Naihanchi Chodan, Brachial Plexus strikes, and the similarities and differences in TSD

[Makalakumu]

This video os an old video of Taika Oyata doing naihanchi chodan.

Our form is pretty darn close to this. Most of our stances are the same, but some the timing regarding the hand movements is off. Anyway, we still share lots of applications in common.

This next video is of Oyata Sensei demonstrating some of the applications from Naihanchi Chodan. Note that he is striking the Brachial Plexus and note what happens to his uke.

By the way, all of these applications come right from Naihanchi Chodan.

 

[JT_the_Ninja]

Very good video; good to find out some more stuff I can see into our hyung.

 

[Makalakumu]

I wonder if he is hurting his ukes by striking them like that?

 

[JT_the_Ninja]

Hey, no pain, no gain...my instructor routinely implements that policy in class...on me.

 

[MBuzzy]

Looks like an insurance case waiting to happen. I'd be scared to own a MA school now - too high a chance of being sued for normal stuff.

 

[Chizikunbo]

I wonder if he is hurting his ukes by striking them like that?

Not really...my teacher(s) studied with Taika for over 20 years and are still quite healthy. Taika's art is about life protection...wouldn't be good to hurt your uke, especially long time students like Kyoshi Polander. With that said, you cannot replicate or even attempt to replicate many of these things without having felt that basic effects of it all, especially some of the vital point stuff...

take care,
--josh

 

[exile]

UpN, is it absolutely certain that that second vid, the applications one, wasn't scripted?

 

[Makalakumu]

UpN, is it absolutely certain that that second vid, the applications one, wasn't scripted?

No I am not and that is one of the reasons I would like to at least go to a seminar with the man. I'd like to experience that for myself.

 

[exile]

No I am not and that is one of the reasons I would like to at least go to a seminar with the man. I'd like to experience that for myself.

Yes—it does make you curious what's actually happening there.

What I was thinking was, I can well believe that a very hard, very focused strike to the brachial plexus could incapacitate you, maybe stun you or even knock you out. But for that very reason, the demonstration might have involved a deliberately withholding of maximum power, with uke behaving as though that power had been delivered. It's not exactly cheating... when Milli Vanili lip-synchs, it's a scam, but when a singer lip-synchs to her own voice, it's a bit different. The advantage of the scenario that I'm suggesting is the one that Craig brought up—liability. If a hard strike to a certain place could be severely damaging, maybe you don't really want to do it... but you do want to, um, illustrate how the strike would work and what would happen. I myself don't see it as totally deceptive...

 

[Makalakumu]

I've heard that Oyata, in his later years, took it a lot easier on his ukes then he did when he was younger. I can tell you that I've been knocked out by one of these strikes. I can't tell you how I went down, but I do know that I was blacked out...like I have been when choked out.

Anyway, I guess I would agree that it's not totally deceptive if you have actually performed the technique.

 

[Chizikunbo]

I've heard that Oyata, in his later years, took it a lot easier on his ukes then he did when he was younger. I can tell you that I've been knocked out by one of these strikes. I can't tell you how I went down, but I do know that I was blacked out...like I have been when choked out.

Anyway, I guess I would agree that it's not totally deceptive if you have actually performed the technique.

Well I would say that they are not scripted...That video was taken during the Ryu Te festival, which is a Ryu Te event, for Ryu Te Renmei members...not just an "open seminar". It would not make much sense to script for your own people IMHO. This stuff is way different from what Dillman and his folks are doing. As Taika likes to say "No Hurt, No Go Down". I know for a fact that those techniques can work with only a slight touch, I have had it done to me a couple times, and it really just comes on quite fast, though it gives me a bit of a headache afterward. One of the main elements in these techniques, as I have come to understand them is surprise. For instance if you walk over to your kitchen table, and kick it, your not hurt. Now if you walk over, in the middle of the night, and stub your toe, we all know that hurts like crazy. You may notice that Taika is delivering his seminar, and then suddenly...BAM there is the technique... Its not now you stand there...get ready, get ready...now I'm going to hit you...he is demoing his true art...Taika has not need to disguise his technique, or make it look flashy...as stated in Kyoshi Steve Stark's book "Quest: The Ancient Way, My Life Experience With Taika Oyata" where Kyoshi relates a lesson Taika taught him back in the '70's "my technique no look pretty, but work"...its all about the true art of life protection, and as the Dojo Kun of Ryu Te states "1)Strive for Good Moral Character; 2)Keep an Honest and Sincere Way..." it would not be honest nor sincere to teach anything other than the truth, and faking a strike is not the truth ;-)

FWIW,
--josh