Martial arts and social vices

skribs

Grandmaster
Joined
Nov 14, 2013
Messages
7,233
Reaction score
2,389
I had a strange realization today. Martial arts are why I drink and smoke. I started drinking socially when my Taekwondo Master told me that if I go to Kukkiwon, I'd need to be able to hold my liquor. I smoked my first cigar at a pool party with a bunch of my friends from jiu-jitsu. (Both of these happened in my 30s).

If it weren't for martial arts, I probably wouldn't have these vices. Kinda funny when you think about martial arts is usually about giving up vices.
 

MetalBoar

Black Belt
Joined
Jun 23, 2018
Messages
515
Reaction score
466
I had a strange realization today. Martial arts are why I drink and smoke. I started drinking socially when my Taekwondo Master told me that if I go to Kukkiwon, I'd need to be able to hold my liquor. I smoked my first cigar at a pool party with a bunch of my friends from jiu-jitsu. (Both of these happened in my 30s).

If it weren't for martial arts, I probably wouldn't have these vices. Kinda funny when you think about martial arts is usually about giving up vices.
I know that I drank a lot with my fencing class but I was also in college so that might have had something to do with it. Still, I think that drinking was more a part of that fencing subculture (in that time and place) than some others. On the other hand, I drank way, way, WAY, less than the 2 different frat members that rented a room in the same place I did for a while.
 

Oily Dragon

Senior Master
Joined
May 2, 2020
Messages
3,058
Reaction score
1,563
Ugh, nothing worse than sparring with someone who just had a cigarette and watching them struggle to breathe and smelling them gasp all over me. Sorry, the thread gave me a flashback.

I mean, no judgement, everyone has their pet poison, but smoking and cardio just do not go together. I smoked for a while and actually gave it up to train (had to).

It's worth noting some of the most famous martial arts guys in history have had drug issues. Opium (Ip Man), Cocaine (Bruce Lee), Booze (everyone).

Actually I've never been able to find historical evidence that Wong Fei Hung was a heavy drinker, which is his film legacy after Drunken Master. Before Chan played him, he had a much more straight, conserved nature in Hong Kong cinema.

Then this happened.

I know a guy who makes jow with gin, and we had to tell him once to stop sampling the supply.

1694642334521.png
 

Xue Sheng

All weight is underside
Joined
Jan 8, 2006
Messages
33,907
Reaction score
8,890
Location
North American Tectonic Plate
Never smoked. And I never drank in association with MA.... did go to some pretty good restaurants though.

However I have noticed at some schools drinking seems to be something they do a lot of after class or when they get together.
 

HighKick

Blue Belt
Joined
Apr 8, 2023
Messages
235
Reaction score
89
I had a strange realization today. Martial arts are why I drink and smoke. I started drinking socially when my Taekwondo Master told me that if I go to Kukkiwon, I'd need to be able to hold my liquor. I smoked my first cigar at a pool party with a bunch of my friends from jiu-jitsu. (Both of these happened in my 30s).

If it weren't for martial arts, I probably wouldn't have these vices. Kinda funny when you think about martial arts is usually about giving up vices.
I have never seen drinking in excess from the GM's or officials during any KKW events. Social drinking is not uncommon at most of the non-competition events.
Conversely, I have seen more than a few Korean GM's blind running at post tournaments events. Not a lot of smoking and no cigars, however. It is one of their social norms, not all that different from Americans.

Social pressures are a choice we all have to make for ourselves. It never felt like it had anything to do with whether they were martial arts related or not.

One of the funniest things I ever remember seeing at a competition was when another Korean GM tried to sweep my Korean GM. He stood there like an Oak tree and just laughed. It was a priceless sight to see.
 

