Looking for advice...

[Simon Curran]

Hello all,
I intially got into martial arts on another's recommendation because I had a lousy temper, and, without a shadow of a doubt, it has helped.
My problem is this, I no longer get into nearly as much trouble as I used to, but I have noticed that if things do turn ugly, I still can't remain as calm as I would like, difficult to explain, but it takes a lot to push my buttons these days, but when someone does, I just completely see red.
The thing that got me thinking about this was the fact that I wound up in an altercation this last weekend, and I did need to react, but maybe not as strongly as I did.
I am hoping that some of you good folks out there might be able to come with a suggestion or two as to what might help me keep a lid on things when I am forced to react.
I understand about the adrenaline dump, and it isn't that, I just get to a point where my blood boils over, and I don't think about what I am doing.

Sorry for the long post,
all suggestions welcomed.
Simon

 

[Kenpojujitsu3]

I too have a short fuse when I have to "let the chips fall". My advice is simple. Find something/someone that you really care about above all else and can't afford to lose. Remind yourself that this person/thing will be lost to you if you (A) get incarcerated for your actions or (b) get seriously crippled or killed while "letting the chips fall". I used to bust guys up pretty bad when the "fists started flying" but now I have a son and full-custody of him at that. I have little family anywhere nearby. I know that if anything happens to me HE SUFFERS FOR IT. That's enough to keep me in check and ensure that I actually use "appropriate/minimal force" instead of busting the other guy up as bad possible until someone else pulls me off of the antagonist. Perhaps that will help. I avoided the whole "train yourself to be calmer" method because I believe it compromises your ability to "get the job done" or "flip the switch" when necessary.

 

[chinto01]

Simon it sounds to me like you still may have some anger issues that may be best discussed with a professional. On a side note there is a book written by a Zen master I believe about dealing with anger. You might also want to look into that. Either way i hope you find a solution to your anger issues.

In the spirit of bushido!

Rob

 

[MA-Caver]

Anger and combat has never mixed well. Definitely, get some help and talk about these issues you may have. While MA has or basically what it really did was teach you how to discipline your anger but it hasn't really curbed it, just focused it. Anger must be removed and the only way to do that is to understand where it comes from and why you get upset so easily.
A good 1 on 1 and group therapy will help. Nothing to be ashamed of... btw.

 

[shesulsa]

You might want to know that it takes a good deal of courage and maturity to:

1. admit you have a challenge with your anger

and

2. seek some professional advice.

Pro counselling carries such stigma ... just forget about it and go. It might all in just how you were shown to handle anger. You can reprogram this.

Best of luck to you.

 

[Marginal]

I understand about the adrenaline dump, and it isn't that, I just get to a point where my blood boils over, and I don't think about what I am doing.

Sorry for the long post,
all suggestions welcomed.
Simon

Just on how I see my own reactions take shape in hindsight, I generally at some point decide I'm going to be mad and intractable well before I hit the point of no return. Usually I'll mentally flick through some options and likely consequences before I let things to down that road though because there's usually nothing gained by either being a jerk, or from goading one.

If nothing's gained, what's the point?

 

[still learning]

Hello, Anger is a learn behavior....when things go wrong....people react according to the way they learn from others.

Growing up I too had a bad temper, and quickly realize I was getting myself into more troubles because of it.

Admiting it is the first step to improving yourself. There are lots of books on this topic, research and read as much as you can. Practice what they recommend and you will find one or many ideas's that can help you.

Usually when I feel this ugly feeling, I usually find it best to walk away from the person or situtions. Then I tell myself - is it worth behaving like that?

Today I find it very easy not to get anger but to look at from other person point of view and I try to find something to help solve the problems, and be more agreeable (see things from there view and try to understand.

If someone is mad/anger at me I try to defuse/leave or just keep quiet. No one wins in any arguement. Don't argue with anyone.....we all have our own point of views.

No shame in backing down.....better to live another day or stay out of jail or the hospital or worst (death).

