This term seems to appear in the name or organization of TKD, Soo Bahk Do, Tang Soo Do, and possibly other Korean systems, as well as on its own. What exactly does it mean or represent? I always thought it was a TKD substyle.
Moo Duk Kwan?
- Thread starter arnisador
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S
Shinzu
Guest
moo duk kwan literally means "school of martial virtue" it was developed by grandmaster hwang kee
S
Shinzu
Guest
there are many different aspects of moo duk kwan. some masters have broken away from hwang kee's teachings but still call it moo duk kwan.
it is more of a system. tang soo do is the art but there are other sub styles that follow the moo duk kwan such as soo Bahk do, soo bahk ti, tang soo ki.
moo duk kwan is the system that grandmaster hwang kee developed to unite all tang soo do practitioners, so i wouldn't say it was "governing", but more an organization like other federations.
it is more of a system. tang soo do is the art but there are other sub styles that follow the moo duk kwan such as soo Bahk do, soo bahk ti, tang soo ki.
moo duk kwan is the system that grandmaster hwang kee developed to unite all tang soo do practitioners, so i wouldn't say it was "governing", but more an organization like other federations.
Z
Zeke
Guest
There is both a Moo Duk Kwan Tang Soo Do and a Moo Duk Kwan Taekwondo. In the begining Hwang Kee's Tang Soo Do style was a part of the styles that later became Taekwondo.
1960 saw the Korean Tang Soo Do association and the Soo Bahk Do association join forces and became one organisation( the Korean Tang Soo Do Soo Bahk Do association) lead by Hwang Kee to this day. This was for some years the leading organisation of the styles that would later became the taekwondo style. When General Choi started the International Taekwondo Federation in 1955 Hwang Kee refused to change his style to ITF-Taekwondo and pulled away. Most of his black belt students first went with him , but later when the Korean govement started to send TKD-instructors out to the whole wide world it was only the instructors that was members of the ITF that was allowed to travel out of Korean .
So many of Hwang Kee's black belt instructors did join the ITF and those instructors are the ones that use (or at least started the use of. ) of Moo Duk Kwan Taekwondo.
Take care
Zeke
:asian:
1960 saw the Korean Tang Soo Do association and the Soo Bahk Do association join forces and became one organisation( the Korean Tang Soo Do Soo Bahk Do association) lead by Hwang Kee to this day. This was for some years the leading organisation of the styles that would later became the taekwondo style. When General Choi started the International Taekwondo Federation in 1955 Hwang Kee refused to change his style to ITF-Taekwondo and pulled away. Most of his black belt students first went with him , but later when the Korean govement started to send TKD-instructors out to the whole wide world it was only the instructors that was members of the ITF that was allowed to travel out of Korean .
So many of Hwang Kee's black belt instructors did join the ITF and those instructors are the ones that use (or at least started the use of. ) of Moo Duk Kwan Taekwondo.
Take care
Zeke
:asian:
S
Shinzu
Guest
thanx for the knowledge zeke. i am not too familiar with taekwondo but i am always up for learning something about everything
Z
Zeke
Guest
That's the way to learn
The only reason I know is because my first instructor - Master Choi Kyoung An - took that road . So I gained my first black belt in both Tang Soo Do and ITF-Taekwondo , and even though the Danish TKD Federation later started doing the WTF-Taekwondo style, I have always been gratefull that I've had a dual background in styles that are more martial arts than martial sports.
Take care
Zeke
The only reason I know is because my first instructor - Master Choi Kyoung An - took that road . So I gained my first black belt in both Tang Soo Do and ITF-Taekwondo , and even though the Danish TKD Federation later started doing the WTF-Taekwondo style, I have always been gratefull that I've had a dual background in styles that are more martial arts than martial sports.
Take care
Zeke
S
Shinzu
Guest
i happened upon the MDK by accident. i was studing shotokan in new york and when i moved to pa there were no japanese schools to be found.
someone had suggested tang soo do and to my surprise it was very similar to shotokan. so here i am three years later and alot wiser and knowledgeable about my style and the martial arts.
i don't regret it at all. i love the art i study and am grateful for the instructors who have helped me in the past and present.
someone had suggested tang soo do and to my surprise it was very similar to shotokan. so here i am three years later and alot wiser and knowledgeable about my style and the martial arts.
i don't regret it at all. i love the art i study and am grateful for the instructors who have helped me in the past and present.
S
Shinzu
Guest
well they are amost exactly the same if you can believe it. TSD's kicks differ in that they are much higher. shotokan's stances are lower and there are more "slower focus" movements during their forms.
TSD has better weapons forms from what i can see. i'm not sure which i like better or which is the better style. i was taught shotokan originally and i think i would still be in it if there was a school near by. but then again i do love TSD so i would be missing a big part there. i guess the experience with both styles has been a blessing for me.
i would say they are both excellent styles with much knowledge to gain from each.
