Kung Fu-High Fees Normal?

[TigerWoman]

My daughter (midnightninja), college age, just joined a Kung Fu school. She's a 1st dan in TKD and nearly got to 2nd. But at this new KF school, she just got notified that she should go into "leadership training" or offered it already. That entails 500. upfront, plus 200. a month for 36 months and he thinks she will get a black belt in 24 months. That last part especially worried me. She's in the Phoenix area.

Anybody think this is exorbitant fees? I do. Anybody think this was offered a little too soon? I do. Anybody worried about the instructor come-on. I do, especially with my present knowledge of instructors. TW

 

[Matt Stone]

TW -

The whole thing smacks of questionability... Tell her to run, as fast as she can, away from that school.

Any school that predicts, based upon your first "interview," that you will make a senior grade within a given period of time is either a) trying to sell you, or b) trying to stroke you.

Either one is unacceptable.

I know a guy that I think is in the Phoenix area that teaches Yiliquan (or at least trains with some folks, passing on the info to them). If you'd like to contact me via email, I would be happy to put them in touch with each other.

 

[TigerWoman]

Thanks for the reply, I hope she reads this and contacts you. TW

 

[midnightninja]

Well, my instructor didn't give me a guarentee that I'd get a black belt in 24 months. a white belt goes through 6 months of basic training, and afterwards he/she moves onto the leadership training, which is the main study of kung fu. He said that because of my past experience and my dedication to it, I've learned quickly beyond the other students so he gave me an opportunity, after 3 weeks, to progress into the leadership training. The fees are for everyone so it wasn't specialized for me. He said that the typical martial artist there takes 36 months to become a black belt, but the minimum requirement is 24 months. He said I can take however long I need, but he said that it is possible to do in 24 months since there have been a few students, especially those with a martial arts background, who have. He said that it takes a lot of practice, commitment, and perseverence to do it and from what he saw he said I would probably be capable of doing such. The question I am asking is this: there is a $500 fee just to start the program and then another $200 a month for 36 months, then it's dropped to $50 a month for however long I wish to stay. What's the typical price when studying kung fu? Is this too high of a price?

God bless,
.:midnightninja:.

 

[clfsean]

That reeks of "McDojo" or in this case "McKwoon".

At my kwoon, the price is fixed for 7 days of training at $75.
--There's no time limit on any thing.
--If you learn fast, you move fast. If not, you don't.
--There's no ranking to test/buy. You're either student or sifu.

Leadership is learned through interaction at the school, not an extra fee or class. There are people in the class who naturally step up & take a lead role & others who don't.

This course looks at $500 down, $200 p/m for 36 months... a total of $7700 for what? For an ability that is already found in each of us... nah. I'd pass & try a different school.

What's the name of this place & where in Phoenix is it?

 

[7starmantis]

Yeah, it does sound a little questionable to me as well. We have an instructor program at my school for those that are really wanting to open a school someday, they get to learn how to teach, how the business aspect of it works and get lots of experience in teaching classes and watching classes. Its only a one year program, but the cost is about half of the one you were told about. When they finish they have material and knowledge about how to run a school and that I think is worth it. Also, they are not promised any particular belt, they still have to put in their time to progress if they are really serious. I've been at my school now for over 3 years and I had alot of previous training in kung fu. I'm brown 2 level and my next test will be black, but probably not for almost another year and I train 3 hours every day and go to 6 classes a week.

The part that really bothers me is the time for the rank, sounds like they are trying to sell you. The other thing is what do you get out of the leadership program? Just the quick belt? That doesnt' seem worth it to me.

What is their skill level like? Do you know the name of the Sifu, I might be able to shed some light on that as well. I know a guy who trains in that area in wushu and some mantis, his school seems very legit, the sifu was a memeber of the Beijing National Wushu Team I believe, if your interested I can contact him about some info.

Just be careful, I would say the typical price per month for kung fu (not taking into consideration location) is probably around $80 - $100 a month. Does the school offer a cheaper price to still train and not be in the leadership program? $50 a month is a pretty good price, but it better be after shelling out 7K.