Some people can be stubborn and except this..............Aloha

 

[MA-Caver]

When we are confronted by a challenge, by someone threatening us, we usually react to the situation. Reaction, as it is used here, is a psychological movement to defend, either physically or with words, that which is perceived as being threatened -- which is ourselves. It is easy to understand defending oneself from physical assault, but psychological assault is another type of threat. In being attacked physically, the body is being threatened. In being attacked psychologically, what is being threatened? If we could actually be aware psychologically at the moment of attack, we could see what is defending. Isn't it our self, an image that thought has created? It seems that the real work of the art of Karate (or Martial Arts*) is in understanding this "self" for it seems that this self is the root of psychological reaction, and therefore is the seat of conflict.

~Karate: The Art of Empty Self by: Terrence Webster-Doyle

I was reading this today and thought of you Simon. You said earlier that you know that it was your buttons that were being pushed, and although there were a lot more buttons to push to get you angry... you still get angry anyway. Well, I get angry too but now-a-days I rarely find myself angry with other people. More-so I find that I was/am really angry at myself and that while my "antagonist" (or button pusher) may or may not have knowingly been pushing those buttons which set me off I found that I, with my own self-image was defending those same ideals/images.
Something to think about... :asian:

*my additon to this fine quotation.

 

[evenflow1121]

Well I had a very short fuse, and I was pretty bad when I was younger, I guess as I grew older I began to analyze all the good things I had going on in my life (family, degree, friends, ect.) and as I valued those things I weighed them against my pride. I figured sometimes you just have to swallow your pride in order to win in life, I mean there are people in this world that could careless if they mess up their own life and yours in an altercation. Just keep that in mind next time you get angry Simon. See, if you mess somebody up real bad on account of some argument, you may end up in jail, getting sued, ect. Its not worth it, life or death is a different story, but most altercations arise out of airs (ie--someone shoves you or says something stupid, ect) its not worth it. Next time you get ticked off just think about the consequences that may arise, I hope this helps you a bit.

 

[sifu Adams]

I would say get into the internal arts more. Look into a good Tai Chi class. I believe have have seen students change to a real relaxed state. I am a supervisor for General Motors and I run in to some upper management that have been drill sargents in the forces and think that they can deal with me the same way with the same words. however I am know around the plant for not backing down and people tell me all the time "you never get excited, mad, upset..." I tell them I don't get excited untill the punch in one inch away. I believe I am like this because of all the internals like Tai chi and Chi Kong along with the breathing and relaxation I do on a weekly bases.

 

[Simon Curran]

Ladies and gents,

Thanks for your advice and support, looking into the internal arts is definately something I have been thinking about.
However, I should have been a little clearer in my initial post, (I was trying to avoid writing the long essay I am about to unleash on you poor folks)

This particular recent incident is a better example of what I was trying to say.
A good friend of ours has just left yesterday for a 6 month tour in Irak, so last weekend we went out for a few beers to "see him off".
I am not at all jealous, when we are out and about, my girlfriend does her thing, I do mine, but I do keep half an eye on her to make sure that she is OK.
Anyway we were in a bar, and I could see that my girlfriend was having a rather heated arguement with some erm, "rectal passage", but she can more than hold her own verbally, so I just monitored the situation.
Then it turned to the guy shouting in her face, and pushing her threateningly, so I took a few steps closer, and heard her say to one of the guys friends "Get this ****** Post Edited to conform to MT's Profanity Rules away from me before Si gets here" at which point the guy grabs my girlfriend's breast.
The next part, I believe was justified, only later did it turn ugly.
I stepped in between him and my girlfriend, shoved him over a bench and dragged him back up to give him a lecture about gentlemanly conduct over for a lady.
However he took a wild swing after my head, which I kind of step-bobbed underneath and popped up grabbing him in a sleeper hold.
From this point onward I lost it, and this is the particular problem I am refering to.
I know that I should have sent him on his way, but I didn't due to my reasonable self having left the building, instead I proceeded to choke him out, and was still doing so until my girlfriend told me to stop and the bouncers arrived.
I detest any form of agression towards females and moreso in the case of my own girlfriend of course.
I honestly do believe my intial reaction was both correct and justified, it is the overreaction that I am not happy about, and therefore think that the idea of the internal arts may well be a good one.
Thanks once again for your suggestions and advice, and please excuse my ramblings.