T
TangSooGuy
Guest
From whatI understand, what has been posted in this thread is all pretty accurate.
Just to add:
Originally, as with all the Kwans, the Moo Duk Kwan (Martial Virtue Institute) referred to a school, or was used as the collective group of schools under Hwang Kee.
It was meant to be used as the name of the place, not the style.
At that time, the style names between the Kwans varied, but the Moo Duk Kwan practiced what today is Tang Soo Do. (the names Soo Bahk Do and Soo Bahk Ki were also used.)
Moo Duk Kwan has evolved today to become the name of a style, but originally it was the name of a school. So any system using Moo Duk Kwan today can in some way trace its roots back to Hwang Kee.
Just to add:
Originally, as with all the Kwans, the Moo Duk Kwan (Martial Virtue Institute) referred to a school, or was used as the collective group of schools under Hwang Kee.
It was meant to be used as the name of the place, not the style.
At that time, the style names between the Kwans varied, but the Moo Duk Kwan practiced what today is Tang Soo Do. (the names Soo Bahk Do and Soo Bahk Ki were also used.)
Moo Duk Kwan has evolved today to become the name of a style, but originally it was the name of a school. So any system using Moo Duk Kwan today can in some way trace its roots back to Hwang Kee.
T
TangSooGuy
Guest
Good question- arguments could probably made for both.
For the most part. TSD and Moo Duk Kwan are used interchangably in the circles I have been in.
However, just as TKD and TSD, Hwa Rang Do, Soo Bahk Do, etc, have evolved into different styles, there would surely be some out there who claim Moo Duk Kwan as a separate style.
To me, it is hard to justify this, however, since Hwang kee founded both modern Tang Soo Do and the Moo Duk Kwan.
Therefore, most often when Moo Duk Kwan is referred to as the name of an art, it is Tang Soo Do.
There are some stylists who have said that Moo Duk Kwan is going back to the "roots" of Tang Soo Do, but i'm not sure exactly what that means.
To say Moo Duk Kwan is a substyle of TSD is not entirely accurate, but neither is calling it a separate system.
Well, I've managed to confuse myself.
Ok, back on track- If I were to try to classify it, I would say that MDK is a SYSTEM of TSD.
To me, each organization develops its own system of training in the art, but this doesn't make it a different art.
I hope that makes sense, sometimes I talk myself in circles when I'm typing. I'm glad I'm more coherent in front of a class
For the most part. TSD and Moo Duk Kwan are used interchangably in the circles I have been in.
However, just as TKD and TSD, Hwa Rang Do, Soo Bahk Do, etc, have evolved into different styles, there would surely be some out there who claim Moo Duk Kwan as a separate style.
To me, it is hard to justify this, however, since Hwang kee founded both modern Tang Soo Do and the Moo Duk Kwan.
Therefore, most often when Moo Duk Kwan is referred to as the name of an art, it is Tang Soo Do.
There are some stylists who have said that Moo Duk Kwan is going back to the "roots" of Tang Soo Do, but i'm not sure exactly what that means.
To say Moo Duk Kwan is a substyle of TSD is not entirely accurate, but neither is calling it a separate system.
Well, I've managed to confuse myself.
Ok, back on track- If I were to try to classify it, I would say that MDK is a SYSTEM of TSD.
To me, each organization develops its own system of training in the art, but this doesn't make it a different art.
I hope that makes sense, sometimes I talk myself in circles when I'm typing. I'm glad I'm more coherent in front of a class
S
Shinzu
Guest
the reason people say this is because TSD traces it's roots back to hwang kee, who created the MDK. some schools do not follow the teachings of hwang kee, therefore seperating themselves from the MDK.
this is why some schools choose the midnight blue belt and others choose the black. hwang kee developed the midnight blue belt to separate the MDK from the "normal" black belt use.
Z
Zeke
Guest
I do agree with what has been said so far in this thread. Regarding the names of the schools and styles here is a little more infomation
When the Japanese pulled out of Korea - August 1945 - there were 5 major schools (Kwans) in Korea:
1.) Moo Duk Kwan in Seoul , lead by Hwang Kee
2.) Yon Moo Kwan in Seoul , lead by Chun Sang Sup
3.) YMCA Kwon Pup in Seoul , lead by Pyong In Yuk
4.) Chung Do Kwan in Seoul , lead by Won Kuk Lee
5.) Song Moo Kwan in Kai Sung , lead by No Byong Jik
These were schools not styles, that could be said to be in the "Karate-family" for lag of a better word . Of course Korea had other styles of martial arts , but these were the ones that both TSD and TKD were to use as their fundation. Taekwondo has even gone so far as saying that the art of Taekwondo is build on (these) 5 arts.