7sm

 

[clfsean]

Does the school offer a cheaper price to still train and not be in the leadership program? $50 a month is a pretty good price, but it better be after shelling out 7K.

7sm

Shoot... after 7k almost 8k, I better be on the train for free program!!! I just paid a year of college for the kids or braces!!:whip:

 

[RHD]

This is very unusual for a kung fu school. How long has this program been offered? It's definately the kind of practice that one should approach with caution and/or common sense.

Mike

 

[Enson]

i don't study kung fu but after seeing those fees i'm glad i don't. sounds like you are going to make his new car payment. 500 down and 200 monthly. i would ask what interest rate he has and who financed him. hee hee! look around. sometimes the most flashy school/dojo/kwoon are not the best. did anyone see "karate kid"? hee hee! (joke) just be careful.

 

[RHD]

i don't study kung fu but after seeing those fees i'm glad i don't. sounds like you are going to make his new car payment. 500 down and 200 monthly. i would ask what interest rate he has and who financed him. hee hee! look around. sometimes the most flashy school/dojo/kwoon are not the best. did anyone see "karate kid"? hee hee! (joke) just be careful.

Enson, don't let this one school (or any others you may have recently read about on this forum) influence your opinions of Chinese martial arts. This kind of business practice has until now, been an exception in CMA, not the rule.

Mike

 

[Enson]

Enson, don't let this one school (or any others you may have recently read about on this forum) influence your opinions of Chinese martial arts. This kind of business practice has until now, been an exception in CMA, not the rule.

Mike

i know your right. just seems weird that it would be so much money. i guess i'll look more into "say fong kuen". hee hee! (joke)

 

[Jim Perkins]

Well, my instructor didn't give me a guarentee that I'd get a black belt in 24 months. a white belt goes through 6 months of basic training, and afterwards he/she moves onto the leadership training, which is the main study of kung fu. He said that because of my past experience and my dedication to it, I've learned quickly beyond the other students so he gave me an opportunity, after 3 weeks, to progress into the leadership training. The fees are for everyone so it wasn't specialized for me. He said that the typical martial artist there takes 36 months to become a black belt, but the minimum requirement is 24 months. He said I can take however long I need, but he said that it is possible to do in 24 months since there have been a few students, especially those with a martial arts background, who have. He said that it takes a lot of practice, commitment, and perseverence to do it and from what he saw he said I would probably be capable of doing such. The question I am asking is this: there is a $500 fee just to start the program and then another $200 a month for 36 months, then it's dropped to $50 a month for however long I wish to stay. What's the typical price when studying kung fu? Is this too high of a price?

Yes thats alot to high if you have the skills to learn at quicker pace then others you should not be charged for it! It sounds like you and your skills are being taken advantage of. I think you might try looking at other schools in the Phonex area I know others teaching Kung Fu there including myself who would teach a skilled student like yourself at a fraction of that cost because you can learn quicker and need less instruction then others and would be an asset to the school.

Jim Perkins
http://www.pyonghwado.com

 

[midnightninja]

the website of my school is: unitedmartialtarts.com

the leadership training isn't a special training, it's the standard learning of the kung fu art. It doesn't just teach you if you want to run your own school. It costs $100 a month to do basic training but it jumps up to do the leadership training. it just seems incredibly high but I don't know if it's just a good school or not. There are many people who are in it, and they have multiple schools within an area due to the amount of people joining. I'd hate to just drop the school just because of price, I just would like to know if this is something worth pursuing or not I guess. Thank you all your your input, it's helped a lot!!

.:Midnightninja:.

 

[clfsean]

the website of my school is: unitedmartialtarts.com

the leadership training isn't a special training, it's the standard learning of the kung fu art. It doesn't just teach you if you want to run your own school. It costs $100 a month to do basic training but it jumps up to do the leadership training. it just seems incredibly high but I don't know if it's just a good school or not. There are many people who are in it, and they have multiple schools within an area due to the amount of people joining. I'd hate to just drop the school just because of price, I just would like to know if this is something worth pursuing or not I guess. Thank you all your your input, it's helped a lot!!

