Mystry Japanese Martial Art

[opr1945]

When I was in the service, about 60 years ago, I worked with a fellow serviceman who earlier was stationed in Japan for several years. He was always geabbing someones finger hand arm etc and bending, twisting, pressuring it in such a way that it hurt a lot and made you compliant with him. One day he brought in a document in Japanese that he claimed was his black belt certification in some martial art. I asked him about it, he told me the name of the style, which I do not remember and is my question. Part of his response to my question was that he said Judeo was tossing and throwing, Karate wa hitting and brakeing, and his art was twisting and mangling. Anyone have a guess as to what his style might have been? Not much to go on I know. But, thanks.

 

[isshinryuronin]

You're talking a long time back, but a few years after that, to the best of my fading memory of MA trivia, I seem to remember hearing/reading of such a Japanese art. Can't recall any detail, but it may have been a specialized koryu dating from back in the late Samurai days.

Old style jiu-jutsu can be described this way as well.

As far as Chinese arts go, there is qin'na that fits your description. It's an entire art based on compound joint locks, very sophisticated. A very basic version was taught to the Red Chinese police in Beijing. Imagine a crazed, genius, sadistic chiropractor on drugs experimenting on what he can do to the human body when he's in a bad mood.

These are the three possibilities I can up with, none of which may be the one you're looking for.

 

[opr1945]

He was in Japan in the late 50's and he obtained a Japanese Flag while there (white with red sun). In early 60's he returned to the states where I served with him. He passed it on to me when he left for a diferent station. When I got out we had a new guy of Japanese heritage. I passed it on to him. He was excited to get it. not related but one of two memories I had of him, other was minor pain he regularily casued me.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

When I was in the service, about 60 years ago, I worked with a fellow serviceman who earlier was stationed in Japan for several years. He was always geabbing someones finger hand arm etc and bending, twisting, pressuring it in such a way that it hurt a lot and made you compliant with him. One day he brought in a document in Japanese that he claimed was his black belt certification in some martial art. I asked him about it, he told me the name of the style, which I do not remember and is my question. Part of his response to my question was that he said Judeo was tossing and throwing, Karate wa hitting and brakeing, and his art was twisting and mangling. Anyone have a guess as to what his style might have been? Not much to go on I know. But, thanks.

What you are describing sounds like tuite to me, but I am not aware of that as a stand-alone martial art. It's basically the kind of hand movements you are describing.

I did find an art that is called Tuite Jutsu. I have no knowlege of it, just Googled and there it was.

Tuite Jutsu

Fargo karate instructors at the Hidden Teachings / Shinkenkan dojo

www.hiddenteachings.com

 

[isshinryuronin]

What you are describing sounds like tuite to me, but I am not aware of that as a stand-alone martial art. It's basically the kind of hand movements you are describing.

I did find an art that is called Tuite Jutsu. I have no knowlege of it, just Googled and there it was.

Tuite Jutsu

Fargo karate instructors at the Hidden Teachings / Shinkenkan dojo

www.hiddenteachings.com

Can't recall any detail, but it may have been a specialized koryu dating from back in the late Samurai days.

Doing a little research on Google it appears my old memory was correct, though I didn't know it was called tuite, a term I'm very familiar with, and was used for non-lethal apprehensions through pain compliance. It is similar to the Japanese word "torite/toride." There may/may not be some shade of difference but I'll treat them as the same.

Tuite/tuide/tuidi is an integral part of Okinawan karate, but I don't know whether it came from this old art (which predates karate) or whether it evolved separately as a part of the original Okinawan te (which also predates karate} and share the same descriptive name. It's now a general term referring to controlling the opponent's arm/hand and includes grabbing, twisting, pulling and locking and even throwing (each of these classes of techniques have their own names).

Itosu wrote in 1908, "Observe the principles of torite and (kata) applications will be more easily understood." This reinforces the idea that Okinawan karate is a close-in grabbing/striking art. If you only look at kata from a striking perspective, some moves seem confusing. Looking at those moves from a grabbing and man-handling perspective they make more sense. In fact, Mitani Kazuya, a student of Kinjo Hiroshi, writes that, "Kumite and tuite are both the same," so intertwined is grabbing and striking in Okinawan fighting style.

We still don't know for sure if this is opr1945's "mystery" art, but it's a good possibility.

