Minghe Quan / Ershiba Bu (Nipaipo)

[TenHands]

As a Karate practitioner who takes interest in learning the Chinese origins of my style, I have recently come across an extremely interesting link between Kung Fu and Karate: a routine known as 28 Steps (Ershiba Bu in Mandarin, Nipaipo in Japanese).

For those who are unaware, Karate kata are said to have come from Chinese taolu, but there are only about 5 or so patterns that can be directly traced to China. The ones I am aware of are Sanchin (Sanzhan), Seisan (Shi San Tai Bao), Suparinpei (Yibailing Ba), Papuren (Ba Bu Lien), and now apparently Nipaipo (Ershiba Bu). And the two styles that these patterns are said to come from are Xiang Dian Quan and Ming He Quan.

For the most part, the first four patterns are somewhat well-known and videos/documentation of them are quite plentiful. However, I have only recently became aware of the fifth one, Ershiba Bu, and it seems like there are much less videos regarding this pattern online.

Does anyone here practice this pattern, or know of any Ming He Quan schools in North America? I want to learn more about what this patterns teaches the student and, if possible, more about its history from anyone who might actually study it.

 

[clfsean]

As a Karate practitioner who takes interest in learning the Chinese origins of my style, I have recently come across an extremely interesting link between Kung Fu and Karate: a routine known as 28 Steps (Ershiba Bu in Mandarin, Nipaipo in Japanese).

For those who are unaware, Karate kata are said to have come from Chinese taolu, but there are only about 5 or so patterns that can be directly traced to China. The ones I am aware of are Sanchin (Sanzhan), Seisan (Shi San Tai Bao), Suparinpei (Yibailing Ba), Papuren (Ba Bu Lien), and now apparently Nipaipo (Ershiba Bu). And the two styles that these patterns are said to come from are Xiang Dian Quan and Ming He Quan.

For the most part, the first four patterns are somewhat well-known and videos/documentation of them are quite plentiful. However, I have only recently became aware of the fifth one, Ershiba Bu, and it seems like there are much less videos regarding this pattern online.

Does anyone here practice this pattern, or know of any Ming He Quan schools in North America? I want to learn more about what this patterns teaches the student and, if possible, more about its history from anyone who might actually study it.

I think (really not sure) Yang Jwing Ming's White Crane is Ming He from Taiwan. Lorne Bernard in Montreal is Feeding Crane but I'm not sure if they use that set or not. Shorthand Crane is passing knowledge at best for me.

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

I think (really not sure) Yang Jwing Ming's White Crane is Ming He from Taiwan. Lorne Bernard in Montreal is Feeding Crane but I'm not sure if they use that set or not. Shorthand Crane is passing knowledge at best for me.

Well if you have 90k to drop you can become his disciple. Dr. Yang has a school in Miranda, California. He also teaches a long fist style.

 

[clfsean]

Well if you have 90k to drop you can become his disciple. Dr. Yang has a school in Miranda, California. He also teaches a long fist style.

The Nanjing curriculum Shaolin (Ambush sets etc...) from Taiwan.

Otherwise, I'm good. I don't need 90k. My discipleship was significantly less than that.

 

[Xue Sheng]

I think (really not sure) Yang Jwing Ming's White Crane is Ming He from Taiwan. Lorne Bernard in Montreal is Feeding Crane but I'm not sure if they use that set or not. Shorthand Crane is passing knowledge at best for me.

All I can tell you is Yang Jwing Ming is not Southern White Crane, knew a southern Crane guy and it was entirely different...and he beat the tar out of me

Also this:
Dr. Yang, Jwing-Ming was born and raised in Taiwan, Republic of China. He began his extensive martial arts training at the age of 15, under his White Crane (Bái Hè 白鶴) master, Grandmaster Cheng, Gin-Gsao.

 

[clfsean]

All I can tell you is Yang Jwing Ming is not Southern White Crane, knew a southern Crane guy and it was entirely different...and he beat the tar out of me

Also this:
Dr. Yang, Jwing-Ming was born and raised in Taiwan, Republic of China. He began his extensive martial arts training at the age of 15, under his White Crane (Bái Hè 白鶴) master, Grandmaster Cheng, Gin-Gsao.

The Taiwanese Ming He isn't like the stuff from Fujian and Malaysia. It's different. You can watch his White Crane and look at others. It's a family thing, but not necessarily a closely related thing to everything else.

And it's COMPLETELY different than what Flying Crane / me do coming from Si Ji Hao / Lama Pai / Haap Ga / Tibetan White Crane.

 

[Xue Sheng]

The Taiwanese Ming He isn't like the stuff from Fujian and Malaysia. It's different. You can watch his White Crane and look at others. It's a family thing, but not necessarily a closely related thing to everything else.

And it's COMPLETELY different than what Flying Crane / me do coming from Si Ji Hao / Lama Pai / Haap Ga / Tibetan White Crane.

Thanks, I figured.

I've seen his stuff, almost went and trained his Shaolin White Crane Hard and Soft Qigong stuff with him several years ago, when he was still in Boston. I know it was very different than the Southern stuff that I saw (and got pummeled by) and I believe at one point @Flying Crane told me about the difference between what Yang did and what he did.