.:Midnightninja:.

Run away... don't walk calmly... run screaming....

from the site...

He holds 6th Degree Black Belts in Kung Fu and Kajukenbo and a 4th Degree Black Belts in Judo and Chung Moo Doe

Flags anybody???

In fact from the http://www.unitedmartialarts.com/uma_website006.htm page of the website, you'll notice the adults, juniors & youth being graded in "sections". The screams of Chung Moo Doe.

I'll need to hunt it up but if you're interested I'll pull some info about Chung Moo Doe/Quan for you & you can choose for yourself.

If you'd like to study a verified, viable, useable Chinese Martial Art, let me know & I'll be glad to help you hunt one up, but this place rings of bad things to me.

 

[Matt Stone]

The simple fact that the instructor is a former Chung Moo Doe black belt, and that he continues to refer to that as a good thing, makes me think this is not on the up and up.

His reference to a "6th degree black belt" in kung fu (what style?) is another red flag... It isn't necessarily a bad thing, mind you, but it seems overly vague.

Further, ...

At United Martial Arts, we teach the most complete and comprehensive martial art anywhere, focusing on the internal skills of:

Kung Fu, Tai Chi Chuan and BaguaZhang

Supplemented with applicable techniques from:

Jujitsu, Aikido, Karate, and more!​

Again, what style of "kung fu?" The Tai Chi page reeks of "Tai Cheese." Do they practice fighting with their Tai Chi, or are they just looking good in their silk PJs while moving in slow motion? What kind of Bagua are they practicing? I'd love more details on that, especially given the fact that the Chung Moo Doe people have been claiming for the last few years to teach Ba Gwa Chang or some such thing that doesn't look even remotely like Baguazhang at all...

With the "supplementation" and the prevalence of TKD uniforms it'd seem this isn't "kung fu" at all...

Just some observations. I apologize if I sound harsh, but this is a subject near and dear to my heart...

:asian:

 

[The Kai]

Look at the class schedual thet seem to know it all and teach even more!!

 

[Enson]

it says he is a member or studied "wu-tang". i wonder if he was with method man or ol' dirty bastard? (wu tang clan, rap group) hee hee! (joke)

 

[Jade Tigress]

TW -

The whole thing smacks of questionability... Tell her to run, as fast as she can, away from that school.

Any school that predicts, based upon your first "interview," that you will make a senior grade within a given period of time is either a) trying to sell you, or b) trying to stroke you.

Either one is unacceptable.

I know a guy that I think is in the Phoenix area that teaches Yiliquan (or at least trains with some folks, passing on the info to them). If you'd like to contact me via email, I would be happy to put them in touch with each other.

I agree. Sounds fishy. I pay $50 month but I think pricing has alot to do with the area. I'm in a small town, I'm sure fees are higher in metropolitan areas.

As clfsean stated, leadership is learned through interaction at the school, not an extra fee or class.

The time for 1st degree bb for an average student at my school is approximately 6 years give or take depending on the student. The instructor tests when he decides that student is ready to test. There is no definite time frame. Brown belt students are required to have a certain number of teaching hours as part of the bb requirements. There are no additional fees. It is part of the learning process. Often, even at my low level (yellow sash), if I'm required to explain something to a white belt it forces me to think of the technique in a whole new way. Having to teach is part of the learning process. Also there is no style of Kung Fu specified. What exactly is he teaching?

 

[7starmantis]

I'm not usually one to talk bad about anyone, but looking at the website and the fees, I personally wouldn't train there. Alot of it has to do with the teachers skill, but if the pictures of his studetns represent his skill, I'm not extremely impressed. The few pictures on the website have high stances, sloppy stances, and most kung fu people dont use karate type gi. The sparring looks way too much TKD to be kung fu. The moving up of students with the high fees just screams a school there for money only. In my personal opinion, I wouldnt train there, but its all your choice. Looking at all the info, it doesn't seem the student is getting way they are paying for, and payig way too much for even that.

7sm

 

[Gary Crawford]

I'm no expert in the subject of Kung Fu,but 36 monthes seems like a short time to get to black belt.