Gyakuto

Master of Arts
Joined
Nov 21, 2020
Messages
1,636
Reaction score
1,290
Location
UK
Its one thing to have a beer after training, maybe smoke a cigar after a significant grading, but to continue doing so is a choice, especially when those habits are really unpleasant at first. What makes a person continue partaking? I used to think it was peer pressure and the desire to appear cool and then those people that have the traits that make them prone to addiction, continue once the the initial disgust is superseded by the physiological/psychological dependence. But now, Im not sure
 

MetalBoar

Black Belt
Joined
Jun 23, 2018
Messages
515
Reaction score
466
Its one thing to have a beer after training, maybe smoke a cigar after a significant grading, but to continue doing so is a choice, especially when those habits are really unpleasant at first. What makes a person continue partaking? I used to think it was peer pressure and the desire to appear cool and then those people that have the traits that make them prone to addiction, continue once the the initial disgust is superseded by the physiological/psychological dependence. But now, Im not sure
So, I don't like anything about tobacco use, though I've been assured by other people that they do enjoy it, sans addiction. They might have been lying or delusional, but I do really like a good beer or other quality (and to my taste) alcoholic beverage. This was not an acquired taste and I've definitely never been addicted to alcohol. Would I have liked it as a little kid? I don't know, but I hated asparagus as a little kid and now I like it, and it was not an acquired taste (at least not the way people usually mean it), I simply tried it again as an adult and found my taste had changed.
 

Tigerwarrior

Blue Belt
Joined
Jan 8, 2023
Messages
294
Reaction score
167
I had a strange realization today. Martial arts are why I drink and smoke. I started drinking socially when my Taekwondo Master told me that if I go to Kukkiwon, I'd need to be able to hold my liquor. I smoked my first cigar at a pool party with a bunch of my friends from jiu-jitsu. (Both of these happened in my 30s).

If it weren't for martial arts, I probably wouldn't have these vices. Kinda funny when you think about martial arts is usually about giving up vices.
Self control is one of the tenets of tkd I think. It kind of shocks me to hear that they said you need to be able to hold your own at drinking. I do agree korean culture is a bit different and I've heard stories about alcohol there but it's all hear say I've never been there yet(but I want to visit one day). But yeah as long as you can keep the tenet of self control you won't be addicted. I personally don't drink, I did in the past but was never addicted to it. I decided to stop drinking because I've seen alcoholism ruin lives in my family, although I've never been an alcoholic I do abstain. On the other hand I'm addicted to nicotine, smoked cigarettes for 6 years and tried to quit but couldn't so I switched to vapes which I know also isn't the healthiest. My cardio is better after quitting smoking. But I want to quit vapes too. I do enjoy a cigar once in a while and that will not change. I'd like to break the nicotine addiction though and only occasionally have a cigar. Also I didn't get my vice from ma.
 

isshinryuronin

Master of Arts
Joined
Feb 28, 2019
Messages
1,569
Reaction score
1,609
Location
Las Vegas
There is some history concerning drinking by some old Okinawan MA masters. Tokumine, who has a bo kata named after him, passed down by Kyan Chotoku (perhaps learned from Tokumine's landlord) was reportedly a drinker, getting into a brawl requiring him to flee to an adjoining island for a few years. Motobu Choki, the noted karate street fighter, was an advocate of significant drinking, saying we all need balance in our lives. Smoking was popular in the old days before its negative health impact was known, especially in Japan, so some of that took place. Unfortunately, I have no stories of any sexual exploits of the old masters. Being human, we all have vices of some type. The key is to have the discipline to keep them under control.
 

Gyakuto

Master of Arts
Joined
Nov 21, 2020
Messages
1,636
Reaction score
1,290
Location
UK
So, I don't like anything about tobacco use, though I've been assured by other people that they do enjoy it, sans addiction. They might have been lying or delusional, but I do really like a good beer or other quality (and to my taste) alcoholic beverage.
So the first time you took a sip of beer you didnt recoil and think ugh? I was 11yrs old and found its bitterness absolutely vile, but because it was deemed adult and cool I finished off the pint and pretended to enjoy it. I started Karate at about the same time and the idea that true martial artists do not imbibe the elixir of delusion made my avoidance much easier.

I think childrens sense of taste is more sensitive than that of adults, hence the aversion to broccoli, asparagus and cabbage! To this day, I only very occasionally, on a hot summer day when Im sick of sweet drinks do I manage a 330ml of beer, but stop enjoying it half way through.

