Let's talk dummy

yak sao

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I ran through the dummy form in the air just now, which is something I seldom do, and liked the way it flowed.

Do you think there is a benefit to training it this way?

And a follow-up question, are there things from the three empty hand forms that you like to practice on the dummy?
 

wckf92

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I ran through the dummy form in the air just now, which is something I seldom do, and liked the way it flowed.

Do you think there is a benefit to training it this way?

And a follow-up question, are there things from the three empty hand forms that you like to practice on the dummy?

Yes, I think it is beneficial from a proprioceptive aspect. And, also for memory... I used to do the air dummy when I did not have access to my jong for long periods of time.
 

Argus

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I've sadly never owned a dummy, so this is how I always practice it at home, lol
I will have to get or build one now that I'm resuming my training.
 

Danny T

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Personally knowing the dummy form has little as to fighting. There is no sense of timing an attack, force, or speed within an attack. However, using the form on the dummy is of high valuable as a fine tuner for one's positioning of the arms, elbow, footwork, body positioning in relation to the attacking arms, legs, and body. One learns to move contact the arms at the proper angle and force to position the arms in the mountings with proper forward intent. One learns to move around the arms with footwork, body movement, and positioning to create the deflections rather than forcing the opponents arms away. Something my instructor had me do was work the dummy getting as close to the arms as possible but without toughing them. Then it was touching the arms only enough to move the arm to the proper corner on the hole and finally actually using energy into the arms.
 
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yak sao

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Personally knowing the dummy form has little as to fighting. There is no sense of timing an attack, force, or speed within an attack. However, using the form on the dummy is of high valuable as a fine tuner for one's positioning of the arms, elbow, footwork, body positioning in relation to the attacking arms, legs, and body. One learns to move contact the arms at the proper angle and force to position the arms in the mountings with proper forward intent. One learns to move around the arms with footwork, body movement, and positioning to create the deflections rather than forcing the opponents arms away. Something my instructor had me do was work the dummy getting as close to the arms as possible but without toughing them. Then it was touching the arms only enough to move the arm to the proper corner on the hole and finally actually using energy into the arms.

I like the idea of moving around the arms without touching them.
 

Callen

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I ran through the dummy form in the air just now, which is something I seldom do, and liked the way it flowed.

Do you think there is a benefit to training it this way?

And a follow-up question, are there things from the three empty hand forms that you like to practice on the dummy?
In my opinion, its extremely difficult to develop the proper attributes that the dummy reinforces without training on an actual dummy. Training things like angle, footwork, elbow placement and positioning will most likely suffer when doing the form in the air; but I can see how it could be beneficial in some ways as a supplemental tool.

Testing memory, or refreshing memory during times when a practitioner does not have access to an actual dummy perhaps? Maybe it could also be a way to encourage letting go a bit, relaxing and being more natural, etc I do believe though, that the importance should be placed on the concepts that the dummy form teaches, not memorization. My perspective is, if a practitioner is going to do the dummy form in the air, they should ask themselves why they are doing it and how it will help them develop the proper attributes that training on an actual wooden dummy provides.

Ill have to give additional thought to your follow-up question. I used to run a lot of things from the three empty hand forms on the dummy. At the time I found that it helped me understand the shapes better as I was learning them. I eventually came to the conclusion that fine-tuning and consistently working the elbow, angles, body positioning and footwork of the actual dummy form is a never ending source of self-development. So these days I don't often select things from the empty hand forms to work on using the dummy unless I'm exploring a specific concept, brainstorming or demonstrating a certain action/shape.

What about you @yak sao, do you find the air-dummy to be beneficial? What things from the empty hand forms do you like to practice on the dummy?
 
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yak sao

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What about you @yak sao, do you find the air-dummy to be beneficial? What things from the empty hand forms do you like to practice on the dummy?

One thing that seems to "amplify" when practicing the dummy set in the air is balance in the kicking sequences.

As for what I practice on the dummy, since an actual training partner is a rare commodity these days, I do a lot of "thinking out loud" on the dummy, whereas normally I would just train them with a live partner.
 

Callen

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One thing that seems to "amplify" when practicing the dummy set in the air is balance in the kicking sequences.

As for what I practice on the dummy, since an actual training partner is a rare commodity these days, I do a lot of "thinking out loud" on the dummy, whereas normally I would just train them with a live partner.
I can definitely see how increased kicking balance can be beneficial. I also like the idea of "thinking out loud" when working the dummy. Very insightful.
 

KPM

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I ran through the dummy form in the air just now, which is something I seldom do, and liked the way it flowed.

Do you think there is a benefit to training it this way?

And a follow-up question, are there things from the three empty hand forms that you like to practice on the dummy?

Absolutely there is benefit to doing the "Hong Jong"!! Obviously the dummy isn't going to move for you. There are techniques on the dummy where you have to use your imagination and picture finishing a motion that you can't finish because the dummy arm doesn't move the way an opponent's arm would move. But when practicing in the air, you can do the technique properly. For example.....2nd section....3 Pak Saus followed by Jut/inward Lan into a Fak to the throat, followed by withdrawing as another Jut/inward Lan as you punch beneath the arms. By pulling down with the Jut you risk blocking your own punch. A better way to see it is as doing the Jut/Lan to pull his arms down just enough to punch over them. But you can't do this on the dummy because the dummy's arms don't move! But you can practice it that way in the air!

There are times when you would step deeper into the center than what the dummy will allow....because it doesn't move! But you can include this when you practice the form in the air. So when doing the Hong Jong, don't worry about moving as if the dummy was always in front of you in the exact same spot. Move across the floor with your footwork. Step deeper sometimes. Angle more some times. Play with it.

Yes, there are lots of things from the other forms that you can practice on the dummy. I think I shared my video on another thread here of practicing Chum Kiu motions on the dummy.
 
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