Koryo problems

[terryl965]

I have always been tought with Koryo it is a sidekick to the knee and then the ribcage, but at all tournament we do we get penalized because we do not shoot the second sidekick to the cieling. Most of the BB can kick to the cieling so it is not a matter of doing it, it becomes a matter of it not being right. When I talk to official they tell me I'm wrong but the KKW say the same thing knees and rib cage. Do I make the changes or just keep losing with this poomsae?

 

[Errant108]

If you're training for competition, then you have to do what it takes to win. If you have other reasons, then you have to weigh your priorities.

 

[terryl965]

If you're training for competition, then you have to do what it takes to win. If you have other reasons, then you have to weigh your priorities.

But even in competition you should follow the guidelines set forth by the governing body? So why do they not do that and who knows and probaly nobody cares about the Art when they are playing a game.

 

[Errant108]

File a grievance with your state association. Given past experience, I doubt it will do you any good.

 

[IcemanSK]

I checked the KKW textbook & it does say knee then rib/solar plexus. So that's the official way to do it.

However, for as long as I can remember, the "tournament version" has been a kick to the ceiling. As much as I hate to say it: teach the tournament version for tournaments only. Say, "ok, the correct way to do this technique is knee then solar plexus. For tournaments, throw the second to Andre the Giant's ear lobe."

Boon Hae sadly, is less important than how things look in tournaments.

 

[terryl965]

File a grievance with your state association. Given past experience, I doubt it will do you any good.

I know errant, nothing can change what is being done.

 

[terryl965]

I checked the KKW textbook & it does say knee then rib/solar plexus. So that's the official way to do it.

However, for as long as I can remember, the "tournament version" has been a kick to the ceiling. As much as I hate to say it: teach the tournament version for tournaments only. Say, "ok, the correct way to do this technique is knee then solar plexus. For tournaments, throw the second to Andre the Giant's ear lobe."

Boon Hae sadly, is less important than how things look in tournaments.

I know I just hate teaching what is not what they want.

 

[IcemanSK]

I know I just hate teaching what is not what they want.

Someday, the correct way will be allowed in the "traditional forms division" with all the karate guys who wear uniforms to mid calf. And "old guys" like you & me will be asked to judge those (cuz we are the only one's who know them). While XMA techniques dominate forms competitions.

 

[Errant108]

Boon Hae sadly, is less important than how things look in tournaments.

The bunhae doesn't require the second kick, since the arm you've trapped would be in the way.

 

[IcemanSK]

The bunhae doesn't require the second kick, since the arm you've trapped would be in the way.

Just looking at the textbook again shows a different thing altogether. It shows the double knifehand block simply blocking a midsection punch (no trapping involved) then the second side kick to the throat of the opponent.

So much for clarity.

 

[Errant108]

Just looking at the textbook again shows a different thing altogether. It shows the double knifehand block simply blocking a midsection punch (no trapping involved) then the second side kick to the throat of the opponent.

So much for clarity.

That's not bunhae. That's the official KKW explanation, which has little to do with any actual analysis of the movements derived from Okinawan kata.

Bunhae does not mean "application".

 

[Kacey]

I checked the KKW textbook & it does say knee then rib/solar plexus. So that's the official way to do it.

However, for as long as I can remember, the "tournament version" has been a kick to the ceiling. As much as I hate to say it: teach the tournament version for tournaments only. Say, "ok, the correct way to do this technique is knee then solar plexus. For tournaments, throw the second to Andre the Giant's ear lobe."

Boon Hae sadly, is less important than how things look in tournaments.

I agree... tournament competition is a game, and part of the game is watching the competitors, figuring out what the judges are looking for, and being able to adjust your own performance accordingly, usually at the competition itself. In too many cases, "flash" outweighs application in the judging of patterns - and this appears to be one of those cases.

 

[wade]

Do you train for local or national level competition? There is a difference. For local, kick high, for national follow the current WTF, not Kukkiwon, standards. I just did a poomsae seminar in New Orleans and they, the WTF, are death on those high kicks. At the local level though, 99 % of the people judging forms are not certified referees and this does make a difference. They tend to go for power and flash over correct technique. I have seen people do the forms complete wrong and still win because they looked really good doing it. Me, I train my players for the national level, win lose or draw. As far as I am concerned that is the way it is supposed to be and that is the way they will do it.

 

[cali_tkdbruin]

For older guys, low then middle kick is just fine in Koryo poomse. At least those of us grey beards are still training and kicking! Anyway, who can throw that 2nd kick that high anymore anyway... :shrug:

 

[YoungMan]

I have always taught it as low kick (checking technique), followed by high kick. I explain it as a checking kick in the style of a Taekkyon leg check, therefore not using penetrating power, followed by a head-level side kick.

 

[bluekey88]

We do low, mid for those kicks as well. However...for the kids on our competition team, we tend to make them learn two versions of each poomse. One for the school, and one for comps. It sucks, but that's the way it needs to be right now.

Peace,
Erik

 

[mango.man]

I too was always bummed when I would see my kid go out and do any poomse, the correct way but not win in competition. Then I found out something and had an epiphany about something else.

I found out that our old school grandmaster either was unaware of the changes made to various poomse over the years or refused to adopt those changes and therefore my kid really was doing them wrong.

But even so, the epiphany I has was to just tell her that while she is waiting for her turn, to watch the kids that go before her and watch what each judge scores for those kids and adjust her style accordingly. That resulted in many gold medals for forms. Only problem really occurred when she was first up. Then she was told to do it the way that generally scored the highest, i.e. kick the earthworms then the rafters and kihap so loud and long that you get everyone in the building to look at you KIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
There were times that she let some go that were 25-30 seconds long. Again, not the way it is supposed to be, but it usually scored big with the judges.

Now, because of the subjectivity of forms in competition environments, I save the additional 10 bucks that it usually costs to sign up for a second event, and we stick with sparring only

 

[Miles]

I agree with Wade. Teach it and train it the right way and the rest of the pack will have to catch up to you when they learn they are doing it wrong. Eventually the referees will start deducting for a high kick, just like they should deduct for middle punches in the second sequence of Taeguek 2.

Miles

 

[IcemanSK]

I agree with Wade. Teach it and train it the right way and the rest of the pack will have to catch up to you when they learn they are doing it wrong. Eventually the referees will start deducting for a high kick, just like they should deduct for middle punches in the second sequence of Taeguek 2.

Miles

Good anology, sir.

 

[newGuy12]

Winning in the competition is not NEARLY as good as learning the true forms. Forget the competition when compared to learning the proper way, it is not even CLOSE to having the same value. Everyone knows that.

Those who know the forms well can judge the forms. Other judges' opinions don't count for much, then. Why try to appease a judge that will not hold the form to the proper standard?

!!! Please, for the sake of TKD itself, don't compromise for the sake of these events!