Legitimacy of Lau Gar Kuen

ronki23

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Lau Gar Kuen traces its roots to an individual named Lam Sam Ngan in the Kong Sai (Guanxi) province of China: eventually Jeremy Yau learns this style and brings this to the UK. However, you don't see this style in Hong Kong or China: it's known as Hung Gar there and Lau Gar is only one part of the Hung Gar system's 5 families styles. This style is only popular in the United Kingdom: if you look for Kung Fu elsewhere you will only find Hung Gar on San Shou/ Sanda.

Lau Gar is utilised in so-called kickboxing but the majority of Lau Gar practitioners have been successful in pointfighting or above-waist competitions; if it's a Southern style then why isn't it used more in K-1 or Oriental rules as the ground in South China is harder?

Why is it called Kong Sai on the official Lau Gar website and why do some people call the grappling Kam La when it's meant to be called Chin Na or Shuia Jiao

You do not see many, if any, Lau Gar practitioners in MMA; if it's a complete system and includes grappling (Kam La) then why are practitioners learning BJJ ? Even if we forget MMA for now, none of these Lau Gar fighters are even in top 20 for kickboxing. The best kickboxers include:

Giorgio Petrosyan
Rob Kaman
Branko Cikatic
Semmy Schilt
Ernesto Hoost
Peter Aerts
Rico Verhoeven
Alistair Overeem
Badr Hari
Mirko Cro Cop

Pointfighting has bad habits in the form of the side on stance (vulnerability to leg kicks) and low guard.







I'm not saying what I learned was the best but I learned Praying Mantis-based kickboxing from Wutan at Southampton Solent University and that was superior. Some Wutan guys competed in Muay Thai and when I was at University, a number of our guys came back with Gold Medals at both the Leeds University Championships (Gold 2010; 2014, Silver 2014;2015, Bronze 2014;2015 X 2) and WAKO British Championship (Gold 2012; 2014, Silver 2013; 2014; 2015 x 2).
 
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Oily Dragon

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Lau Gar Kuen traces its roots to an individual named Lam Sam Ngan in the Kong Sai (Guanxi) province of China: eventually Jeremy Yau learns this style and brings this to the UK. However, you don't see this style in Hong Kong or China: it's known as Hung Gar there and Lau Gar is only one part of the Hung Gar system's 5 families styles. This style is only popular in the United Kingdom: if you look for Kung Fu elsewhere you will only find Hung Gar on San Shou/ Sanda.

Lau Gar is utilised in so-called kickboxing but the majority of Lau Gar practitioners have been successful in pointfighting or above-waist competitions; if it's a Southern style then why isn't it used more in K-1 or Oriental rules as the ground in South China is harder?
There are actually two different Lau family lineages.

The Lau Ga lineage in the UK you refer to is not the same as the Lau Ga southern family styles that crossed with Hung Ga Kuen and the other 3 families.

Jeremy Yau is not an authority on native (southern 5 family) Lau Ga Kuen, he created his own system based on a mishmosh of stuff, which is actually pretty common outside of China. There are some overlaps (five animals etc, low kicks etc).
 
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ronki23

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There are actually two different Lau family lineages.

The Lau Ga lineage in the UK you refer to is not the same as the Lau Ga southern family styles that crossed with Hung Ga Kuen and the other 3 families.

Jeremy Yau is not an authority on native (southern 5 family) Lau Ga Kuen, he created his own system based on a mishmosh of stuff, which is actually pretty common outside of China. There are some overlaps (five animals etc, low kicks etc).

There aren't low kicks in Lau Gar that I know of. Lau Gar has been used 'successfully ' in above waist kickboxing but as I said before, I wouldn't even put a Lau Gar practitioner in my top 10 K1 kickboxers, maybe top 20.

I don't know enough about the grappling in Lau Gar.

Even the belt system is obscure: blue is the second sash even though Japanese and Korean systems put blue between green and purple.
 

Oily Dragon

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There aren't low kicks in Lau Gar that I know of. Lau Gar has been used 'successfully ' in above waist kickboxing but as I said before, I wouldn't even put a Lau Gar practitioner in my top 10 K1 kickboxers, maybe top 20.

I don't know enough about the grappling in Lau Gar.

Even the belt system is obscure: blue is the second sash even though Japanese and Korean systems put blue between green and purple.
Lau Ga Kuen (the southern five family style) is a very old martial arts discipline. That's the lineage of Three Eyed Lau, AKA 銝. He may or may have not ever existed, but his heritage remains.

What you're calling "Lau Gar" is actually a British import combining a lot of different martial arts. It borrows the surname Lau, but is mish mosh of material.

Lau Ga Kuen (China) is a rich tradition of weapons, techniques, and general martial badassery.

 
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ronki23

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Lau Ga Kuen (the southern five family style) is a very old martial arts discipline. That's the lineage of Three Eyed Lau, AKA 銝. He may or may have not ever existed, but his heritage remains.

What you're calling "Lau Gar" is actually a British import combining a lot of different martial arts. It borrows the surname Lau, but is mish mosh of material.

Lau Ga Kuen (China) is a rich tradition of weapons, techniques, and general martial badassery.


Jeremy Yau was taught by Yau Luk Sau (his grandfather) and Yau Luk Sau was taught by Lam Sam Ngan.

