What style of karate would korean karate be? There doesnt really seem to be so much of a this or that style thing going about with this school. So far the emphasis seems to be on sport karate. It feels like an effective way to handle myself so I am not too worried about whatever opinions there may be about it.
Korean karate?
- Thread starter Stuey
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I believe that this is a more complex question than you may think. First off, you have to examine the use of the term "Korean Karate." When the Koreans came to the US in the 50's and 60's to start teaching "Karate," they used the term Karate as a generic way of describing what they taught. You see, prior to that, Korea was under the control of Japan and during that time, Japanese martial arts had started to make their way into the US by way of the Military, of course they had just recently started, but had a head start on the Koreans. So Americans were more familiar with the term "Karate" than they were the terms "Tae Kwon Do" or "Tang Soo Do" or "Hapkido" etc.
So, basically when a school was labeled "Korean Karate" it could have been any one of a myriad Korean martial arts styles (most of which were heavily influenced by the Japanese anyway).
So then the question becomes, are you looking for what Japanese style equates to which Korean style? Or are you looking for what type of Korean Martial arts is generally referred to as "Korean Karate?"
So, basically when a school was labeled "Korean Karate" it could have been any one of a myriad Korean martial arts styles (most of which were heavily influenced by the Japanese anyway).
So then the question becomes, are you looking for what Japanese style equates to which Korean style? Or are you looking for what type of Korean Martial arts is generally referred to as "Korean Karate?"
Thanks for the further confusion guys. lol. Yeah, I think its similar to TKD, although arent some of the moves close anyways? It seems to be what I consider to be karate. Not very strong emphasis on grappling. Not leavin the head open, which is what all TKD seems to be to me, to do fancy kicking. There are some pretty kicks etc, although these seem to be pushed in a focus and ability sort of way rather than 'wouldnt it look cool if you could kick someone like that?'I have only attended since August. Plus I have ahad a week off, (and whatever of this week), with Flu! Ggrrr! I guess the only thing to do is to ask.
I think it's different in the UK where karate is definitely Japanese. TKD was introduced as such in the 1960s by one man so there has always been a recognisable difference in them. TKD is well known here as a Korean martial art, probably due to good marketing, but it is seen as distinct from other martial arts especially karate.
I do TSD which is very close to karate, though to my mind, simplified.
I do TSD which is very close to karate, though to my mind, simplified.
So this is a style that you have been practising and are trying to determine what its roots are?
If it is called Korean Karate, you may be better off looking in the Korean areas, as it will have much more in common with other Korean styles than with Japanese styles. Remember that Karate is a Japanese word and a Japanese style. The word Korean Karate is really an oxymoron....Karate is Japanese, not Korean. Many Americans like to think that Karate is just a generic term that can be applied to any martial art, but that is not true. Karate is a specific Japanese style.
So then the question becomes - do you want to know what your style's Korean roots are or its Japanese roots? MOST Korean styles were originally influenced by some Japanese martial art. But I may be complicating things. Your best bet is to first determine what Korean art you are practicing, then work on the history and influences.
Prior to TKD getting it's name in the '50s & early '60s, Korean (kick/punch) martial arts were known TangSooDo or KongSooDo, which are both direct Korean translations of the Japanese word "KaraTe-Do". In Japanese, the two words for China(Tang) hand and Empty Hand are homonyms (Kara Te).
Later in the '60s when the striking arts organized, they changed the name to TaeSooDo and then finally TaeKwonDo. Most TKD then eveolved into the sport oriened version we see today, dropping all the old form sets and creating new form sets that were different than the Japanese. Some TKD still may use the old Japanse forms, and TSD never changed (well the SooBahkDo guys added new form sets).
So saying "Korean Karate" to me is just the older tem for TSD/TKD/KSD. My first TKD dojang also had a huge sign that said "Korean Karate", and I saw very little difference between my TKD school and some other Japanese styles with the exception my TKD dojang also taught an additional form set (Palgwes) along side the Japanese forms (Pyung-ahn in Korean).
Later in the '60s when the striking arts organized, they changed the name to TaeSooDo and then finally TaeKwonDo. Most TKD then eveolved into the sport oriened version we see today, dropping all the old form sets and creating new form sets that were different than the Japanese. Some TKD still may use the old Japanse forms, and TSD never changed (well the SooBahkDo guys added new form sets).
So saying "Korean Karate" to me is just the older tem for TSD/TKD/KSD. My first TKD dojang also had a huge sign that said "Korean Karate", and I saw very little difference between my TKD school and some other Japanese styles with the exception my TKD dojang also taught an additional form set (Palgwes) along side the Japanese forms (Pyung-ahn in Korean).
Dave Leverich
Black Belt
We called ours Korean Karate in the 80's, it was the easiest way to get the point across to the public I think. My lineage was MDK, so a strong tie to Shotokan (although the TKD side of the split).
FieldDiscipline
2nd Black Belt
http://www.phoenixkarateschool.co.uk
Formed in 2007 after a disagreement with former friends/instructors. Like I say, I dont think this is TKD. It is most likely japanese karate, but with Korean terms, (note the lower ranks are still kyu not gup), and less japanese kata. I would say that the syllabus sticks to karate. What do I know though, right?
Also, the club has links to these assossiations/federations:
http://www.amauk.co.uk/
http://www.englishkaratefederation.com/
Formed in 2007 after a disagreement with former friends/instructors. Like I say, I dont think this is TKD. It is most likely japanese karate, but with Korean terms, (note the lower ranks are still kyu not gup), and less japanese kata. I would say that the syllabus sticks to karate. What do I know though, right?