Also not sure you can get, or if he even knows the exact origin of his White crane, based on his original claim that his Yang style came from Yang Banhou, only to have his teacher come out and say it was from Yang Chengfu

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

Thanks, I figured.

I've seen his stuff, almost went and trained his Shaolin White Crane Hard and Soft Qigong stuff with him several years ago, when he was still in Boston. I know it was very different than the Southern stuff that I saw (and got pummeled by) and I believe at one point @Flying Crane told me about the difference between what Yang did and what he did.

Also not sure you can get, or if he even knows the exact origin of his White crane, based on his original claim that his Yang style came from Yang Banhou, only to have his teacher come out and say it was from Yang Chengfu

I see where this is going, I have to agree completely. Although Dr. Yang is not old enough to have trained with Yang Chengfu. Sifu Woo attended a couple of Yang chengfu classes one year before Yang died. Sifu Woo was not complimentary about what he saw there.

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

The Nanjing curriculum Shaolin (Ambush sets etc...) from Taiwan.

Otherwise, I'm good. I don't need 90k. My discipleship was significantly less than that.

Are you teaching?

 

[clfsean]

Thanks, I figured.

I've seen his stuff, almost went and trained his Shaolin White Crane Hard and Soft Qigong stuff with him several years ago, when he was still in Boston. I know it was very different than the Southern stuff that I saw (and got pummeled by) and I believe at one point @Flying Crane told me about the difference between what Yang did and what he did.

Also not sure you can get, or if he even knows the exact origin of his White crane, based on his original claim that his Yang style came from Yang Banhou, only to have his teacher come out and say it was from Yang Chengfu

<-- not tai chi guy .... heheheh

 

[clfsean]

Are you teaching?

Currently? No. I'm finishing my training with my teacher here in Japan. When I get back to the States later this month I'll be setting up shop to teach what I have been authorized to get out to the public.

OOOOOHHHHHHH .... yeah, not in the Yang Jing Ming line of stuff. Sorry if my post read like that. I could see where it might. :O

 

[Flying Crane]

Currently? No. I'm finishing my training with my teacher here in Japan. When I get back to the States later this month I'll be setting up shop to teach what I have been authorized to get out to the public.

OOOOOHHHHHHH .... yeah, not in the Yang Jing Ming line of stuff. Sorry if my post read like that. I could see where it might. :O

What is it you are training in Japan?

 

[clfsean]

What is it you are training in Japan?

Ma Family Tongbei ... Baji, Pigua, Fanzi, Chuo Jiao, Tan Tui

I know, right? Northern stuff from a hardline Southerner ...

 

[Flying Crane]

Ma Family Tongbei ... Baji, Pigua, Fanzi, Chuo Jiao, Tan Tui

I know, right? Northern stuff from a hardline Southerner ...

You might have talked about this elsewhere so I apologize if I missed it. But how did you end up in Japan for this?

 

[clfsean]

You might have talked about this elsewhere so I apologize if I missed it. But how did you end up in Japan for this?

S'all good!!

I moved here a couple of years ago (right at the start of COVID actually) to help my wife care for her mom. While here & obviously looking around for MA stuff, nobody was open really. But this one guy (my teacher now) didn't close up shop for the pandemic and so I started training with him to just keep moving & going. Turns out it went well for me & I literally outpaced his local senior students except for one or two that are already elsewhere here in Japan teaching. That led to him inviting me to take his teaching program (finished that) and then being invited to baisi to get the "complete core of the system" which I finished yesterday. I've got a couple of supplemental sets to finish before heading back to the states at the end of the month.

 

[Flying Crane]

S'all good!!

I moved here a couple of years ago (right at the start of COVID actually) to help my wife care for her mom. While here & obviously looking around for MA stuff, nobody was open really. But this one guy (my teacher now) didn't close up shop for the pandemic and so I started training with him to just keep moving & going. Turns out it went well for me & I literally outpaced his local senior students except for one or two that are already elsewhere here in Japan teaching. That led to him inviting me to take his teaching program (finished that) and then being invited to baisi to get the "complete core of the system" which I finished yesterday. I've got a couple of supplemental sets to finish before heading back to the states at the end of the month.

Wow, it’s amazing how that fell together. Are you still training CLF and Lama?

 

[Xue Sheng]

Ma Family Tongbei ... Baji, Pigua, Fanzi, Chuo Jiao, Tan Tui

I know, right? Northern stuff from a hardline Southerner ...

BAJI!!!!
Now I'm jealous

 

[clfsean]

Wow, it’s amazing how that fell together. Are you still training CLF and Lama?

I am, but not as much. Since I'd have to train up a local training partner and during the lockdowns here, people were just not that enthused to be in public for the most part, it's slipped a little. But the long arms are still there!!!

 

[clfsean]

BAJI!!!!
Now I'm jealous

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

I am, but not as much. Since I'd have to train up a local training partner and during the lockdowns here, people were just not that enthused to be in public for the most part, it's slipped a little. But the long arms are still there!!!

Wihere will you be teaching? Bay area?