kung fu on the internet

[prairiemantis]

hey so i have a question( as it pertains to me south mantis is the topic) or thought for you all, and it may seem odd i dont know. probably already been addressed.

i have been posting spm videos of my mantis ( 90% jook lum,) off and on now for like six+ years, as some of you have probably noticed, maybe you havnt. some of my videos are funny and distorted, some are shown clearly. i post a video then after some time i start questioning the concept of the internet and i delete them. kind of annoying maybe, but there you find me questioning it all. do you feel as a student/teacher/practitioner that openly sharing mantis videos with the world via youtube/internet is the wrong things to do? i struggle with this. i know that you probably cant learn mantis from a video so im not worried about taking away from schools, more like is it just bad taste to display so openly what takes so long to understand,does this take away from the traditional aspect of the art. another thought that comes to my mind is what about those people within school "a" who view a video from school "b" add it into there practice with out giving acknowledgment on even the smallest level for what could be considered a free kung fu lesson. i know personally i have adapted some training i have seen people display and am grateful for that,(sifu whitrods 36 point comes to mind, i love that set, grantedi gave it my character, i know it still came from a source outside my immediate circle) do you think that this type of thing is a step back from what spm is or isnt ment to be? or do you think that the openness serves to point people in the direction of improvement and therefor we should ignore the taboo all together? with the internet it becomes clear good and bad are present, i guess its the level of participation im questioning..... i see some people out there that seem overly antagonistic and id say almost mean spirited toward what is suppose to be a respectful way of life. now everyone shoots off at the mouth on occasion so thats to be expected, we have all done it to a degree. i also see displays of what is labeled spm and i think to myself WTF thats terrible ( i learned not leave those types of comments but still some really bad stuff displayed under the southern mantis name.) and sometimes i think to myself god thats what people think of when they hear the name tong long pai. i personally do enjoy sharing with and learning from people i may never actually meet in person, but admittedly i deleted my videos to avoid the issues surrounding , but now i question if i did manage to avoid anything. SO these are some of the thoughts in my head today. now im off to my basement cave for some actual kung fu practice.

 

[Eric_H]

Hey PrarieMantis,

It think it's best to show things to a certain point and then not beyond it. Document enough on video to show what you've got, then leave the rest for live training.

Also - i thought SPM = Chu Ga Tong Long.

 

[prairiemantis]

your right eric chu gar is part of the spm family---. also i hear you , but what is that "certain point", you know what im saying? some people consider it ok to be knocking people out for the camera, thats obviously not good on a bunch of levels,. some people might think its better to only display two man drills vs. single man drills.
i should also say that you can put any style in place of spm for this question. its just how i can relate personally. my videos are i.m.o irrelevant and really just used as an example for the question.

 

[Eric_H]

PraireMantis,

I'm not sure how Jook Lum is organized, perhaps there are some basic level forms you could show apps out of and maybe some chy sau if you guys do that.

I look at the example of Dr. Xie Peiqi - he documented 1/2 his system extensively on DVD, if you wanted the rest you had to go to him.

My org makes it pretty easy - we have a reasonably strict no videos rule

 

[prairiemantis]

1/2 and 1/2. thats interesting enough...can i ask why does wudang bagua have a no video rule?
i was always told by my sifu to feel free, but to use discretion if sharing hands via video. i figure this is cause people are ignorant and will try to replicate things they dont understand and in turn hurt themselves or others, or they will not see the video clearly and miss things( this is inevitable as videos do not replace hands on instruction..). perhaps my struggle with internet sharing comes from giving out the arts in a non personal manner, the inability to screen someones intent prior. not that all teachers care about this aspect, as some real tools train in martial arts , but then on the flip side sharing openly can prove very rewarding. i have met a few very good people by posting videos in the past. i resolved the first issue for the moment by deleting video posts, but i have a feeling ill put some things back up at some point. maybe ill just flip a coin...heads i participate int eh internet fare trade community, tails i dont.... after all the video flood gates have no doubt opened up already.

 

[clfsean]

I don't put anything up simply because I don't "perform" well for the camera & I'm ugly as hell.

Two really good reasons!!!

Besides there's plenty of CLF out there, both good & bad. If anybody's interested in what I do... come play!! Let's bang around for a little while, then go have a beer afterwards. Otherwise, videos from are not going to happen.

 

[prairiemantis]

clf---thats the best reasoning yet!

 

[prairiemantis]

the more i think about it the more i am viewing the web as a very sharp double edge. the vast amount of information available on all fronts can lesson the burden for so many things. the ability to compare and research things such as MA, but then.. . the distant remove; of lets, say sacredness possibly taking away from things real.... this thought stems deeper than martial arts,that's just what we all have in common here. just look at wikipedia.a super cool thing with lots and lots of truth, there is also so much garbage-misinformation put out by wackos and weirdos...it would be nice if the future of martial arts sharing and truth seeking on the web would stay with in the realm of reason....i guess you can take it all as food for thought...the only secret to MA is in you.

 

[Domino]

Interpret as you choose and find your way, thats what I've been told.
What puts me off with the internet is those who just don't want to learn or understand, who speak before they think.
Not got time for arguements, also try and follow others examples of keeping it modest and only divulge information on different levels depending who it is.

 

[Xue Sheng]

I don't put anything up simply because I don't "perform" well for the camera & I'm ugly as hell.

Although I am a mountain of a main with the body of Adonis and the good looks of an old school movie star I do not put up videos because if anyone were to watch the videos I posted they would go blind from over-exposure to pure awesomeness… but…as always… there is no charge for awesomeness... or attractiveness… :mst:

Truth be known I don’t do it because I don’t have much use for it and frankly I don’t much care for the concept

 

[Flying Crane]

My sifu uses the internet as examples of how NOT to do our system. He ushers us into his computer room and plays the latest video of our system that he has found, and he laughs and laughs because so much that is posted is really of very low quality. He actually says to us, "you need to work more on that, it's not up to par yet...you wanna look like what's on Youtube??!!" The derision is obvious.

The problem with videos is that it just doesn't capture what is really going on. It shows the shell of the method, but fails to illustrate the important foundational stuff. I just believe it cannot be captured and conveyed in a meaninful way. So people look at the video and they think that if they wave their arms around and jump here and there and imitate what they see going on in the video, then they've "got it". But they haven't got it, they just have shown that they are able to mimick and can learn choreography. They absolutely do not understand what is going on underneath.

So the very medium just does not do much justice to the method. In that light, I don't see much point in it.

Sifu told me once that many decades ago when he used to have a school that was open to the public (we just train in his back yard now), people would stop and look in the window and watch the class. Some of the students would ask if they should chase the spectators away, and sifu would ask them, "why?" they would say, "well they might try to steal our stuff!" To this, sifu would say, "well if they can watch from a window and TRULY learn and grasp what we are doing, then they DESERVE TO HAVE IT". In truth, anybody watching from the window will not truly learn or grasp it, at best they may steal a little bit of hollow choreography. So it doesn't matter, nobody can really steal it in that way. Same thing with video.

I don't post videos because I don't feel inclined to lay out for the world what I am working on. My training is personal and private and I hold it close. I'm not interested in comments from people who have no understanding of what I train (my system is a rare one so it's unlikely to find someone in a position to offer meaningful comments), I'm not interested in showing off, and I'm not interested in falling under the ridicule of my sifu when he would inevitably discover my videos.