Lets talk about Dai Wa Do Jujutsu

[Chris Parker]

You are correct on the Kanji. I made a mistake, that is why I like to write out the Kanji for the term when discussing them. Yes, kind of does some building previous section.

Not a problem on the kanji, makes sense.

When it comes to Daiwado Jujutsu, if the methods don't come from the Ryu-ha themselves (as it does in the Bujinkan, for instance), are they methods that Sato Kinbei created himself? Going through Sato Sensei's book on Jujutsu, is the structure similar to that? I didn't note anything that was formal kata from any of the Ryu-ha, it seems more of a basic overview of principles of Jujutsu than a Ryu-ha... would you say that is accurate?

Chenpanling's 99 form Taichi. Is divided into three parts, or sets. The first set is the shortest and its moves are simple. When one completes this section, they will feel a sense of accomplishment as well as stronger legs,and other skills that they will need for the second part. The second part has a series of kicks not in the beginning but about one third of the way in. It would be awful hard to do these kicks right up front in the first section. The third and final set has more complicated moves. Then of course the push hands feet not moving only waist and arms, then connect to feet moving.
Yagyu Shin Gan Ryu, has no such progression.There are 21 patterns, with the 7 attacks being all the same. No really building upon the first set, to help the next step so much etc..

Respectfull,
Duke

Is that all that Sato Kinbei taught of Yagyu Shingan Ryu? That would just be the Omote Gata of the Katcchu Yawara then, right? Not the Torite, the Gyoi Dori, the weaponry etc? I'm most familiar with the Chikuosha line (Shimizu Kenji Sensei), and have seen a number of parts of YSR as it exists in the Genbukan (from Sato Kinbei), and have noted that there seems to be only the one section taught (or, at least, demonstrated) there, as opposed to the Chikuosha line, which is much more expansive.

 

[oaktree]

Hi Duke thanks for the reply.

Cao Cao was a famous general in Chinese history who was cunning and sharp with his wit, short temper he is often time a villian in the warring state novels and movies. It must have been interesting to have to use a Japanese book to learn Chinese As Chinese sentence structure is much more simple then Japanese structure.

The proverb I think I heard it from a cartoon which I like so I put it up. I know the other Proverb comes from the Teen Titan cartoon. I understand about the Youtube videos no worries. The form was the Dragon shaped Baguazhang of Cheng style? I thought it might have been a variant of Liang because Ii saw similar within the style however, The leg hanging out is how Cheng and Gao do there toe outs or change direction if I remember correctly. I know there are pictures of Wang in that stance for his toe out in Robert Smith's books. The hanzi you used throw me off a bit because it is a variant of 龙 or dragon I typed the simplified version.
Did you practice the old mother palm routine of Liang style or any other Liang style Bagua?
Very cool stuff and great discussion.

 

[Duke Meade]

Not a problem on the kanji, makes sense.

When it comes to Daiwado Jujutsu, if the methods don't come from the Ryu-ha themselves (as it does in the Bujinkan, for instance), are they methods that Sato Kinbei created himself? Going through Sato Sensei's book on Jujutsu, is the structure similar to that? I didn't note anything that was formal kata from any of the Ryu-ha, it seems more of a basic overview of principles of Jujutsu than a Ryu-ha... would you say that is accurate?

Is that all that Sato Kinbei taught of Yagyu Shingan Ryu? That would just be the Omote Gata of the Katcchu Yawara then, right? Not the Torite, the Gyoi Dori, the weaponry etc? I'm most familiar with the Chikuosha line (Shimizu Kenji Sensei), and have seen a number of parts of YSR as it exists in the Genbukan (from Sato Kinbei), and have noted that there seems to be only the one section taught (or, at least, demonstrated) there, as opposed to the Chikuosha line, which is much more expansive.[/QUOT

 

[Duke Meade]

Thank you for your questions Chris san.

Sato sensei loved martial arts. In the beginning he was fascinated with them and all he wanted to do was study the next and the next. In doing this he realised that each style had so many good methods some the same as others and some different from other schools.He felt some techniques were too complicated, outdated in effective for modern times, or not effective.He was inetrested in what worked well and could be learned in a reasonable amount of time. So, he could teach each system to learn their methods or he could take the most effective methods from each system and format them in a very understandable way. Thus he created DaiWaDo. So he did not create the methods just the formatting. He was not concerned with keeping things alive just because they had historical value, he only wanted to keep the most practical and effective ones that he thought.
We learned Yagyu Shin Gan Ryu Boken jutsu and Bo jutsu in Chuden level. The Katcchu Yawara was very effective and practical. He said that even these patterns were made to do in armour,they still were very effective and practical for modern times. He liked to teach these patterns to all his students.

Respectfully,
Duke

 

[Duke Meade]

Hello　曹操　Thanks for the explaination.

No I did not study Liang Style. The lifting of the leg in this style is to represent the dragons tail. That is the whole leg straight out . I learned eight postures for using two weapons of any thing or double end spear , and eight for hand to hand. How about you?

Respectfully,

Duke

 

[oaktree]

I practice a short set based off Wang's bagua which has been modified. I also practice a xingyiquan wuxing set modified from Wang's traditional set. I also practice a stake set holding posture which from my understanding
Is a traditional set and has not been altered. As for Liang I practice 8 old palms as it is a simple routine.
I also practice Chen taijiquan laojia.

 

[Chris Parker]

Thank you for your questions Chris san.

