village in the Netherlands is only a few miles away from each other the government will make a big loss lol!

It's another of those taxes that is supposed to raise money, but at the same time, encourage a specific behavior. Like huge taxes on cigarettes because the government wants people to stop smoking. So if they actually do stop smoking, then the tax revenue goes down. Duh.

Wait until they start simply doing the math and discovering that they can legally prove that a person must have been speeding based on how long it takes them to show up in B after leaving A. Instant speeding ticket revenue - no speed cameras or motorcycle cops required! Just simple math - if you got from A to B in such-and-such a time, you were speeding, argue with Einstein if you have a problem with it.

 

[Omar B]

Invasion of privacy aside, it might up the usage of public transport. But payign to use your own car is pretty bad, after all, we are already paying for gas.

 

[Tez3]

The Dutch are very sensible creatures, they will sort things out with their usual flair for compromise, I've spent a lot of time there and have no doubt good sense will win out, it always does there.
You can work out how much tax you pay for your car here, different types of car have different taxes. Can be cheap or can be expensive.
http://www.belastingdienst.nl/reken/motorrijtuigenbelasting/

helps if you can read Dutch lol!

 

[Tez3]

Invasion of privacy aside, it might up the usage of public transport. But payign to use your own car is pretty bad, after all, we are already paying for gas.

Who pays for your road upkeep, the motorway maintainance, road signs, gritters when weather is bad, lights on roads, building new roads and motorways that sort of thing? Over here car taxes do.

 

[cdunn]

Who pays for your road upkeep, the motorway maintainance, road signs, gritters when weather is bad, lights on roads, building new roads and motorways that sort of thing? Over here car taxes do.

Theoretically, this is what we pay gasoline taxes for. So, we already pay in direct proportion to the miles we drive, with a relative modifier for the likely wear-and-tear our vehicles cause on the road.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

California and Oregon are already looking into this.

GPS systems already been used to beat charges.

And, courts are already using their data to determine guilt.

I disagree strongly with any metering in travel, as it restricts the poor from their right to travel.

 

[cdunn]

Gasoline taxes, toll roads, registration fees, and the price of vehicles also restrict the right of the poor to travel. Crumbling roads restrict the right of everyone to travel.

 

[Bruno@MT]

I disagree strongly with any metering in travel, as it restricts the poor from their right to travel.

They have a right to travel, not a right to be able to drive a car.
I mean it's not that I don't agree with you on this, but if one is going to be black and white about other parts of the consitution such as the first or second amendement, a similar stance should apply to your logic here.
As long as the government does not forbid to you travel off the federal / state owned roads (depending on which government we are talking about), they obey the constitutional requirements to unhindred travel, or however it is phrased.

Following your reasoning, the general welfare cause could be used to argue the very things you object to, like government subsidized healthcare.

Just saying...

 

[Rich Parsons]

This is another one of those things that I occasionally disagree with the libertarians on. Taxes based on actual use sound good - if you don't use it, you don't have to pay for it. However, if you are going to be taxed based on miles you actually drive, the government has to be able to track where you drive.

http://reason.org/blog/show/netherlands-to-replace-car-tax




The Netherlands says they have fixed that problem:

Privacy ensured



"Legally protected?" Not in the USA, not for long. Right now, police are able to access such things as 'smart card' toll road databases to track suspects in crimes. There will be no reason to presume that they will not also want access to this database, and they'll get it, under the Patriot Act or something like it. And it might do some good, too! But it will be open to potential abuse, and where there is the potential, the abuse will eventually make its appearance.


I know the libertarians love this notion long time, but not me. Not on this one.

I wonder what they would say if they had to implement it accros Europe and Asia both ofr dealing with size and distance.

I wonder what they would say if they had a murder case and they just needed to prove that so and so was lying about where they were and oops look here his GPS printout is just lying on the floor let pick this up, oh wait look it says he was within a block of the murder and not where he said. Go Get him.

No personally I do not like Murderers nor defending them, but I also do not like the invasion. If I had lived my whole life in such an environemnt maybe I would have a different opinion, but I think it would not fly on large scales nor would it fly in the US culture.

But, if you said National Security then it is not an issue of would it fly, but how fast they could have it implemented.