Leung Ting wooden dummy chi sau

yak sao

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Who here :has learned wooden dummy chi sau and/or applications of wooden dummy from Leung Ting lineage?
 

geezer

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My problem is that I have nobody at the dummy level to work with so I typically forget the endless "chi-sau section" sequences within a few months after learning them. It's gotten to the point where I have serious doubts about the whole system of "secret sections" as a training method.

Now a few people are marketing videos of the sections, and there is a little bit on youtube. But most of it is quite a bit different from what I learned.

That said, I just finished a seminar where we spent a good deal of time on chi-sau applications of dummy sections 1-4. Not the formal sections, but something similar. It was fun training.
 

Callen

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My problem is that I have nobody at the dummy level to work with so I typically forget the endless "chi-sau section" sequences within a few months after learning them. It's gotten to the point where I have serious doubts about the whole system of "secret sections" as a training method.

So you guys have "chi sau sections" on the dummy? How long does it typically take a WT practitioner to get to that level?
 

Sifu Mike

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I didn't train under Leung Ting and doubt many here have-no disrespect but this is the internet and not your local area so don't expect a lot of precise responses.
I did learn the Dummy Form years ago at IMB Academy. Dan Inosanto/Richard Bustillo, both Sigung Bruce Lee's students. And we did our fair share of Chi Sao (mostly 2 hands) and quite a bit out of class with my training buddies.
That being said I can say that I teach Chi Sao to (1) incorporate a move and (2) get familiar with being in close (face-to-face) range.
The dummy is good for practicing a series of moves that require you to move around and to improve a move.
I found that it is better to take a specific move and after Chi Sao learn or improve that 1 move.
I have my students train at half speed and then by class end they are moving at full speed.
They love it and they are good.
Food for thought.
 

geezer

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I didn't train under Leung Ting and doubt many here have-no disrespect but this is the internet and not your local area so don't expect a lot of precise responses.
I did learn the Dummy Form years ago at IMB Academy. Dan Inosanto/Richard Bustillo, both Sigung Bruce Lee's students. And we did our fair share of Chi Sao (mostly 2 hands) and quite a bit out of class with my training buddies.
That being said I can say that I teach Chi Sao to (1) incorporate a move and (2) get familiar with being in close (face-to-face) range.
The dummy is good for practicing a series of moves that require you to move around and to improve a move.
I found that it is better to take a specific move and after Chi Sao learn or improve that 1 move.
I have my students train at half speed and then by class end they are moving at full speed.
They love it and they are good.
Food for thought.
Hey Mike, welcome to Martial Talk. Good to have some input from a different perspective. Looking forward to seeing more of your posts!
 

geezer

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So you guys have "chi sau sections" on the dummy? How long does it typically take a WT practitioner to get to that level?
You know, I'm really not sure. I trained under LT a long time ago under very different circumstances. In the early 80s LT was trying to build an organization in the US and moved us along faster than was ideal. Today, it seems like some of his groups prefer to hold people back a long time....possibly even stringing them along to keep them paying year after year? Also the curriculum has become very inflated.

To learn the whole program involves memorizing a lot of techniques. These techniques are usually considered "proprietary" and not accurately shown in their books or videos. So It seams like a lot of upper level students get caught up in an endless cycle of learning routines, forgetting parts and re-learning them. Some of the stuff is kinda cool ...the way it uses your opponent's energy, but how much of it you can apply in sparring, especially against anybody not trained in exactly the same thing ....well that's the big question.

Of course I could be wrong about a lotta this. We have some forum members that have more recent experience with some of the WT groups who might be able to contribute more accurate information.
 
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geezer

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I did learn the Dummy Form years ago at IMB Academy. Dan Inosanto/Richard Bustillo, both Sigung Bruce Lee's students.
Maybe a little off-topic, but the conversation is kinda slow at the moment ....so anyway, I see you refer to Bruce Lee as "Sigung" ...in your school is that honorific used as a title of rank (the way some Kempo schools use it)?

Or is the term used to specifically denote lineage and generation in the traditional Chinese way (i.e. my si-fu was Leung Ting and his si-fu was Yip Man, so Yip is therefore my si-gung. Yip Man's si-fu Chan Wah Shun would be my si-dai-gung, and a great ancestor of the system like Leung Jan would be my si-jo, etc.)?

So, in other words, The term is not a fixed title. It changes with each generation. LT is my sifu, but he would be my student's si-gung, his student's si-dai-gung, and so on.

BTW, all this archaic terminology can get a little ritualistic, you know. Especially when you find it's mainly used in the Western world and not so much in China anymore. In fact, I'm kinda transitioning to the term coach ...although that may annoy other teachers in my organization. But to me, it just seems less pretentious and more down-to-earth. :)
 
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Oily Dragon

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BTW, all this archaic terminology can get a little ritualistic, you know. Especially when you find it's mainly used in the Western world and not so much in China anymore. In fact, I'm kinda transitioning to the term coach ...although that may annoy other teachers in my organization. But to me, it just seems less pretentious and more down-to-earth. :)

師 is used commonly throughout all of Asia, but especially in scriptures of the Chan lineages of which Wing Chun staked its claim.

Pretentious? Yes, please, always.
 

Sifu Mike

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Maybe a little off-topic, but the conversation is kinda slow at the moment ....so anyway, I see you refer to Bruce Lee as "Sigung" ...in your school is that honorific used as a title of rank (the way some Kempo schools use it)?

Or is the term used to specifically denote lineage and generation in the traditional Chinese way (i.e. my si-fu was Leung Ting and his si-fu was Yip Man, so Yip is therefore my si-gung. Yip Man's si-fu Chan Wah Shun would be my si-dai-gung, and a great ancestor of the system like Leung Jan would be my si-jo, etc.)?

So, in other words, The term is not a fixed title. It changes with each generation. LT is my sifu, but he would be my student's si-gung, his student's si-dai-gung, and so on.

BTW, all this archaic terminology can get a little ritualistic, you know. Especially when you find it's mainly used in the Western world and not so much in China anymore. In fact, I'm kinda transitioning to the term coach ...although that may annoy other teachers in my organization. But to me, it just seems less pretentious and more down-to-earth. :)
Hi Geezer. Sigung is term Dan Inosanto and Richard Bustillo used to describe their teacher, the famous Bruce Lee. As I recall we had a picture of BL with "Sigung" underneath is. It was explained to me to mean founder/GrandFather/"Grand Master" (using today's overused term.
 

Xue Sheng

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Hi Geezer. Sigung is term Dan Inosanto and Richard Bustillo used to describe their teacher, the famous Bruce Lee. As I recall we had a picture of BL with "Sigung" underneath is. It was explained to me to mean founder/GrandFather/"Grand Master" (using today's overused term.

Sigung actually means teacher's teacher. It is commonly misused in the west
 
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