By the start of the Korea war (June 1950) more schools and Styles/organisation had come foreward. This is a list of the major ones:
1.)The school of Moo Duk Kwan who did the style of Moo Duk Kwan ,although Hwang Kee by now had started to call the style Tang Soo Do - the china hand - in homage to where he did learn the base of his style (And no it's not chinese in its foundation, but thats another story )
2.)The school of Ji Do Kwan who did the style(s) of Ji Do Kwan , Yon Moo Kwan and Han Moo Kwan
3.)The school of Chang Moo Kwan who did the style(s) of Kang Duk Won , Kang Moo Kwan and Cheong Do Kwan
4.)The school of Chung Do Kwan who did the style(s) of Chong Do Kwan , Choong Kyong Kwan , Kuk Moo Kwan and O Do Kwan
5.) The school of Song Moo Kwan who did the style of Song Moo Kwan .
Now when I say School I mean Style and/or federation depending on the number of styles being practised and they all had at least some comon ground with the japanese/okinawa karate styles in the way they did their basics .
Hope this helps.
Take care
Zeke
:asian:
When the Japanese pulled out of Korea - August 1945 - there were 5 major schools (Kwans) in Korea:
1.) Moo Duk Kwan in Seoul , lead by Hwang Kee
2.) Yon Moo Kwan in Seoul , lead by Chun Sang Sup
3.) YMCA Kwon Pup in Seoul , lead by Pyong In Yuk
4.) Chung Do Kwan in Seoul , lead by Won Kuk Lee
5.) Song Moo Kwan in Kai Sung , lead by No Byong Jik
These were schools not styles, that could be said to be in the "Karate-family" for lag of a better word . Of course Korea had other styles of martial arts , but these were the ones that both TSD and TKD were to use as their fundation. Taekwondo has even gone so far as saying that the art of Taekwondo is build on (these) 5 arts.
By the start of the Korea war (June 1950) more schools and Styles/organisation had come foreward. This is a list of the major ones:
1.)The school of Moo Duk Kwan who did the style of Moo Duk Kwan ,although Hwang Kee by now had started to call the style Tang Soo Do - the china hand - in homage to where he did learn the base of his style (And no it's not chinese in its foundation, but thats another story
)2.)The school of Ji Do Kwan who did the style(s) of Ji Do Kwan , Yon Moo Kwan and Han Moo Kwan
3.)The school of Chang Moo Kwan who did the style(s) of Kang Duk Won , Kang Moo Kwan and Cheong Do Kwan
4.)The school of Chung Do Kwan who did the style(s) of Chong Do Kwan , Choong Kyong Kwan , Kuk Moo Kwan and O Do Kwan
5.) The school of Song Moo Kwan who did the style of Song Moo Kwan .
Now when I say School I mean Style and/or federation depending on the number of styles being practised and they all had at least some comon ground with the japanese/okinawa karate styles in the way they did their basics .
Hope this helps.
Take care
Zeke
:asian:
S
Shinzu
Guest
excellent info zeke. thanx!
karatekid1975
Master Black Belt
Shinzu,
This might be slightly off topic, but here goes:
I noticed that you took Shotokan in NY. Where abouts did you live/take Shotokan?
Anyway, I am the opposite of you. I started in TSD in NJ, but I moved to NY (Rochester area). There's no TSD schools here (bummer).
I'm looking to join a Shotokan school (since I found out that it's very similar to TSD). What do you think?
This might be slightly off topic, but here goes:
I noticed that you took Shotokan in NY. Where abouts did you live/take Shotokan?
Anyway, I am the opposite of you. I started in TSD in NJ, but I moved to NY (Rochester area). There's no TSD schools here (bummer).
I'm looking to join a Shotokan school (since I found out that it's very similar to TSD). What do you think?
S
Shinzu
Guest
hey karatekid
i think shotokan is the best "brother" style to TSD. if you are uable to find a TSD school, shotokan is your best bet. some of the forms have different names but they are all basically the same (with minor adjustments).
i trained in queens new york under sensei toyotaro miyazaki. i was with the u.s. shotokai.
what level are you in TSD?
i never realized they were so similar. in fact before i started TSD i never even heard of it. i was very pleased that i could continue to practice and study the art i love.
TANG SOO!
i think shotokan is the best "brother" style to TSD. if you are uable to find a TSD school, shotokan is your best bet. some of the forms have different names but they are all basically the same (with minor adjustments).
i trained in queens new york under sensei toyotaro miyazaki. i was with the u.s. shotokai.
what level are you in TSD?
i never realized they were so similar. in fact before i started TSD i never even heard of it. i was very pleased that i could continue to practice and study the art i love.
TANG SOO!
karatekid1975
Master Black Belt
Hiya Shinzu.
I got to 5th gup blue belt in TSD. My last form was Pyung ahn sam dan. I moved on the day of my brown belt test, so I never tested for it
I miss TSD.
Feel free to send a private message so we can talk TSD.
Laurie
I got to 5th gup blue belt in TSD. My last form was Pyung ahn sam dan. I moved on the day of my brown belt test, so I never tested for it
I miss TSD.
Feel free to send a private message so we can talk TSD.
Laurie
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