The only remarkable fighter who knows Lau Gar is Tom 'Kong' Watson who fought for the UFC and he's a green sash (4th grade) in it. I don't know who taught him: probably Humphrey Broomes (one of Jeremy Yau's students).
Even if Tom Watson has a green sash in Lau Gar, he's also an orange belt in Kyokushin Karate and has extensive Muay Thai training from Sean Toomey and the Keddle brothers. He's also got a very good amateur boxing record.

I just can't see anything great about Lau Gar: full body uniforms and backfist-reverse punch don't float my boat. I prefer Dutch kickboxing.
 

Oily Dragon

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Jeremy Yau was taught by Yau Luk Sau (his grandfather) and Yau Luk Sau was taught by Lam Sam Ngan.
I'm gonna go out on a limb and say there are probably a few more people in between Lam Sam Ngan and Jeremy Yau, because LSN was alive possibly sometime in the 18th century, and Jeremy is still alive now, last I checked.
 

clfsean

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Jeremy Yau was taught by Yau Luk Sau (his grandfather) and Yau Luk Sau was taught by Lam Sam Ngan.

The only remarkable fighter who knows Lau Gar is Tom 'Kong' Watson who fought for the UFC and he's a green sash (4th grade) in it. I don't know who taught him: probably Humphrey Broomes (one of Jeremy Yau's students).
Even if Tom Watson has a green sash in Lau Gar, he's also an orange belt in Kyokushin Karate and has extensive Muay Thai training from Sean Toomey and the Keddle brothers. He's also got a very good amateur boxing record.

I just can't see anything great about Lau Gar: full body uniforms and backfist-reverse punch don't float my boat. I prefer Dutch kickboxing.
So ... if you don't see anything great ... why bother?
 
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ronki23

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So ... if you don't see anything great ... why bother?
Because I didn't realise until I studied Wutan/ Praying Mantis kickboxing that you don't need to do pointfighting, keep your hands low or stand side-on. Even while studying both at the same time I was ignorant.

Regret
 

clfsean

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Because I didn't realise until I studied Wutan/ Praying Mantis kickboxing that you don't need to do pointfighting, keep your hands low or stand side-on. Even while studying both at the same time I was ignorant.

Regret
That sounds more like a teacher issue. But still again ... why bother? It sounds like you're looking for agreement/empathy from your POV on a less than stellar experience. You said you prefer Dutch Kickboxing. Go to Amersterdam and be redeemed & renewed.
 
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ronki23

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That sounds more like a teacher issue. But still again ... why bother? It sounds like you're looking for agreement/empathy from your POV on a less than stellar experience. You said you prefer Dutch Kickboxing. Go to Amersterdam and be redeemed & renewed.

I mean I competed locally with limited success but most of the clubs were Lau Gar / had the same lineage: one had a Goju Ryu lineage but in competition they too had side on stance / low hands.

The Wutan was technically Chinese kickboxing but it wasn't San Shou / Sanda because the stance wasn't like San Shou / Sanda. Many Wutan guys fought under Muay Thai rules. The kicks were Thai style unlike Lau Gar's chambered kicks
 

Oily Dragon

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I mean I competed locally with limited success but most of the clubs were Lau Gar / had the same lineage: one had a Goju Ryu lineage but in competition they too had side on stance / low hands.

The Wutan was technically Chinese kickboxing but it wasn't San Shou / Sanda because the stance wasn't like San Shou / Sanda. Many Wutan guys fought under Muay Thai rules. The kicks were Thai style unlike Lau Gar's chambered kicks
Yeah, see traditional Lau Ga Kuen doesn't use chambered kicks, so that must be something Jeremy added.

Never saw a chambered kick in CMA actually.
 

geezer

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Yeah, see traditional Lau Ga Kuen doesn't use chambered kicks, so that must be something Jeremy added.

Never saw a chambered kick in CMA actually.
I don't know so much about a lot of CMA outside what I've personally trained.

The first "CMA" I trained DID have chambered kicks ....but later I learned that it wasn't really CMA at all but more like a "kung-fooey" version of Kempo being marketed as CMA (since Kung-fu was a big deal in the 70s).

Then I got into Wing Chun (a couple of different branches) and the kicks were low, direct, and not chambered nor retracted.

Is this equally true for WC's southern cousins?
 

Kung Fu Wang

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Who is that guy in the middle? His foot moves when leans backwards in the kick. No root, no structure, no kick, and, apparently no shame either.
Your opponent punches at your face. You lean back and kick his chest. Since your leg is longer than his arm, his arm cannot touch your face.

The body lean back is at the end of the final power generation. The contact of your foot and your opponent's chest can give you extra balance.

old_man_front_kick.jpg
 
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Wing Woo Gar

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The long fist front kick starts from a golden rooster stance with toes pointing up and finish with a downward curve. That's a chambered kick.



Your opponent punches at your face. You lean back and kick his chest. Since your leg is longer than his arm, his arm cannot touch your face.

The body lean back is at the end of the final power generation. The contact of your foot and your opponent's chest can give you extra balance.

View attachment 29374
I understand but I dont like it. I walk through that kind of kick quite easily. I think leaning back like that is asking for it. I have a feeling it wont work on your wrestling style either.
 

EskrimaFan

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Dutch style Kickboxing has nothing to do with Kung Fu, so alot of the people mentioned in the list in the first post have no Kung Fu connection.

Btw I saw someone telling you to go to Amsterdam, but Kickboxing in the Netherlands is very common and you can practice it in almost every city.
 
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