 

[hoshin1600]

Was he stationed on mainland Japan or Okinawa? Did it look anything like karate?
Karate has been on the mainland since the 30's. Getting a black belt in those days was very rare for an American. Some styles did not even have ranks yet. 1958 seems to be a popular year for the first Americans to be granted shodan.
If your teacher trained on the main land and the style has okinawan kata then most likely it was Wado Ryu. Which has a significant amount of jiu- jitsu in it.
To my knowledge Toute or early Okinawan Ti did not have ranks.

 

[Dirty Dog]

I attended a couple of seminars with Taika Oyata. Interesting stuff. Excellent for small joint manipulation and pressure points. Sadly, George Dillman has done far too good a job of presenting it as magic and totally discrediting the principles involved.

 

[opr1945]

I don't know where he was stationed in Japaqn. It would have been 1955-60 period. and he was there for several years. He told me that Japanese martial arts were divided into 3 styles Karate, Judo and the third, which I can't remember the name of. He had a scroll, written in Japanese about 9" x 18" certifying his status. I asked him to read it to me and he said he couldn't. Because it was hand written by an old Japenese man whose writting was bad. My friend could read and write Japanese, basically not fluently.

 

[opr1945]

Went to facebook and found 3 people with his name, maybe one will turn out to be him.........

 

[opr1945]

I went on facebook and searched for my frieds name and found his grandson. same name. My friend died in 2013. His grandson said he would ask his father about grandpa Martial Arts experience. He has pictures of his grandpa doinf some style of martial art. maybe more later.

 

[gyoja]

I went on facebook and searched for my frieds name and found his grandson. same name. My friend died in 2013. His grandson said he would ask his father about grandpa Martial Arts experience. He has pictures of his grandpa doinf some style of martial art. maybe more later.

Cool. Keep us updated!

 

[opr1945]

Turns out he was a 2d BB in Aikido.

 

[opr1945]

He was stationed in the city of Okinawa, in Okinawa Prefecture, Japan, at Kadena Air Base. Have been talking to his son and grandson. facbook (internet) is amazing.

Aikido makes sense.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

He was stationed in the city of Okinawa, in Okinawa Prefecture, Japan, at Kadena Air Base. Have been talking to his son and grandson. facbook (internet) is amazing.

Aikido makes sense.

I've spent time at Kadena, 1983. Great base. I was next door at Camp Butler.

 

[opr1945]

For 60 years I have been wondering what he trained in. Now I know, Thanks for causing this to happen.

 

[isshinryuronin]

his art was twisting and mangling

Turns out he was a 2d BB in Aikido.

These quotes do not seem to be in harmony with each other. I can't imagine an aikido practitioner describing his art as "twisting and mangling," but you led us on a merry ride in confusing directions until you got to your final destination. Nevertheless, as we poked through the woods we discovered some new TMA knowledge along the way. All in all, a nice journey.

 

[opr1945]

Did the best with what my memory had.

 

[punisher73]

These quotes do not seem to be in harmony with each other. I can't imagine an aikido practitioner describing his art as "twisting and mangling," but you led us on a merry ride in confusing directions until you got to your final destination. Nevertheless, as we poked through the woods we discovered some new TMA knowledge along the way. All in all, a nice journey.

I can see that description fitting especially if you throw in a language barrier and are focusing on the physical aspect of the art. Especially with the ikko-gokyo series of techniques.

 

[Taiji Rebel]

I can see that description fitting especially if you throw in a language barrier and are focusing on the physical aspect of the art. Especially with the ikko-gokyo series of techniques.

One of my aikido teachers taught us to go hard in reality. Pre-war aikido was the model our classes adhered to. Our dojo's ethos was Harmony or Else. Aikido often gets a bad rap due to the Californian hippy inspired model we see and hear nowadays. Our dojo had a small number of students and most of those were already high-level martial artists from Judo, Kyokushin, Shotokan and Sambo. There were also a couple ex Royal Marines who liked to bring in tips and tricks they learned from unarmed combat programmes whilst serving. Sometimes we had potential members seeking out the spiritual based aikido, but they didn't stay too long - old school aikido could definitely be described as a twisting and mangling art

 

[isshinryuronin]

old school aikido could definitely be described as a twisting and mangling art

I knew there was something about aikido that I liked.