Kenpo with weapons?

[Carol]

Most of the Parker Kenpo schools that I have seen incorporate knife/weapons techs when the student is a brown belt, de minimus.

Are there any Kenpo lineages/schools that teach weapons at a significantly earlier stage?

I'm just curious. :asian:

 

[RevIV]

Most of the Parker Kenpo schools that I have seen incorporate knife/weapons techs when the student is a brown belt, de minimus.

Are there any Kenpo lineages/schools that teach weapons at a significantly earlier stage?

I'm just curious. :asian:

we teach weapon defenses at a much earlier stage. In the adult and teen classes they are doing club defensese. or are you talking about techniques where you are training to fight with the knife or club.?
In Peace,
Jesse

 

[Carol]

Thanks for your input, Jesse. I was referring to a little of both.

 

[HKphooey]

Carol,

Most schools start at brown because that is the level at which the "weapon sets" start. But these days many of the schools teach SD techniques at lower belts.

-Wayne

 

[Mcura]

Here's an article by Pete Kautz, of Alliance Martial Arts, on the "hidden" knife art in Kenpo.

http://alliancemartialarts.com/kenpolances.htm

 

[Ray]

Self-defense techniqes against clubs are taught in the first (yellow) belt of the American Kenpo cirriculum (e.g Checking the Storm). Knife and gun techs are taught much later, as previously mentioned.

 

[DavidCC]

In Shaolin kempo, at least where I train, we teach club and knife defenses starting at yellow, and gun defenses starting at Orange.

 

[IWishToLearn]

In the IKCA system, the first "Official" weapon defense is in Brown belt. However, I've found that in every system I've studied (exception was TKD - no real self defense techs in the style I was taught), with only slight modifications or a different point of view, quite a few techniques can be applied to defense against or to be used as a weaponry attack.

 

[Sigung86]

While noodling around with this thread, I did some searching for the book title he mentioned. Further, and apropos of absolutely nothing, I bet you wish you had kept any copy of Kajukenbo books you may have had. Pay attention to the last 4 or 5.

http://www.abebooks.com/servlet/SearchResults?sts=t&y=0&kn=kajukenbo&x=0

 

[Blindside]

While noodling around with this thread, I did some searching for the book title he mentioned. Further, and apropos of absolutely nothing, I bet you wish you had kept any copy of Kajukenbo books you may have had. Pay attention to the last 4 or 5.

http://www.abebooks.com/servlet/SearchResults?sts=t&y=0&kn=kajukenbo&x=0

OMG!

Time to put my copy in plastic! Or maybe I'll just sell it, it really wasn't that great a book.

Lamont

 

[Inverse Falcon]

In my Shaolin Kenpo classes, knife and club defenses are taught in every form (usually one of each in each form). Additional club defenses are taught at yellow belt and up.

My professor also taught Modern Arnis, which is a wonderful compliment to Kenpo.

 

[phoenix]

Most of the Parker Kenpo schools that I have seen incorporate knife/weapons techs when the student is a brown belt, de minimus.

Are there any Kenpo lineages/schools that teach weapons at a significantly earlier stage?

I'm just curious. :asian:

Hi Carol. At my school, we teach club and blade information earlier than brown. Most in the way of coordination type sets, drills, a few simple techniques, we do a lot of stick work in the color belts including techniques. Advanced blade work is usually reserved until Green/Brown.

Sean

 

[MattJ]

Carol -

I tend to look at it this way - we have been learning "weapons" techniques in Parker kenpo from the beginning, pretty much. I had a student ask me why we don't have more weapons techniques in the art, one time. I said, "They're ALL weapons techniques, if you think about it."

*blank look*

I picked up a pair of practice clubs and told him to throw a right roundhouse punch. I did 5 swords with the clubs. I told him to do a straight push, and I did Parting Wings with the clubs. Crashing Wings, Scraping Hoof even, LOL. Now give HIM the clubs, and try with him using clubs for the attacks. You have to modify some things here and there, but you would be surprised (or maybe not) how well they translate.

An interesting experiment if you haven't tried it.

 

[Carol]

Hi Carol. At my school, we teach club and blade information earlier than brown. Most in the way of coordination type sets, drills, a few simple techniques, we do a lot of stick work in the color belts including techniques. Advanced blade work is usually reserved until Green/Brown.

