Mayor kicks Marines out of the city

michaeledward

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Did you notice that this news article did not name the current Chief of Police for Toledo, Ohio. The article neglected to name the single person, or committee responsible for approving the training in the City; instead only naming the 'former' Chief of Police, who authorized earlier visits.
 

Sukerkin

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Now I know that referring to David Icke as a source is only going to draw ribaldry and ridicule but he does have a point when he notes that allowing your armed forces to practise urban warfare tactics in your own cities is a bad idea.

I forget which one of his releases I saw it in but the footage wherein the American soldiers were being trained to ignore the cries of their own citizenry about civilian rights and the Constitution was quite chilling.
 

Bob Hubbard

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Berkeley to Marines: You're 'not welcome in our city'
# Story Highlights
# Berkeley, California, tells Marine recruiters they're "not welcome in our city"
# GOP lawmakers introduce bill to take $2 million in federal funds from city
# Protester says recruiters attract youth "to go to Iraq to kill and be killed"
# Veteran blasts City Council, says Marines are "the best thing we have"
http://edition.cnn.com/2008/US/02/07/berkeley.protests/
 

Makalakumu

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Whay can one really say

How about "yay for people exerting their democratic freedoms"? Disagree or not, I think that its a good thing that our constitution allows the citizens of this country the right to express and enforce opinions like this.

I'm sure the Marines can find another city where the populace would be much more supportive of their actions.
 

grydth

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Today at least we learned who'll be Secretary of Defense if Hellary is able to steal the convention from Obama.

What a supreme lawn sausage.
 

Makalakumu

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Okay, maybe its just me, but if people decide that they want no part in their homes and locales being used to train kids to go over to Iraq and kill, then what is the problem? Are they the ones who placed our soldiers in danger? Are they the ones who created the situation where the training was needed in the first place? Do people really think that folks that don't want the Marines conducting drills up and down the streets are endangering our soldiers lives?

This level of doublethink is absolutely terrifying. Think for one minute about audacity that this political spin is taking. It's not the commander in cheif's fault for ordering our soldiers into a war without end. It's not the congress' fault for voting for the authorization. It's the citizens fault for attempting to take a stand against it. It's the citizens fault for not falling in line and blindly supporting like every other god damned sheep.

I am absolutely dumbfounded right now. My god, my fellow citizens need to wake up and smell the constitution.
 

grydth

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Okay, maybe its just me, but if people decide that they want no part in their homes and locales being used to train kids to go over to Iraq and kill, then what is the problem? Are they the ones who placed our soldiers in danger? Are they the ones who created the situation where the training was needed in the first place? Do people really think that folks that don't want the Marines conducting drills up and down the streets are endangering our soldiers lives?

This level of doublethink is absolutely terrifying. Think for one minute about audacity that this political spin is taking. It's not the commander in cheif's fault for ordering our soldiers into a war without end. It's not the congress' fault for voting for the authorization. It's the citizens fault for attempting to take a stand against it. It's the citizens fault for not falling in line and blindly supporting like every other god damned sheep.

I am absolutely dumbfounded right now. My god, my fellow citizens need to wake up and smell the constitution.


There is no showing here that the last minute denial of the Marine unit's training was due to any popular uprising by the good citizens of Toledo. It is a fit of pique by one stupid man. there is no showing that peoples' homes were to be used in the exercise.

Had there been a popular movement and the Mayor previously announced a Marine Free Zone, or whatever, that would have been one thing. But to allow prior training and have this exercise approved by other officials - - - only to have it sabotaged as the unit is en route, that's just disgusting.

The need for urban warfare training is not limited to Marines nor was it caused by George Bush. I was trained in Urban Warfare tactics as an Army soldier in the 1980's.... decades before Iraq or George Bush the Lesser. It is simply training every soldier should have. I can understand being against the war, but denying service members training is simply being in favor of these Marines being killed.... which means being in favor of al-Qaeda.

I wonder how parents who've lost a child in Fallujah or Mosul or Baghdad views the mayor's fatuous comment about "playing war". This turd is of the same cloth as the "Reverend" Phelps.

I ain't smelling the Constitution in Mayor Finkbeiner's behavior, but rather something warm brown and steaming.
 
OP
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I can understand being against the war, but denying service members training is simply being in favor of these Marines being killed.... which means being in favor of al-Qaeda.

Yeah. That sounds about right.

The new age version of the "spitters in the airports" are amongst us.