Simon

 

[Dan G]

Ladies and gents,

Thanks for your advice and support, looking into the internal arts is definately something I have been thinking about.
However, I should have been a little clearer in my initial post, (I was trying to avoid writing the long essay I am about to unleash on you poor folks)

This particular recent incident is a better example of what I was trying to say.
A good friend of ours has just left yesterday for a 6 month tour in Irak, so last weekend we went out for a few beers to "see him off".
I am not at all jealous, when we are out and about, my girlfriend does her thing, I do mine, but I do keep half an eye on her to make sure that she is OK.
Anyway we were in a bar, and I could see that my girlfriend was having a rather heated arguement with some erm, "rectal passage", but she can more than hold her own verbally, so I just monitored the situation.
Then it turned to the guy shouting in her face, and pushing her threateningly, so I took a few steps closer, and heard her say to one of the guys friends "Get this f****r away from me before Si gets here" at which point the guy grabs my girlfriend's breast.
The next part, I believe was justified, only later did it turn ugly.
I stepped in between him and my girlfriend, shoved him over a bench and dragged him back up to give him a lecture about gentlemanly conduct over for a lady.
However he took a wild swing after my head, which I kind of step-bobbed underneath and popped up grabbing him in a sleeper hold.
From this point onward I lost it, and this is the particular problem I am refering to.
I know that I should have sent him on his way, but I didn't due to my reasonable self having left the building, instead I proceeded to choke him out, and was still doing so until my girlfriend told me to stop and the bouncers arrived.
I detest any form of agression towards females and moreso in the case of my own girlfriend of course.
I honestly do believe my intial reaction was both correct and justified, it is the overreaction that I am not happy about, and therefore think that the idea of the internal arts may well be a good one.
Thanks once again for your suggestions and advice, and please excuse my ramblings.

Simon

Only you can judge what was going on in your head at the time, but from what you say you chose to go the "control and restraint" route rather than just giving the bloke a through hiding...
Having met you I am pretty certain you could have made a serious mess of the bloke, but by the sounds of things you chose not to.
You are the ultimate judge of your actions, but perhaps you are being a bit hard on yourself. No harm no foul!

Cheers

Dan

 

[Simon Curran]

Only you can judge what was going on in your head at the time, but from what you say you chose to go the "control and restraint" route rather than just giving the bloke a through hiding...
Having met you I am pretty certain you could have made a serious mess of the bloke, but by the sounds of things you chose not to.
You are the ultimate judge of your actions, but perhaps you are being a bit hard on yourself. No harm no foul!

Cheers

Dan

Thanks for the kind words Dan,
You are probably right, and maybe I am being too hard on myself, but they do say that hindsight is 20/20, and I am just kind of disappointed in myself for not stopping sooner.
Have a good weekend mate,
Take care
Simon

 

[Dan G]

Thanks for the kind words Dan,
You are probably right, and maybe I am being too hard on myself, but they do say that hindsight is 20/20, and I am just kind of disappointed in myself for not stopping sooner.
Have a good weekend mate,
Take care
Simon

You too mate!

Dan

 

[Jonathan Randall]

I know that I should have sent him on his way, but I didn't due to my reasonable self having left the building, instead I proceeded to choke him out, and was still doing so until my girlfriend told me to stop and the bouncers arrived.
I detest any form of agression towards females and moreso in the case of my own girlfriend of course.
I honestly do believe my intial reaction was both correct and justified, it is the overreaction that I am not happy about, and therefore think that the idea of the internal arts may well be a good one.
Thanks once again for your suggestions and advice, and please excuse my ramblings.