Sean

Thanks so much for your answer Sean :asian: Do you know if thats how AKKI schools normally train or is that more specific to your school? Just curious as I've never had a chance to train at a school in Mr. Mills lineage.

 

[Carol]

Carol -

I tend to look at it this way - we have been learning "weapons" techniques in Parker kenpo from the beginning, pretty much. I had a student ask me why we don't have more weapons techniques in the art, one time. I said, "They're ALL weapons techniques, if you think about it."

*blank look*

I picked up a pair of practice clubs and told him to throw a right roundhouse punch. I did 5 swords with the clubs. I told him to do a straight push, and I did Parting Wings with the clubs. Crashing Wings, Scraping Hoof even, LOL. Now give HIM the clubs, and try with him using clubs for the attacks. You have to modify some things here and there, but you would be surprised (or maybe not) how well they translate.

An interesting experiment if you haven't tried it.

That is interesting Matt. I haven't tried anything like that...it sounds worth doing! Fortunately I have a good collection of padded sticks

 

[Ceicei]

I picked up a pair of practice clubs and told him to throw a right roundhouse punch. I did 5 swords with the clubs. I told him to do a straight push, and I did Parting Wings with the clubs. Crashing Wings, Scraping Hoof even, LOL. Now give HIM the clubs, and try with him using clubs for the attacks. You have to modify some things here and there, but you would be surprised (or maybe not) how well they translate.

An interesting experiment if you haven't tried it.

Intriguing. I'd like to try these out with as many techs possible, and see how they can translate. Would Dance of Death be doable with clubs? **musing**

- Ceicei

 

[dianhsuhe]

In Kara-Ho Kempo students learn kata's with weapons fairly early, Bo, and Sai by blue belt... Defenses against weapons are also began at that rank-

I have "played" around with many of the early techniques in our system and they can be done with weapons... We learn Balisong (Butterfly Knife) and that translates especially well to the self defense techniques taught... (Not real practical since it would be a felony to carry one in CA. but very interesting!)

Great thread!

 

[IWishToLearn]

In my first style (Yasashii Do Martial Arts) we learned our first weapons form for students at Advanced Green Belt (Gokyu-Saijo), which was Gei Kisai modified to be done with the Sai. If you joined the demo team, you learned the form much sooner.

The Bo forms started at Advanced Purple (again exception for demo team members) and the Sword forms were in Black. All of our forms were expected to be done with the batons by Brown belt, and as you learned new forms you were expected to practice with the short stick (10") and the batons.

 

[KenpoDave]

Joe Simonet, of http://www.kifightingconcepts.com says that kenpo is already the most comprehensive knife fighting system on the planet. You just need to put the knives in your hand and begin peeling back the layers.

I do think a little perspective from some more knife oriented arts would be a useful way to start.

 

[arnisador]

Joe Simonet, of http://www.kifightingconcepts.com says that kenpo is already the most comprehensive knife fighting system on the planet. You just need to put the knives in your hand and begin peeling back the layers.

He's already started. See the picture here, where he appears to grab the blade with his own hand. That'll peel back some layers!

It was during this time that Simonet discovered Filipino Kali Escrima and Wing Chun Gung Fu. He also participated in many such seminars including, but not limited to, Jeet Kun Do (JKD), Savate, Tai Chi, Silat, Muay Thai, and Arnis. Thus KI Fighting Concepts emerged.

In the 1990's Mr. Simonet began his formal training in Pentjak Silat Tongkat Serak, Yang Style Tai Chi, and Doce Pares. Simonet is now an 8th degree black belt in Tracy's Kenpo Karate. He has attained 2nd degree level in Grand Master Cacoy Canete's Escrido. He also became Master Chris Petrilli's first black belt student, in 1998. Simonet has since attained 4th level black belt under Chris Petrilli in Doce Pares. He is a certified instructor in Yang Style Tai Chi under Dr. John Candea and a Guru with a 2nd degree black belt in Pentjak Silat Serak.
Mr. Simonet reached black sash level in Wing Chung Gung Fu during the late 1980's.

Sounds like he may have a little bit more than just Kenpo to draw from, then.