Tobacco, on the other hand, was vile from the first drag and I wont go near a person who stinks of cigarette smoke.丐
 

Darksoul

Black Belt
Joined
Jul 30, 2004
Messages
513
Reaction score
58
Location
Rochester, NY
So the first time you took a sip of beer you didnt recoil and think ugh? I was 11yrs old and found its bitterness absolutely vile, but because it was deemed adult and cool I finished off the pint and pretended to enjoy it. I started Karate at about the same time and the idea that true martial artists do not imbibe the elixir of delusion made my avoidance much easier.

I think childrens sense of taste is more sensitive than that of adults, hence the aversion to broccoli, asparagus and cabbage! To this day, I only very occasionally, on a hot summer day when Im sick of sweet drinks do I manage a 330ml of beer, but stop enjoying it half way through.

Tobacco, on the other hand, was vile from the first drag and I wont go near a person who stinks of cigarette smoke.丐
Definitely some truth to that, I tried my father's beer when I was 7 years old, put me right off. After that I could've been the poster child for the Dare program, remember a cop coming in to speak with us in 4th grade, basically saying don't do drugs. Too young to really understand but it made an impression. Decades later and I still have never imbibed or smoked cigarettes. A rare cigar but that's also been years. Certainly have seen what the excesses can do to a person. And all the places I've studied martial arts, the subject never came up.
 
OP
skribs

skribs

Grandmaster
Joined
Nov 14, 2013
Messages
7,233
Reaction score
2,389
Self control is one of the tenets of tkd I think. It kind of shocks me to hear that they said you need to be able to hold your own at drinking. I do agree korean culture is a bit different and I've heard stories about alcohol there but it's all hear say I've never been there yet(but I want to visit one day). But yeah as long as you can keep the tenet of self control you won't be addicted. I personally don't drink, I did in the past but was never addicted to it. I decided to stop drinking because I've seen alcoholism ruin lives in my family, although I've never been an alcoholic I do abstain. On the other hand I'm addicted to nicotine, smoked cigarettes for 6 years and tried to quit but couldn't so I switched to vapes which I know also isn't the healthiest. My cardio is better after quitting smoking. But I want to quit vapes too. I do enjoy a cigar once in a while and that will not change. I'd like to break the nicotine addiction though and only occasionally have a cigar. Also I didn't get my vice from ma.
It was during COVID, when we were forced to do virtual training. We had a particularly brutal belt test, which showed a lot of the problems with virtual training in general, but also with the effects that it was having on kid's behavior and ability to listen, focus, and follow directions. At the end of the test, after we turned off the computers and it was just me, him, and his wife in the school, my Master says, "I need vodka."

So that night I went and got two bottles. One for me, one for him. And I started taking a couple shots at night while playing video games. Turns out it helps me sleep, something I've always struggled with.
 

Gyakuto

Master of Arts
Joined
Nov 21, 2020
Messages
1,636
Reaction score
1,290
Location
UK
Last week an acquaintance from my gym told me that she developed a painful abdomen and bloating whilst on holiday abroad. On her return home her doctor told her she had pancreatitis! I asked if she was a heavy drinker. She confirmed she was地 bit. Her husband is a huge 195cm bloke and she says he encourages her to keep up with him while on the lash. She is a 152cm, slight woman whos had 4 kids.

This morning, I asked how she was doing. She said even a sip of alcohol made her very ill and thus she was avoiding it completely with excellent effect. She then told me she would easily drink 15 units of alcohol on Friday and Saturday nights plus a couple of beers in the day and a couple of spirits every night during the week. She has a fully equipped bar in her living room and a large wine fridge in her kitchen. I assume they arent for decorative purposes. I was very careful to hide my surprise/shock but its clear she is a very heavy drinker and for a tiny person thats quite serious. She said she was dreading Christmas where shed have a drink in her hand all day for two weeks from the moment she awoke!

