Flying Crane
Sr. Grandmaster
I am interested in getting people's thoughts on how kata (forms, poomse, however you want to call them) was taught to you, and how you feel it should be taught.
I am interested in this for a very specific reason. I recently read two books, Kata and the Transmission of Knowledge by Michael Rosenbaum, and The Way of Kata by Lawrence Kane and Kris Wilder. Actually, I am only about half way thru the latter, so my perspective may not be completely accurate based on their writing.
Anyway, the second book in particular claims to give the information needed to analyze kata from any system, and decode and uncover the hidden applications found within. The authors claim that if you understand certain principles, then you will know how to approach a more in-depth study of kata application.
I have personally found very little of value in what I have read so far. What they are holding out as Principles and Rules for analyzing kata, just doesn't seem very earth-shattering to me. And this has got me to thinking...
My first martial system was Tracy Kenpo. The kata found in this system, starting with Short Three, then Long Three, Long Four, Long Five, and Mass Attack (there are also kata numbers Six, Seven and Eight to my knowledge, but I never learned those so I cannot include them in my discussion) are all constructed with very specific self defense techniques. What I mean by this, for the many non-kenpo people out there, is not simple things like punch, block, kick, step, etc. Rather, the techniques are complex combinations of movements designed to defend against a specific type of attack. So for example, a defense against a punch would involve an evasion step, some kind of intecepting or blocking/guarding technique, and a series of counter attacks. The entire sequence of movements is part of one technique. These forms are made up of up to 15 or so of these SD techniques, usually done on both sides, with a transitional movement between them.
Before we learn the kata, we have already learned the SD technique by itself, and have practiced its application. The kata then becomes a way to catalogue the techniques for easy practice when you are by yourself and do not have someone to practice with.
Given this situation, in kenpo, we have a strong understanding of the application of all the movement within the katas. Of course pieces of movement can be reanalyzed and new applications can be derived, but a very strong application for the movements within the kata is taught from the beginning.
Now for a different perspective. When I was in college, I trained for a short time with a Tae Kwon Do group at the university. When I was being taught the kata, I asked the instructor about application of the movement. He was unable to give me any answer other than a very simple "well, this is a punch, and this is a block" kind of things. I asked him if the kata is teaching me to use the block and punch in any specific way, or against any specific type of attack, and he was unable to answer that.
Kenpo contains many many SD techniques, many of which are found within the katas, and many of which are not. In my opinion, it has too many SD techniques, and it is easy to get bogged down in them. However, on the plus side, having the experience of dealing with so many SD techniques, I think a Kenpo person has the ability to interpret movement and see applications in kata where other people may miss it. When my Wing Chun sifu was teaching me the sets from that system, there was a movement for which he confessed he did not know an application, and he is a 30+ year practitioner of the art. I was able to see an application almost immediately.
So from reading the two books, and from the experiences I have outlined above, my question is: How are kata taught in other systems? Are they taught as vague and abstract movement, or are concrete examples of useage ("bunkai", I believe it is referred to in Japanese systems) given when the movement is taught? If so, is it simple like the answers given to me by the TKD instructor above, or is it more in-depth to understand the movement and how it might be applied to a real attack?
Given the amount of discussion lately surrounding the value of kata, I can understand how people might get frustrated with kata if they are not taught a healthy understanding of how the movement can be applied. I can see where people would regard it as a boring and unneccesary exercise that is only very remotely related to combat at best.
So, please fire away. I would like to hear people's experiences, thoughts, and opinions.
Regards,
Michael
I am interested in this for a very specific reason. I recently read two books, Kata and the Transmission of Knowledge by Michael Rosenbaum, and The Way of Kata by Lawrence Kane and Kris Wilder. Actually, I am only about half way thru the latter, so my perspective may not be completely accurate based on their writing.
Anyway, the second book in particular claims to give the information needed to analyze kata from any system, and decode and uncover the hidden applications found within. The authors claim that if you understand certain principles, then you will know how to approach a more in-depth study of kata application.
I have personally found very little of value in what I have read so far. What they are holding out as Principles and Rules for analyzing kata, just doesn't seem very earth-shattering to me. And this has got me to thinking...
My first martial system was Tracy Kenpo. The kata found in this system, starting with Short Three, then Long Three, Long Four, Long Five, and Mass Attack (there are also kata numbers Six, Seven and Eight to my knowledge, but I never learned those so I cannot include them in my discussion) are all constructed with very specific self defense techniques. What I mean by this, for the many non-kenpo people out there, is not simple things like punch, block, kick, step, etc. Rather, the techniques are complex combinations of movements designed to defend against a specific type of attack. So for example, a defense against a punch would involve an evasion step, some kind of intecepting or blocking/guarding technique, and a series of counter attacks. The entire sequence of movements is part of one technique. These forms are made up of up to 15 or so of these SD techniques, usually done on both sides, with a transitional movement between them.
Before we learn the kata, we have already learned the SD technique by itself, and have practiced its application. The kata then becomes a way to catalogue the techniques for easy practice when you are by yourself and do not have someone to practice with.
Given this situation, in kenpo, we have a strong understanding of the application of all the movement within the katas. Of course pieces of movement can be reanalyzed and new applications can be derived, but a very strong application for the movements within the kata is taught from the beginning.
Now for a different perspective. When I was in college, I trained for a short time with a Tae Kwon Do group at the university. When I was being taught the kata, I asked the instructor about application of the movement. He was unable to give me any answer other than a very simple "well, this is a punch, and this is a block" kind of things. I asked him if the kata is teaching me to use the block and punch in any specific way, or against any specific type of attack, and he was unable to answer that.
Kenpo contains many many SD techniques, many of which are found within the katas, and many of which are not. In my opinion, it has too many SD techniques, and it is easy to get bogged down in them. However, on the plus side, having the experience of dealing with so many SD techniques, I think a Kenpo person has the ability to interpret movement and see applications in kata where other people may miss it. When my Wing Chun sifu was teaching me the sets from that system, there was a movement for which he confessed he did not know an application, and he is a 30+ year practitioner of the art. I was able to see an application almost immediately.
So from reading the two books, and from the experiences I have outlined above, my question is: How are kata taught in other systems? Are they taught as vague and abstract movement, or are concrete examples of useage ("bunkai", I believe it is referred to in Japanese systems) given when the movement is taught? If so, is it simple like the answers given to me by the TKD instructor above, or is it more in-depth to understand the movement and how it might be applied to a real attack?
Given the amount of discussion lately surrounding the value of kata, I can understand how people might get frustrated with kata if they are not taught a healthy understanding of how the movement can be applied. I can see where people would regard it as a boring and unneccesary exercise that is only very remotely related to combat at best.
So, please fire away. I would like to hear people's experiences, thoughts, and opinions.
Regards,
Michael