Also, the club has links to these assossiations/federations:
http://www.amauk.co.uk/
http://www.englishkaratefederation.com/
dbell
Blue Belt
Ummm.. According to my study in history, both living in the US and in Korea, Tae Kwon Do is a renaming of Tang Soo Do Kwons and other schools that were merged together to form one universal, more "Korean" system?
Gordon Nore
Senior Master
Yes, I remember looking at the description on the back of an old video copy at Blockbuster years ago. Something like, 'a karate fight scene in the rare hapkido style.'
"Hapkido is most heavily influenced by Aikido"
How can you post this without any basis.
FYI Both arts were born about the same time. Both of the founders were influenced by the same teacher and went in two differnt directions. They are more like ugly cousins. Neither was influenced by each other except for some branches of hapkido that later joined with Aikido and blended. But that is a very specific group and happened way after each was born and thriving.
Dave O.
How can you post this without any basis.
FYI Both arts were born about the same time. Both of the founders were influenced by the same teacher and went in two differnt directions. They are more like ugly cousins. Neither was influenced by each other except for some branches of hapkido that later joined with Aikido and blended. But that is a very specific group and happened way after each was born and thriving.
Dave O.
Gordon Nore
Senior Master
Jong Soo Park used to have a chain of TKD schools in the Toronto area -- I believe he operates out of two locations now.
http://www.jongpark.com/jongsoopark_biography.html
He had ads on television in the early seventies (as did many school operators in that era during the Bruce Lee craze), in which TKD was described as "Korean Karate." I read an interview he gave in the nineties, in which he explained that he was doing exactly that -- promoting Korean arts to people who were likely only familiar with words like, karate, judo, etc.
As someone indicated above, you certainly could call TSD, "Korean Karate," because of its origins and similarities.
True, following the Japanese occupation, the Korean government attempted to merge the 9 kwans. 2 of them refused, the Moo Duk Kwan and Jido Kwan (I believe). The merged kwans were then renamed Tae Kwon Do in an attempt to give Korean martials a more unified identity and provide Korea with a national martial art. So yes, they were merged to form a more "Korean system" and try to eliminate the Japanese influence.
When you start talking about influences, things get much more complex. This is why I was trying to clarify the question. I lived in Korea for a year and trained with several Koreans and depending on the age of the practitioner, you will get much different stories. There are many older Koreans who still hate the Japanese for the attrocities committed during occupation and therefore deny ANY Japanese influence on Korean martial arts. Younger Koreans are starting to embrace the true history. If you did live and train there, then you know about Korean culture and how history works - i.e. much Korean "history" is influenced by the socially acceptable answer. Perfect example, Soo Bahk Do STRONGLY denies any Japanese influence and yet uses both the Taekyoku and Pinan kata as the basis of their art. There is a very clear Japanese influence in many Korean styles.
While it would be better say "mostly closely resembles" as opposed to influenced. It is difficult to deny Japanese influence in Korean martial arts. Even from a common sense perspective, the Japanese occupied the country for almost 40 years, during which time, much of the history and culture was destroyed.
As to the comment: "How can you post this without any basis," I think that it is largely a matter of interpretation and history.
Hapkido was developed by Choi, Yong Sul, who lived in Japan as a boy and studied Daitō-ryū Aiki-jūjutsu. This style was the early forerunner of Aikido. When Choi returned to Korea, he combined the techniques learned in Japan with the striking becoming popular in Korea (Tae Soo Do, Kong Soo Do, the 9 kwans, etc) to form Hapkido.
The problem with much of the Korean history is that the older Koreans (as posted previously) have a great contempt for the Japanese and try very hard to eliminate any reference to Japanese. I met several older Koreans who were VERY hateful toward the japanese still and a conversation on Japanese influences in Korean Martial arts was immediately dismissed. But if you look at the actual histories, it is difficult to deny.
While it is true that OSensei and Choi studied together and developed their own styles - both were of Japanese descent. It really isn't much of a stretch to say that Hapkido was influenced by Aikido when Hapkido's roots are Japanese. It probably could be qualified and worded better - they were both influenced by Daitō-ryū Aiki-jūjutsu. OSensei took the style and made some changes to come to his Aikido and Choi took the style and went a different path.
So, I fail to understand what you mean when you say that I posted something without basis. I feel that the wording may be wrong, but I believe that there is basis in saying that Hapkido has Japanese roots.
The original post is unclear as to whether he is tryign to determine what Japanese styles relate to Korean styles, what Korean styles have Japanese roots, or simply what is Korean Karate? So making a 1:1 comparison is most certainly oversimplifying things.
"Hapkido has Japanese roots."
Very different to many than ""Hapkido is most heavily influenced by Aikido"
""mostly closely resembles" Yes, seems like a small difference but its a huge difference in conveying the message.
Saying Hapkido comes from the same Japanese lineage is very different than saying from its sibling.
Sounds like to you just a different way of putting things, some may say misleading. I appreciate that you do know the trees and just ask that they are presented as such.
Thanks,
Dave O.
Very different to many than ""Hapkido is most heavily influenced by Aikido"
""mostly closely resembles" Yes, seems like a small difference but its a huge difference in conveying the message.
Saying Hapkido comes from the same Japanese lineage is very different than saying from its sibling.
Sounds like to you just a different way of putting things, some may say misleading. I appreciate that you do know the trees and just ask that they are presented as such.
Thanks,
Dave O.
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