I know this isnt unusual behaviour here in the U.K. In Roman times, Seneca mentioned that the Britons had .a bad relationship with beer色. Our alcohol promotion is controlled by the Portman Group, a quango made up from members of the brewing industry, and socialising revolves almost exclusively around drinking large amounts of booze. Drinking large amounts of wine is completely normalised over here with the damaging behaviour made frivolous with phrases like wine o clock and the like.
 

Gyakuto

Master of Arts
Joined
Nov 21, 2020
Messages
1,636
Reaction score
1,290
Location
UK
At the risk of trying to appear saintly, I do have a few vices but they dont include alcohol or tobacco!
 

Monkey Turned Wolf

MT Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Jan 4, 2012
Messages
11,960
Reaction score
6,002
Location
New York
So that night I went and got two bottles. One for me, one for him. And I started taking a couple shots at night while playing video games. Turns out it helps me sleep, something I've always struggled with.
Not sure how much you've looked into it, but just as an FYI: while alcohol can help initially fall asleep, it typically decreases sleep quality (biggest two reasons are that you don't know about at the time is that it can cause less REM sleep, and that while it leaves your system your heart rate will rise, which is counter to your body wanting a low heart rate while sleeping).
 

Oily Dragon

Senior Master
Joined
May 2, 2020
Messages
3,058
Reaction score
1,563
Not sure how much you've looked into it, but just as an FYI: while alcohol can help initially fall asleep, it typically decreases sleep quality (biggest two reasons are that you don't know about at the time is that it can cause less REM sleep, and that while it leaves your system your heart rate will rise, which is counter to your body wanting a low heart rate while sleeping).
Not only that, the longer you drink regularly the more your brain gets excited if you stop suddenly. This can suddenly kill you if you drink too much.

I gave up drinking a while back for overall health purposes and to train better. A couple beers with friends, maybe now and then. My party days are kind of over, not that I am that fun to begin with.

Besides it's cheaper and more useful to get your dope from exercise IMHO. Kung fu taught me that.
 

MetalBoar

Black Belt
Joined
Jun 23, 2018
Messages
515
Reaction score
466
So the first time you took a sip of beer you didnt recoil and think ugh? I was 11yrs old and found its bitterness absolutely vile, but because it was deemed adult and cool I finished off the pint and pretended to enjoy it. I started Karate at about the same time and the idea that true martial artists do not imbibe the elixir of delusion made my avoidance much easier.

I think childrens sense of taste is more sensitive than that of adults, hence the aversion to broccoli, asparagus and cabbage! To this day, I only very occasionally, on a hot summer day when Im sick of sweet drinks do I manage a 330ml of beer, but stop enjoying it half way through.

Tobacco, on the other hand, was vile from the first drag and I wont go near a person who stinks of cigarette smoke.丐
Nope. I have had that reaction to some of the super hoppy IPA's that have been all the rage in US craft brew circles for something like 20 years now, but not as a first reaction to my first beer.

Soft drinks, at least American soft drinks like Coca Cola or Dr. Pepper, cause me to recoil from the sweetness in the way you describe. I can't imagine drinking any of that stuff for any reason. I remember having some sort of fizzy lemon flavored soft drink the last time I was in the UK that wasn't bad, but in general if I'm not drinking water it's going to be unsweetened tea, unsweetened coffee, or pretty rarely these days, an alcoholic beverage. I guess I'll also occasionally have an Arnold Palmer (1/2 lemonade and 1/2 iced tea).
 

MetalBoar

Black Belt
Joined
Jun 23, 2018
Messages
515
Reaction score
466
Not sure how much you've looked into it, but just as an FYI: while alcohol can help initially fall asleep, it typically decreases sleep quality (biggest two reasons are that you don't know about at the time is that it can cause less REM sleep, and that while it leaves your system your heart rate will rise, which is counter to your body wanting a low heart rate while sleeping).
I have terrible sleep problems that just get worse as I get older. One of the main reasons I rarely drink alcohol anymore is this right here ^. I can usually get to sleep, but staying asleep is tough. Alcohol can make this much worse.
 
Top