Simon

Listen, while it would have been great to have stopped at the least possible level of force - you were a human reacting to the sexual assault of your significant other. When I first saw this thread I thought you had gotten in a fight because someone had cut you off in line or something. By all means, work on restraint and emotional control, but do admit that like everybody else you are a fallible human being. Turning off justifiable aggression and breaking off physical contact the SECOND your significant other is safe is a professional level skill that takes time and experience to develop. Unfortunately, judge and juries often believe in a perfect world where people can turn on a dime so you do have to keep in mind the consquences of your actions beyond simply the moral issue of not harming someone.

There is a good tape series called "Self Discipline and Emotional Control" that I listened to years ago that was very helpful. If it is no longer available, I am sure other good books and programs are. Basically it told you to put individual situatations in perspective and also not tie your own self-worth to "winning" every argument or confrontation - basically what some of the other posters have written.

 

[Simon Curran]

Listen, while it would have been great to have stopped at the least possible level of force - you were a human reacting to the sexual assault of your significant other. When I first saw this thread I thought you had gotten in a fight because someone had cut you off in line or something. By all means, work on restraint and emotional control, but do admit that like everybody else you are a fallible human being. Turning off justifiable aggression and breaking off physical contact the SECOND your significant other is safe is a professional level skill that takes time and experience to develop. Unfortunately, judge and juries often believe in a perfect world where people can turn on a dime so you do have to keep in mind the consquences of your actions beyond simply the moral issue of not harming someone.

There is a good tape series called "Self Discipline and Emotional Control" that I listened to years ago that was very helpful. If it is no longer available, I am sure other good books and programs are. Basically it told you to put individual situatations in perspective and also not tie your own self-worth to "winning" every argument or confrontation - basically what some of the other posters have written.

Thanks a lot for the reccomendation, I just googled it and found a site where it can be downloaded for something like 30 US$ so I think I might give it a try.:asian:

 

[MJS]

I too have a short fuse when I have to "let the chips fall". My advice is simple. Find something/someone that you really care about above all else and can't afford to lose. Remind yourself that this person/thing will be lost to you if you (A) get incarcerated for your actions or (b) get seriously crippled or killed while "letting the chips fall". I used to bust guys up pretty bad when the "fists started flying" but now I have a son and full-custody of him at that. I have little family anywhere nearby. I know that if anything happens to me HE SUFFERS FOR IT. That's enough to keep me in check and ensure that I actually use "appropriate/minimal force" instead of busting the other guy up as bad possible until someone else pulls me off of the antagonist. Perhaps that will help. I avoided the whole "train yourself to be calmer" method because I believe it compromises your ability to "get the job done" or "flip the switch" when necessary.

Well said! Its funny because one of the things that the arts are supposed to teach is self control. I for one, need to work on that aspect. I'm certainly not a violent person, don't go looking for trouble, etc., but I think you hit the nail on the head when you said to take a step back and think about something or someone close to you and the potential consequences if you act before you think. Sometimes we just need to say to ourselves, its just not worth it..period!! Dont sweat the small stuff..things can certainly be alot worse.

Mike

 

[still learning]

Hello, All behavior is learn. Our parents/guardians are our teachers as we grow up. The people around us also set examples.

It that why our world is like this today? Too many bad examples?

Today we know we all can change to be a better person and role model for others. This is one way we can help change the world to be a better place to live one person at a time.

Sometimes our girl friends can set you up because she wants to know if you are going to protect her/or because she knows you know the martial arts and she can get very verbal with anyone. Just my thoughts! If this happens more than once? be carefull...................Aloha

 

[first123class]

Bro, try homeopathic resque remedy,(I forgort how it's spelled) It helps in the moments of acute, strong emotions.

 

[Simon Curran]

Sometimes our girl friends can set you up because she wants to know if you are going to protect her/or because she knows you know the martial arts and she can get very verbal with anyone. Just my thoughts! If this happens more than once? be carefull...................Aloha

Thanks for your words, but that really isn't the case, she is maybe a little too trusting of people sometimes, as opposed to being a direct trouble causer.