Most welcome, Duke (oh, and just Chris is fine... I'm not Japanese, nor in Japan, and while I appreciate the sentiment, it's not really needed. But thanks).

Sato sensei loved martial arts. In the beginning he was fascinated with them and all he wanted to do was study the next and the next. In doing this he realised that each style had so many good methods some the same as others and some different from other schools.He felt some techniques were too complicated, outdated in effective for modern times, or not effective.He was inetrested in what worked well and could be learned in a reasonable amount of time. So, he could teach each system to learn their methods or he could take the most effective methods from each system and format them in a very understandable way. Thus he created DaiWaDo. So he did not create the methods just the formatting. He was not concerned with keeping things alive just because they had historical value, he only wanted to keep the most practical and effective ones that he thought.

Yes, I think that Sato Sensei's love of martial arts isn't in doubt! He certainly dedicated his entire life to them.

I'm still not entirely clear on how Daiwado is structured... are there formal kata for different levels that were created by Sato? Or are selections made from other Ryu-ha for the levels? Or a mixture of both?

We learned Yagyu Shin Gan Ryu Boken jutsu and Bo jutsu in Chuden level. The Katcchu Yawara was very effective and practical. He said that even these patterns were made to do in armour,they still were very effective and practical for modern times. He liked to teach these patterns to all his students.

YSR is a very interesting system. As I said, I'm most familiar with the Chikuosha line... and I'm familiar with a fair bit of the Katcchu Yawara. Do you do things like the mifuri exercises?

 

[yorkshirelad]

I have been teaching Dai Wa Do for 20 years here in the USA . This Jujutsu and its training methods is the fruition of Sato Kimbei's life time study of martial arts.
Lets talk about it.

Mr. Meade, I was never aware that Kimbei Sensei had created this system. Could you tell me who you learned it from, and is there a large contigent of students in the US?

 

[Chris Parker]

I was waiting for Duke to answer himself, but might proffer a responce (leaving it to Duke to correct anything I might get incorrect here).

Duke Meade learnt the system directly from Sato Kinbei while living in Japan, I believe starting in the 70's. In 1993, he was given permission to teach and open a dojo, which he did. As far as I am aware, it is the only Daiwado Dojo in the US.

 

[yorkshirelad]

Thanks Chris! I know that Sato kinbei had visited the US before, but I had no idea that a direct student was among us. I'd like to know more.

 

[Duke Meade]

Chris san,

Even when people tell me it is OK for me not to call them sir or madame, I can not help but to do so. I have been taught to be like that all my life. So I can not just casually address people by their first name especially when I do not know them closely. Even close friends still get SAN at the end of their name. It is like saying to me that I can just forget about my manners. I also do not let my children speak to my friends on first name basis, they must use either last name plus san or Mr/Mrs., plus last name. I also do not like being addressed by my first name by some one who is younger than I am or is not a close friend or a relative. I also believe that people who studying martial arts should be learning not only physical aspects but showing their manners. That is what I learned from my sensei. I can not just call you Chris, it is improper for me to do so.
Any way, Please address me as either Mr. Meade or Meade sensei from now own.Preferably the later. Please lets keep discussing Dai Wa Do

Respectfully,

Duke

 

[Chris Parker]

A few things to consider, then.

As you said, you're very new to forums... a white belt, in your words... and you begged our indulgence and patience as you got used to it all. And, really, very happy to have you here, and more than happy to oblige. And I hope you don't think any more familiar usage of your first name has been with any disrespect... I tend to use first names for a few reasons, one of which is (with those I respect and like) that it can generate a feeling of raport in many cases far more easily, and far faster. There was no aim for a display of lack of manners, as I too believe that proper manners (reigi, saho) are integral to the arts we study. However, I would caution that there is another lesson to be taken from them... namely that the application of one form of etiquette in a different environment can lead to being killed (historically and martially speaking). In other words, you need to learn to adapt to the environment you find yourself in. Honestly, I am not Japanese, and neither are you. Neither of us is in Japan, either. You are in the US, I am in Australia. Employing Japanese honorifics on a US-based, English language forum from one non-Japanese to another non-Japanese is, well, just misreading the environment you're in. I appreciate the thoughts behind it, but it's not really necessary, nor really suitable when all is said and done. But more to the point, doesn't it strike you as a bit hypocritical to tell me you won't change the way you address me, but insist that I address you in very specific ways? After all, while I do respect you, and hope to gain some insight into another branch of my arts from you, you are not my sensei. It would be inappropriate for me (or anyone who isn't your student) to address you as such, really. This is a public forum, not your dojo, and I'm approaching you as an equal here, which is really what we are (I could pull rank here, for the record, but won't), not a student. When all's said and done, it's not up to you who posts what, or what terms they use. I can respect your wishes, certainly... but to do so when you're not respecting mine would be a little, well, odd.

Now that that's out of the way, were you able to, or willing to answer the questions I asked?

 

[Duke Meade]

Chris san, if you did not get what I posted earlier, there is no further point of talking with you. Good day!

 

[Chris Parker]

Are you referring to your comments on manners, or your answer to previous questions? If the former, I suggest you missed what I was saying. If the latter, look to post 27 on the previous page. They haven't been addressed or answered yet...

 

[yorkshirelad]

What a bizarre conversation!

 

[elder999]

Yeah, just pullin' the yardstick right out of that bear, and pokin' him with it! :lfao: