Krav Maga grading

pdg

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More advanced as in dealing with different types of attacks like roundhouse kicks or dealing with multiple attackers which can be taught early but your best off getting the basics down first. Also stuff like gun attacks and knife disarms. Early level has defences for knife attack but no disarms the early knife work is get distance on them then get out of there. More advanced will be disarming techniques I assume

Ah, OK.

So fair to say the basics lessons are aimed at defence against a brawler type attack(which is undoubtedly much more common anyway), while advanced moves into how to cope against a more skilled opponent?
 
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Ah, OK.

So fair to say the basics lessons are aimed at defence against a brawler type attack(which is undoubtedly much more common anyway), while advanced moves into how to cope against a more skilled opponent?
I see that said a lot about Krav Maga and don't really understand it (not saying your saying this but it's what I see a lot)

People say oh Krav Maga doesn't work against martial artists...but so far at basic level. We have defence against, straight punches, hook punches, uppercuts, front kicks and chokes and takedowns. Those are all things that a trained guy will use. Really there's not much difference between a brawler and a trained guy especially in the streets. A lot of technique goes out the window even in the ring technique can look sloppy when done for real.

Again I'm not saying this to you but just addressing that point in general
 

pdg

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Yeah, that's not what I was saying ;)

More advanced techniques that are executed properly need more advanced defences.

I don't watch many fights, but the ones I've seen the technique gets sloppy because they either get tired or they're out of their depth.

If a trained artist looks sloppy "in the street" they aren't applying their training properly.

so far at basic level. We have defence against, straight punches, hook punches, uppercuts, front kicks and chokes and takedowns. Those are all things that a trained guy will use.

With regard to what I said above, a trained guy will probably use those, but should use them differently compared to a brawler.

The difference in use (a much more calculated application, with better control) means you have to be at the next level up to deal with them.
 

Hanzou

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What you've managed to point out is that you've utterly misunderstood the philosophy.

If you with your BJJ think you can step into a boxing ring and win a boxing match you are seriously deluded.

Ditto wrestling, or almost any other art.

This is because you'll either lose dismally or be disqualified within seconds for using illegal moves.

I couldn't ever expect to enter a BJJ competition and win it using TKD, because almost everything I would do is outlawed in those competitions.

Doesn't mean it's not effective outside that ruleset though.

Uh, that's exactly what they were saying. Again, I was never told that I could win in a boxing match or a wrestling match under wrestling or boxing rules because that argument is patently absurd. However, we were always taught how to counter those types of fighters, and if boxers or wrestlers ever came to our school, we were able to use what we learned against them.

Schools make the argument about not being able to stop MMA exponents, boxers, and wrestlers because they know that saying the opposite will draw such people to their gyms and dojos to challenge them, or have their students go out and challenge those people and embarrass themselves.. So instead we get the typical "our martial art isn't about sports!" nonsense in order to cover their butts and avoid ever having to prove their efficacy to their students.

Hey, you got tooled by that boxer? No worries, the mythical bad guy in "tEh stREetz" is going to come at you with a knife and 4 buddies! You don't need to worry about getting stomped by that boxer, you need to worry about knife guy and his 4 friends!

I take the same from what @Headhunter said. His training isn't in any way prepping him to compete as a boxer, or a wrestler. Doesn't mean what he's learning won't work against them - it means he'd be kicked out of the competition.

Yep, that's exactly what they want you to believe. It's a truly amazing marketing tactic that clearly still works on the masses.
 
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Headhunter

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Uh, that's exactly what they were saying. Again, I was never told that I could win in a boxing match or a wrestling match under wrestling or boxing rules because that argument is patently absurd. However, we were always taught how to counter those types of fighters, and if boxers or wrestlers ever came to our school, we were able to use what we learned against them.

Schools make the argument about not being able to stop MMA exponents, boxers, and wrestlers because they know that saying the opposite will draw such people to their gyms and dojos to challenge them, or have their students go out and challenge those people and embarrass themselves.. So instead we get the typical "our martial art isn't about sports!" nonsense in order to cover their butts and avoid ever having to prove their efficacy to their students.

Hey, you got tooled by that boxer? No worries, the mythical bad guy in "tEh stREetz" is going to come at you with a knife and 4 buddies! You don't need to worry about getting stomped by that boxer, you need to worry about knife guy and his 4 friends!



Yep, that's exactly what they want you to believe. It's a truly amazing marketing tactic that clearly still works on the masses.
Go away please as I said I'm not turning a thread about my grading into one of your stupid arguments
 

pdg

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So anyway...

What's next with advanced lessons - more grades? Teaching?
 
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Headhunter

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So anyway...

What's next with advanced lessons - more grades? Teaching?
If I'm right you can only do one more grade at your own club. The rest of them you have to go away to camps to grade for. So I probably won't do that it's not worth it to me. Also I'm assisting twice a week with the kids classes.
 

drop bear

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Yeah, that's not what I was saying ;)

More advanced techniques that are executed properly need more advanced defences.

Not really. And especially not for self defense.

I mean what are these advanced defenses that you wouldn't be learning straight off the bat?
 

pdg

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Not really. And especially not for self defense.

I mean what are these advanced defenses that you wouldn't be learning straight off the bat?

I don't know, but I imagine defending against a punch from you would be a different proposition to defending against a punch from me.
 

drop bear

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I don't know, but I imagine defending against a punch from you would be a different proposition to defending against a punch from me.

It should be harder. But day one defence would work against both.
 

JR 137

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It should be harder. But day one defence would work against both.
Would or should? There’s a difference. Day one punch defense SHOULD work against a top rated boxer’s punch. I mean a punch is a punch, and a block is a block right? But that doesn’t mean it WILL work.

The difference should be the experienced defender seeing things the newbie doesn’t see - not falling for fakes, getting timing down, seeing the punch before it’s too late, not giving another opening during the block, not going into the fetal position, etc.

As to how an advanced punch block works, I have no idea. I’m still doing the same things I tried to do on day one. The differences are subtle, such as using better footwork and angles, but those blocks aren’t anything different. Maybe launching a counter before the block is completed, but that’s about it.

Maybe I misunderstood what you were getting at.
 

drop bear

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Would or should? There’s a difference. Day one punch defense SHOULD work against a top rated boxer’s punch. I mean a punch is a punch, and a block is a block right? But that doesn’t mean it WILL work.

The difference should be the experienced defender seeing things the newbie doesn’t see - not falling for fakes, getting timing down, seeing the punch before it’s too late, not giving another opening during the block, not going into the fetal position, etc.

As to how an advanced punch block works, I have no idea. I’m still doing the same things I tried to do on day one. The differences are subtle, such as using better footwork and angles, but those blocks aren’t anything different. Maybe launching a counter before the block is completed, but that’s about it.

Maybe I misunderstood what you were getting at.

I don't know. I get the impression people think they learn things in order of complexity and therefore effectiveness. And then have some sort of secret techniques in reserve king fu movie style.

My punch defenses work against bad and good punches based on my ability. So for me I don't do this haymaker punch/boxers punch silliness.

And nuance is application of that rather than this technique collection.

It is a super common thing.
 
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Monkey Turned Wolf

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Not really. And especially not for self defense.

I mean what are these advanced defenses that you wouldn't be learning straight off the bat?
A cross counter. Sinple movement but requires a good sense of timing and good observation skills. I suck at it, and couldnt imagine choosing to teach someone it straight off the bat, but it works.
 

JR 137

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I don't know. I get the impression people think they learn things in order of complexity and therefore effectiveness. And then have some sort of secret techniques in reserve king fu movie style.

My punch defenses work against bad and good punches based on my ability. So for me I don't do this haymaker punch/boxers punch silliness.

And nuance is application of that rather than this technique collection.

It is a super common thing.
When I said “SHOULD work against a top rated boxer’s punch” in my previous post, I didn’t mean some blocks will work against a good punch vs a bad punch; I meant it should work against every punch, including the best of the best. I mean, if you get your arm up in time for your hand to meet Mike Tyson’s wrist before he connects with your face, it’ll work. If you get your arm up to meet the 90 year old man who’s bed ridden’s wrist before his fist connects with your face, same thing.

Same block SHOULD work against both guys, and everyone in between. No need for an “advanced” block. But should and will are two different things. But yeah, I don’t see how an “advanced block” would work when a basic one wouldn’t. Then again, I don’t know any advanced blocks anyway. I’m still trying to perfect the basic ones that SHOULD work.
 

drop bear

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When I said “SHOULD work against a top rated boxer’s punch” in my previous post, I didn’t mean some blocks will work against a good punch vs a bad punch; I meant it should work against every punch, including the best of the best. I mean, if you get your arm up in time for your hand to meet Mike Tyson’s wrist before he connects with your face, it’ll work. If you get your arm up to meet the 90 year old man who’s bed ridden’s wrist before his fist connects with your face, same thing.

Same block SHOULD work against both guys, and everyone in between. No need for an “advanced” block. But should and will are two different things. But yeah, I don’t see how an “advanced block” would work when a basic one wouldn’t. Then again, I don’t know any advanced blocks anyway. I’m still trying to perfect the basic ones that SHOULD work.

Yeah but we do have that whole against a street fighter punch series of defenses.
 

pdg

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Yay, once again I inadvertently started a discussion by using stupid wording :D

OK, so...

Blocking my punch, you can use a "day one" block.

Blocking a good punch, you can use a "day one" block - but you're going to have to be better at applying it and reading the situation.

I.e. it'll have to be more advanced to deal with the more advanced attack...

Front kick? That gets different too. Someone can do a front kick like they're hoofing a ball and you can quite easily suppress the attack.

Someone does a more advanced front kick (like does it properly) you can use the same block but you'll have to better at it and yada yada...

Then there's reading what they're going to kick - one of my funnest things is to change what kick is coming, so lifting my knee looks front kick (no, I don't just hold it there...) but it might go either side of you, be a side kick or just be a front kick, at almost any height - the same simple block done well will work great against a lot of them, if it's put in the right place at the right time.

Sometimes I'll accept the one point from my crappy punch or punch combo, more often I'll punch to set up a kick - if I was actually fighting I certainly wouldn't rely on a punch.

So block my punch, I don't care because it's a throwaway anyway - you'll have to be better with application and reading to catch the following kick (unless you count my target as a blocking tool ;)).

And there's what happens next. That "day one" block might stop the best punches once it's developed a bit, but you'll more than likely need more than that to create an opening for counter or run away.


So yeah, I didn't mean "advanced" as in a 17 stage blocking dance to stop a predetermined punch/kick/elbow/headbutt combo...

I meant advanced was being better at doing the defence against someone who is better at attacking and being able to effectively follow it up.
 

JR 137

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Yay, once again I inadvertently started a discussion by using stupid wording :D

OK, so...

Blocking my punch, you can use a "day one" block.

Blocking a good punch, you can use a "day one" block - but you're going to have to be better at applying it and reading the situation.

I.e. it'll have to be more advanced to deal with the more advanced attack...

Front kick? That gets different too. Someone can do a front kick like they're hoofing a ball and you can quite easily suppress the attack.

Someone does a more advanced front kick (like does it properly) you can use the same block but you'll have to better at it and yada yada...

Then there's reading what they're going to kick - one of my funnest things is to change what kick is coming, so lifting my knee looks front kick (no, I don't just hold it there...) but it might go either side of you, be a side kick or just be a front kick, at almost any height - the same simple block done well will work great against a lot of them, if it's put in the right place at the right time.

Sometimes I'll accept the one point from my crappy punch or punch combo, more often I'll punch to set up a kick - if I was actually fighting I certainly wouldn't rely on a punch.

So block my punch, I don't care because it's a throwaway anyway - you'll have to be better with application and reading to catch the following kick (unless you count my target as a blocking tool ;)).

And there's what happens next. That "day one" block might stop the best punches once it's developed a bit, but you'll more than likely need more than that to create an opening for counter or run away.


So yeah, I didn't mean "advanced" as in a 17 stage blocking dance to stop a predetermined punch/kick/elbow/headbutt combo...

I meant advanced was being better at doing the defence against someone who is better at attacking and being able to effectively follow it up.
Exactly what I meant by the “day one block SHOULD work” against everything. How do you make that day one block work against everyone, from the worst to the best? There’s no substitute for experience. There’s nothing about that block that’s “advanced.” The wrist/forearm still connects with the strike the same way. But what’s advanced is being able to use it when your opponent is doing stuff along the lines of what you’re saying.

Technique doesn’t get too advanced. Being able to reliably use it does.
 

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So just finished my first Krav Maga grading, it was brutal 5 hours of hard work. The pad work lasted over an hour and the only break we got was holding pads for our partner (which is even more painful on the arms) but I passed. Not sure on what grade or percent but a pass is a pass so I'm happy.

Very much loving Krav Maga and now decided that's what I'm going to dedicate myself to. I'm going to stop bjj and Muay Thai. Nothing against them but this is what I want to commit to now. Plus my money circumstances have changed so can't afford as much so krav is now my main thing and on off days I'll work fitness and bag work.

Congratulations!
As far as I know Krav Maga teaches to avoid fighting on the ground. So you shouldn't worry about leaving bjj and Muay Thai, anyway you will get all required techniques for self defence including elements of ground fighting on the next grade. For me Krav Maga is the best combination of all martial arts. How do you think?
 

PhotonGuy

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So just finished my first Krav Maga grading, it was brutal 5 hours of hard work. The pad work lasted over an hour and the only break we got was holding pads for our partner (which is even more painful on the arms) but I passed. Not sure on what grade or percent but a pass is a pass so I'm happy.

Very much loving Krav Maga and now decided that's what I'm going to dedicate myself to. I'm going to stop bjj and Muay Thai. Nothing against them but this is what I want to commit to now. Plus my money circumstances have changed so can't afford as much so krav is now my main thing and on off days I'll work fitness and bag work.
Does Krav Maga even have grading? I was under the impression that it doesn't use any grading system. Anyway from what I do know about Krav Maga its designed to prepare you for real confrontations as opposed to styles that are more sport.
 
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Headhunter

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Does Krav Maga even have grading? I was under the impression that it doesn't use any grading system. Anyway from what I do know about Krav Maga its designed to prepare you for real confrontations as opposed to styles that are more sport.
Well I assume it does due to the fact I spent 5 hours doing one but you know I could be wrong lol
 
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