I think many of the males suffer from low self-esteem and ego covered in self-rightesouness.

Lacking the spine, nerve and nads to stand up for anything they enjoy cutting down those who do to assuage themselves. Or study the martial arts as a salve for their flagging machismo.
 

arnisador

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I can understand being against the war, but denying service members training is simply being in favor of these Marines being killed....

There's a time and a place for everything. If Toledo is to be the place for a federal warfighting exercise, it should indeed require the consent of the city. It's easy to see how it could be disruptive.

which means being in favor of al-Qaeda.

That's simply ignorant.
 

grydth

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There's a time and a place for everything. If Toledo is to be the place for a federal warfighting exercise, it should indeed require the consent of the city. It's easy to see how it could be disruptive.



That's simply ignorant.

You might try reading the basic article yourself before applying "ignorant" to somebody else.

Fact is, the Marines had trained in that "place" four times before, and training for this "time" had been approved by the city police department and announced in a press release. Any inference that there is sneakiness or impropriety by the Marine unit here is, well, ignorant.

There can be ways of being against the war and dissenting without harming the troops who seek to fight it. This cheap political stunt interfered with training that is and has been a necessity for troops.

One other thing....Personally, I think splitting quotes of a person to attack them is a sleazy practice. But with only a doctorate degree, guess I'm just not smart enough to appreciate it.
 

CoryKS

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The mayors spokesperson, Brian Schwartz said, The mayor asked them to leave because they frighten people. He did not want them practicing and drilling in a highly visible area."

Hell, they could have done live-fire exercises in Toledo and nobody would have known the difference.
 

Makalakumu

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Yeah. That sounds about right.

The new age version of the "spitters in the airports" are amongst us.

I think many of the males suffer from low self-esteem and ego covered in self-rightesouness.

Lacking the spine, nerve and nads to stand up for anything they enjoy cutting down those who do to assuage themselves. Or study the martial arts as a salve for their flagging machismo.

Okay, so a person stands up for a deep seated belief and you say this?

Sounds like a programmed response...
 

Makalakumu

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There is no showing here that the last minute denial of the Marine unit's training was due to any popular uprising by the good citizens of Toledo. It is a fit of pique by one stupid man. there is no showing that peoples' homes were to be used in the exercise.

Had there been a popular movement and the Mayor previously announced a Marine Free Zone, or whatever, that would have been one thing. But to allow prior training and have this exercise approved by other officials - - - only to have it sabotaged as the unit is en route, that's just disgusting.

The need for urban warfare training is not limited to Marines nor was it caused by George Bush. I was trained in Urban Warfare tactics as an Army soldier in the 1980's.... decades before Iraq or George Bush the Lesser. It is simply training every soldier should have. I can understand being against the war, but denying service members training is simply being in favor of these Marines being killed.... which means being in favor of al-Qaeda.

I wonder how parents who've lost a child in Fallujah or Mosul or Baghdad views the mayor's fatuous comment about "playing war". This turd is of the same cloth as the "Reverend" Phelps.

I ain't smelling the Constitution in Mayor Finkbeiner's behavior, but rather something warm brown and steaming.

I disagree for the most part. I think we are seeing the tip of a gleaming shitberg where the public is going to start turning the on the military at every turn. It happened in the 60s and 70s because we couldn't pay for the guns and butter of the Vietnam war and it helped to drive our country into recession. It's happening now because because of the same reasons, except its a whole lot worse financially.

Our leaders, for the most part, are unresponsive to democracy and people are getting sick and tired of paying 50 cents out of every tax dollar to support something they consider wasteful and dangerous. So, I can completely understand where this mayor is coming from. People are getting sick of this war, sick of this tax burden, and sick of no "leader" listening to what they've got to say.

Like I said before, the marines can find a new city with people that still support what they are doing...for now.
 

michaeledward

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The new age version of the "spitters in the airports" are amongst us.

I suppose that it is a new age version, is good. Because the plain old Vietnam-Era version never happened. Facts be damned ... a good story is hard to suppress, even if it is completely untrue. And if it is even better if it is used to smear a political opponent.

http://www.boston.com/news/globe/ed...ticles/2005/04/30/debunking_a_spitting_image/

The persistence of spat-upon Vietnam veteran stories suggests that they continue to fill a need in American culture. The image of spat-upon veterans is the icon through which many people remember the loss of the war, the centerpiece of a betrayal narrative that understands the war to have been lost because of treason on the home front.
 
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